Accuracy of Beagled bullet question?

[rayg]

I hope I explain this right as I am curious, but when you beagle a bullet it becomes out of round with two sides the dia of the enlarged/seperated mold and two sides to the actual/original dia. of the mold.
Not only does this make the bullet out of round, but makes the weight of the bullet uneven as the two larger sizes will weigh more because of the extra dia/lead.
Even if you size the mold down, all that does is spread the extra lead/weight along the sides of the bullet still leaving the bullet lopsided as far the weight goes.

Does anyone shoot beagled bullets and if so, are they very accurate considering the above situation and does it have no bearing on the performance of the bullet when fired. Also do you shoot them as they come out of the mold or size them down a bit so they are less lopsided in dia? Ray

[35remington]

Don't worry about it.

The bullet is still balanced. The opposite halves are symmetrical.

Oftentimes this is done so the "bore riding nose" of the bullet is fattened up so it does bore ride.

A beagled bullet that fits is a more accurate bullet than an unbeagled one that does not - especially bore ride designs.

Our group buy in the .360-220 came out undersized on the nose by .004". Beagling it turned three inch groups into one and a half inches at 100.

It's about fit, and if you think about it the bullet still works as it's symmetrical, balanced and better supported.

You may size or not depending upon whether the dimensions are what you desire. All sizing does is reduce the diameter of the widest parts, and doesn't necessarily completely "round it up." My .360" die does not touch part of my beagled .360-220 as the unmodified bullets measure .359" from the mould, and as you can see the die only reduces the widened portion after beagling.

[John Boy]

Ray - My Lyman 378677 (38-55) mold is beagled. Coincidentally, I put 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 meter settings on a new vernier this morning using this bullet. There were no fliers. While getting the settings, even too a few extra shots on all the silhouettes, even the Turkeys. They all went down! :-D
PS: The reloads were 42grs of Original Gunpowder![smilie=1:

[rayg]

35 Remington, you sure answered my question, and you just confirmed it John. Thanks Fellows, Ray

[Nardoo]

I Beagle Lyman 124's, CBE 405's and RCBS 458-405's for my Ruger #1 in 45/70 to .461".

As Beagle told us the bullets somehow come out round - don't ask me how but I know they shoot! My Ruger will keyhole .457" bullets and shoot the same ones beagled to .461" very accurately.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_1236.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_0224Small.jpg

Sorry if you have seen this before.

Nardoo

[Boerrancher]

I need to beagle my 457-350-RF mould, as my old Sharps does not seem to like it very well. It doesn't key hole them, but it doesn't shoot them well either. They Drop from the mould at 460, and that is what the old rifle slugs at. I just have a couple of questions.

1. Where can I find that Aluminum tape?

2. Do I have to use the Loctite to hold the aluminum tape in place?

Yeah I know, it seems silly for someone who has casted for over 30 years now to never have beagled a mould, but I have never had the need until now.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[rayg]

You would think that If the smaller part remains the same as the mold and undersize of the bore size that it would result in loss of accuracy as the bullet is still undersize of what is needed there. Also wouldn't that result in a problem with gas cutting from those undersize sides of the bullet and possible leading.

The reason for my questions on the beagling is that I have beagled the bullets for my 7.7 and 6.5 Jap and shot them and they scatter all over the target at 50 yrs. Some go way left, some go way right etc., nothing consistent. It does the same with both 2400 powder and I4227 powder loads.
The bores on both the Japs are excellent however they run large. .268 on the 6.5mm and .317 on the 7.7 mm.
The bullets drop from the molds at .265-266 and 312-313. And with beagling I brought the two sides up an additional .002-.003. on two sides but the other two sides remained at below the bore sizes.
I am going to try some COW filler in my next load with the beagles to see if that can correct the accuracy problem as the filler may seal the gaps. Ray

The only alterative is to go to larger dia bullets for these rifles but there doesn't seem to be many bullets available that are the sizes needed. I have heard that Lee has a Cruise Missle that is about .267-8 for the 6.5 but I can't find it on their site, Ray

[pdawg_shooter]

I hope I explain this right as I am curious, but when you beagle a bullet it becomes out of round with two sides the dia of the enlarged/seperated mold and two sides to the actual/original dia. of the mold.
Not only does this make the bullet out of round, but makes the weight of the bullet uneven as the two larger sizes will weigh more because of the extra dia/lead.
Even if you size the mold down, all that does is spread the extra lead/weight along the sides of the bullet still leaving the bullet lopsided as far the weight goes.

Does anyone shoot beagled bullets and if so, are they very accurate considering the above situation and does it have no bearing on the performance of the bullet when fired. Also do you shoot them as they come out of the mold or size them down a bit so they are less lopsided in dia? Ray

Kind of hard to believe a lead bullet being pushed down s round barrel by 20,000+ psi could exit in any shape but round, IMHO.

