Help -- new caster with .316 Loverin 6 cavity mold from group buy

[jklein_1968]

All,

My casting session went well with the pb projectiles falling at .315 to .316 and at 185 grains. Maybe not all of them picture perfect but no wrinkles, fins or other ill looking stuff either. The alloy was wheel weights.

So I lubed with Lee Liquid Alox. Then I seated over 17.4 grains of 2400 and headed off to the range. My Mosin Nagant M44 with a barrel that slugs at .3145 to .315 was the recipient of the new bullets.

I shot from the 50 yard line and checked the target after the first 10 rounds. I had a very respectable grouping touching with just a small amount of verticle stringing. The second ten on the next bull were ok but not as tight. The last 10 were still on target but nothing to write home about.

I then looked and noticed I had a section of the bayonet that looked like I had electroplated it with lead. :( I dared not look in the bore until I got home to my work bench. I noticed that most of the leading was in the last inch or two near the muzzle and I did not detect any fouling from the breech up.

The load felt good. Is gas checks the answer to the leading problem? Since the fouling was near the muzzle could I have had insufficient lube. Any thougths or advice would be greatly appreciated because this bullet really made the MN 44 shoot great..

PS -- How the *^^*# do you get the lead of the bayonet without removing the bluing? Any labor saving thoughts on getting the lead fouling out of the bore. I have scrubbed with shooter choice lead solvent and it is coming out but is taken elbow grease and patience. I am not much in the patience department :)



Thanks

Jim

[Buckshot]

................Er, you weren't using GC's? And yes, leading or lead flashing toward the muzzle can mean too little lube. If you were NOT using a GC, putting one on may cure all the trouble. Your experience is a pure example of a load that is not exactly right:-P Things begin well, and go aft aglay as you continue. You got 10 pretty good, 10 so-so, and 10 that hurts your eyes.

I'm surprised it did that well with no GC. If things were really bad, your first 10 would have told the tale, or halfway through the 2nd ten for sure. It seems they wanted to work. So if you DON'T want to use a GC, you could back down the load a couple grains and see, or also double or triple TL the slugs. Or maybe even do both.

For the leading in the barrel AND on your bayonet, hie yourself off (or send the little woman :-)) to the grocery store and avail yourself of some things called "Chore Boy" scouring pads. They're pure copper so will not hurt the barrel at all. For the barrel, pull or cut some off and wrap it around a worn, or new if you don't have a worn bristle brush.

For the lead flash on your bayonet just dunk a bit of the pad in bore solvent and scrub the lead flashing off.

...............Buckshot

[jklein_1968]

Buckshot

Thanks for the advice. I will get some gas checks and try the double or triple tumble lube. I will have to pick up some chore boys -- sounds like I might need them until I find the sweet spot between gc, tl and powder charge.

[Blammer]

yea, sounds like you need more lube.

[Shotgun Luckey]

If that is the worst problem you are having, you're doing great for a first try....congratulations!!!

[Bob Krack]

Buckshot
Thanks for the advice. I will get some gas checks and try the double or triple tumble lube. I will have to pick up some chore boys -- sounds like I might need them until I find the sweet spot between gc, tl and powder charge.
J,

Good advice from Buckshot.

In another light, as a young man I remember reading that Thomas Edison interviewed prospective employees over dinner. If the interview-ee spiced his food before tasting, the interview was over - not the dinner, just the interview.

If you try several changes at once you will never know what made the difference.

Just change one thing at a time. In my opinion, just change the lube procedure.

If that doesn't do what you want, then add gas checks - or even if the lube change DOES do what you want, then consider gas checks for even more results (good OR bad).

Just remember, you already have the lube, the powder, the chore boys are just down at the grocery store and the gas checks probably involve a little more running and paying to try.

Hoping to be helpful,

Vic

[jklein_1968]

Vic,

I concur with your points of only adjusting one variable. I have to order gas checks so that will be the last variable. The wife is supposed to bring home chore boys when she returns from town. I will first try the trip tumble lube with the same powder charge. If that solves the problems. I will still try the gas checks just to see what it does to performance.

I think I will have to break down and get a chrono just so I know how much fun I'm having. :)

[Buckshot]

.............I'd think you were well over 1600 fps with that 17.4 gr charge. However a chrono is a super tool to have.

..................Buckshot

[jklein_1968]

Buckshot,

I had the load of 16-20 grains of 2400 recommended to me. I was under the impression that it was going to be in the 1000 fps range. No wonder I need a gc if I'm pushing 1600 fps. I should have known when the recoil thump felt right that I was driving things to hard.

What do you think would be a more appropriate powder charge until I can get some gas checks?