[Bret4207]

Boer Rancher- Go to any hardware and look for aluminum heating duct tape. It's the stuff intended for high heat areas and has a wax paper type backing you peel off. It'll stick by it self and one roll should last you about 15 lifetimes. Oddly, it also works great as duct tape in high heat applications, like wood stove ducting. Who'd a thunk it?!

As for the boolit being out of round- you're giving the boolit a cance to fit the throat better is all. If you're going to do this there are a couple things to watch for- the boolit will be .002-.004 fatter on 2 sides. Thats great unless your sizer takes it back down to undersize. You might have to shoot unsized to get the fit. Also make sure the seating process doesn't "squish" the boolit to undersize dimemnsions.

Rayg-On firing some obturation will take place. How much depends on a number of things. I'd check my boolit diameter after sizing and after loading and see if the boolit is getting hurt somewhere in the process. You might try a .270 design for the 6.5 and an 8mm design for the 7.7. You can size down lot easier than sizing up.

[rayg]

Bret, I just ordered a 8mm LEE .324 mold. The bore of the Japanese 7.7mm I'm planning on using the .324 bullet in mikes to .318 so that bullet should work fine in that rifle. There is a big diference between the bores on my Japanese rifles. The one with the smallest bore mikes out to .314-5, the others run anywhere from .316 to .318.
The beagled bullets just won't work for those rifles with the underside mold I've been using, Ray

[leftiye]

Lapping tends to make boolits bigger across the cavities (from one side to the other on the mold halves), beagling makes them thicker perpendicular to the mold halves line. Suggest anything? Using a reamer modified to ream out one land at a time makes round holes. Also makes it possible to put a nice land in front of the crimp groove.

[rayg]

Lapping tends to make boolits bigger across the cavities (from one side to the other on the mold halves), beagling makes them thicker perpendicular to the mold halves line. Suggest anything? .

Thought of lapping but I would have had to lap from low .313 to .318. Lot of laping. Easier to just buy the bigger mold as I still need the original mold for other rifles, , Ray

[sturf]

I cast for 35 years before I found out about it. Works great. Tape is available from 3-M. Google "Flue Tape". Also from Ace Hardware as their brand. Bought a roll from an Ace dealer on internet.

[IcerUSA]

rayg , have you looked at the Lyman 319XXX mould ? It's a plain base and it has lube grooves like a Loverin and a flat nose . It might size down well for the .318 bore you have or shoot as is , might even be able to size it to.315 for the .313 also .
If you want to try a few just give me a shout , only thing with mine is it has been lapped out a little to make it about .320 - .321 but I think it could be sized to what you could use .

Keith

[35remington]

Just wondering if you have other problems a beagled bullet won't necessarily cure.

I've found with some moulds with more aggressive/numerous venting - like the six cavity Lees - the aluminum tape conforms to the vent lines and holds itself in place pretty well.

After placing the strips on the mould I tap the halves (handles removed) gently with a rubber mallet to seat the strips a little bit better than squeezing the handles alone will do.

[rayg]

Keith, I was going to order the Lee 8mm .324 mould anyway as I want to start reloading for my mauser rifles too.
But I think that bullet may also work in the larger .317-.318 bores of the Japanese rifles I have as we're only talking about a .006 over size lead bullet.
I use the 311413 mould, which sizes to .312 for my 30-06 rifles and those bores run about .308. That makes the bullet about .004 oversize with those rifles and that bullet works great in those rifles.

I've been thinking that as an alternative, I have a LEE .314 bullet sizer that I think I might be able to open up by lapping it to a size big enough to fit those large Japanese rifle bores and at the same time it would size down the .324 bullet.

I think that a perfect bullet size for the large bore Japanese rifles I have should run about .320-321. which is not too far from the .324 bullet dia.

I'm open for any thoughts or suggests on the above, Ray

[Bass Ackward]

After placing the strips on the mould I tap the halves (handles removed) gently with a rubber mallet to seat the strips a little bit better than squeezing the handles alone will do.


Interesting idea. Thanks.

[Bret4207]

You can open those Lee sizers quite easily with al/ox cloth and a steel rod. Just roll it on your thigh. There are several posts about it here. Also, a softer (lead/WW) alloy will usually cast a smaller diameter boolit. I opened a .329 sizer to .332+ (IIRC) in 400 rolls, about 10 minutes.

[rayg]

You can open those Lee sizers quite easily with al/ox cloth and a steel rod. Just roll it on your thigh. There are several posts about it here. Also, a softer (lead/WW) alloy will usually cast a smaller diameter boolit. I opened a .329 sizer to .332+ (IIRC) in 400 rolls, about 10 minutes.

Great info Bret, thanks, Ray