Thanks

[missionary5155]

Welcome JKLEIN
I had to read your post twice... BAYONET ?? I fired my CHICOM SKS with the Bayonet extended and got rid of it right fast... Makes a great windy side tent stake.. kayak holder.
Another inexpensive test would be to try some Water dropped WW.. The extra few Brinels should get that Boolit those couple inches out the barrel. My SKS works just fine with Water Dropped at about that 16-1700 FPS using a 155 Lee Boolit and 1680. My boolits are lubed through a Lyman 450 and I think that has that NRA type lube so that also could be a factor.

[jklein_1968]

Welcome JKLEIN
I had to read your post twice... BAYONET ?? I fired my CHICOM SKS with the Bayonet extended and got rid of it right fast... Makes a great windy side tent stake.. kayak holder.
Another inexpensive test would be to try some Water dropped WW.. The extra few Brinels should get that Boolit those couple inches out the barrel. My SKS works just fine with Water Dropped at about that 16-1700 FPS using a 155 Lee Boolit and 1680. My boolits are lubed through a Lyman 450 and I think that has that NRA type lube so that also could be a factor.


My M44 and T53 both shoot better with the bayonet extended. I remove the lead off the bayonet using the procedure buckshot mentioned. I think I got most if not all out of the bore. My bore light has decided to travel. It does not have legs of its own so must have been kids or the dog that gave it an assist. If it was the kids I might get back. The dog will have since eaten the poor thing.

I hope to get to load up some tomorrow -- I have 30 double tumble lubed. :lovebooli

Thanks for all the advice

[Buckshot]

Buckshot,

I had the load of 16-20 grains of 2400 recommended to me. I was under the impression that it was going to be in the 1000 fps range. No wonder I need a gc if I'm pushing 1600 fps. I should have known when the recoil thump felt right that I was driving things to hard.

What do you think would be a more appropriate powder charge until I can get some gas checks?

Thanks

...........Try 10 grains of Unique.

.............Buckshot

[jklein_1968]

Buckshot

Thanks for the recommendation. I have some loaded @ 10 grns of Unique. I should get to the range this afternoon.

[jklein_1968]

Buckshots recommended load of 10 grains of unique works good. I took some of the .316 loverin projectiles weighing ~185 grains over the 10 grains of unique to the range today. I kept all 21 of the shots in a six inch area on the target. I had a couple of nice grouping within that set.

The chronograph revealed:

HI = 1300
LO = 1265
Avg = 1282
Extreme Spread = 35


I finally got the gas checks from Midway. I put these on the same projectile, then double lubed with Lee liquid alox. I lovingly placed the projectile on top of 16 grains of 2400. The resultant grouping was slightly better than that described above.

The Chronograph revealed:


HI = 1539
LO = 1493
Avg = 1516
Extreme Spread = 46


Nothing went horribly awry and I did not notice any lead fouling. I have so far resisted the urge to give the bore a good scrubbing. Things keep improving so I guess I'm on the right path.

[Buckshot]

.............Was this at 50 yards? If so, 6 inches isn't too shiny but if it's an improvement then it's a move in the right direction. WIth an iron sighted rifle I like to 1-1/2" at 50 yards. How did you put the GC's on?

...................Buckshot

[dromia]

Ed Harris's Cast Bullets in Military Rifles article is here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425


You might want to give that a read.

[jklein_1968]

.............Was this at 50 yards? If so, 6 inches isn't too shiny but if it's an improvement then it's a move in the right direction. WIth an iron sighted rifle I like to 1-1/2" at 50 yards. How did you put the GC's on?

...................Buckshot


The range was 50 yards. The 21 rounds that were @ 10 grains of Unique had 3 groupings of 5 or 6 rounds that were within the 1-1/2" range. (with some of the holes overlapping each other) I was having a little trouble keeping a consistent point of aim and the trigger on this M44 is a wee bit rough but something I should get the feel for after another range trip or two. I think that the load and the rifle are working and I , the shooter, need some practice and coaching.

The gas checks I put on by pushing them on the bench top and then using the Lee factory crimp die to crimp the gas check to as close to .316 as I could. I am not resizing the bullets and using them as cast. Someone had mentioned touching the base of the bullet in gorilla glue but I did not try that. Any thoughts and recommendations would be appreciated.

Still room for improvement but things are moving in the right direction and I'm having a lot of fun.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and patience.

[2muchstuf]

I use gorilla glue in the woodshop, great stuff....on wood.
It foams and expands as it cures, pushes things appart.
Need clamps with this stuff. Just can't imagine clamping boolits.
I've never glued GC's but if I ever do ,I think I'll try something like crazy glue.
2

[TAWILDCATT]

I use Red Dot at 13 gr in 30/06 with 311291 and GC.1680 fts.I use that in all military exp 6.5. last time I used Lee 312-160 with lee lube all over.50 yrds 5 touching,1903(dated 1914).:coffee:[smilie=1::Fire: