Why I buy rather than cast (but am I the only one?).

[straightshooter1]

A comment on the thread about 8X57 hardcast loads got my attention. Someone wondered why one would purchase cast boolits rather than making them. I am pretty sure I am in the minority but I have reasons and wondered if others do/feel the same.

I shoot mostly rifles. I would never consider casting for handguns as the boxes of 500 commercial cast are so cheap as to effectively preclude spending the time. But rifles are different. Why would someone (me) not cast for rifles?

1. I shoot 223, 6.5 Swedish, 6.5 Japanese, 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser, 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 308, 30'06, 303 British, 38-55 and 45-70. With the exception of the 223, 303 and the 6.5 Jap all are generally cast boolit guns.

The 223 is fired in an AR, the 303 belonged to Arthur Hale (as in Parker-Hale) and is an old P14 Match Rifle with a not so great bore for cast loads and I can't find a decent load for the 6.5 Jap.

Nonetheless, that's a lot of different boolits, more time to cast and less to shoot. More molds, etc. are needed.

I could use some of the same boolits and, perhaps, size them to cover the various 30s (i.e. .310-.313) but time is still a big factor.

2. Price vs. Time. The cost of commercial cast boolits is still generally very much below condoms. There are exceptions-one fellow I used for years has raised his price for 100 190 grain .310s to within $1.50 of what I can buy Sierra 168 Match Kings for, but most sellers are relatively reasonable. So the relatively modest expenditure for commercial cast boolits is acceptable in order to save my time. I plan to buy my next ones from the fellow up in Alaska because he is a member here.

Ultimately, it is a question of how I want to spend my spare time, casting or shooting. I work too many hours per week, am in Church when the doors are open, live in urban Florida and have less time and opportunity to shoot than I'd like. If I was retired (somewhere between 6 and 21 months left before I pull the plug) I might feel differently assuming I have more time. But until then, I will be a purchaser.

So, am I the only one here who buys rather than casts his own?

[grumble]

Yup. <GGG>

[felix]

The only time I will purchase boolits is if they are going to be for down and dirty, blow them up Harry, style of shooting. The boolits must be sized large and ready to shoot, and cheaper than what I am willing to make them for. However, it is difficult to find this kind of deal anywhere. ... felix

[475/480]

I started casting because shipping was so high at the time.


Sean

[Junior1942]

So, am I the only one here who buys rather than casts his own?Nope, I do both. In fact, I just ordered 500 #323471 at 215 gr w/gascheck & lube from Wayne Doudna. In the door cost = $62.70.

[BruceB]

SS1,sir;

Seems to me that you have thought through the situation, and made the decision which YOU think best fits YOUR circumstances. In such case, who are we to second-guess you?

Now on the OTHER hand (didja guess that was coming??) a single Lee mould for less than $20 can supply almost endless entertainment, and it DOES get dark at night in Florida, so you can't shoot 24 hours a day....you could spend some evening hours casting and loading...

Careful selection of bullet design(s) (we would help) would allow all those .30-calibers of yours to be fed very nicely with only one or two moulds. There would be some expense in getting a melting pot and lube-sizer, but those costs are very quickly recouped by casting virtually free bullets.

Anyway, retirement should give ample opportunity to follow this interest. Be careful, because it can really get a grip on you!

[454PB]

When I started casting 35 years ago, there was no source for commercially cast bullets. There were a few local guys that sold them, and they were terrible bullets. In my area, it was even tough to find molds and sizers.

Today, there are excellent commercial cast bullets available. I see nothing wrong with buying cast bullets. I always used casting as a form of entertainment and relaxation. If my work didn't allow that extra time, I'd buy them too.

I make my own .22 caliber jackets and jacketed bullets, using a set of Corbin dies. That is a prime example of time/cost comparison. It takes me over an hour for each 100 bullets, and that means my time is worth about $5 an hour. I made way more than that when I retired.

[Herb in Pa]

I don't cast for pistol calibers anymore. My pistol shooting is not competetive and really informal and I can't see casting for a fullauto either. I have a local source for commercially cast pistol bullets, it's just not worth the time and effort for me.

I would not consider shooting commercially cast rifle bullets, I'm just too finicky (read anal) about my rifle shooting. I don't really plink with my rifles and do most of my rifle shooting from the bench. I enjoy casting and experimenting with rifle loads and consider it time well spent and educational .

[straightshooter1]

I have been quite impressed with the quality of those I've purchased. The ones I referenced in my original post were really accurate. I have used a couple of others, too and never had any bad ones. If I do my part and depending on the rifle they will shoot as well as MatchKings. Here in TampaBay, at the Wyoming Antelope Club (the only game in town) we can load one round at a time and all are fired from the bench.
If I go down south of Sarasota there is a range where you can shoot off- hand and east of that one is another, open a few days a week where you can shoot off-hand and at greater distances than 100 yards. Last time I was there is was 500 yards and I believe it has almost doubled now.
Another fellow, very experienced, cast some of the 165 RCBS 30s and, with 14.5 grains of AA5744, they shot the same. (I had never tried such a light load, recoil about like a 22 magnum, sub-one inch accuracy if I don't mess the shot up).

[Paul B]

Normally, I cast my own, but I've gotten so far behind for .45 ACP that I've been "forced" to go to a commercial source. They sell cast bullets "by the pound." at one place and they're not a bad bullet at all. They've been very accurate in my .45s. The prices are very reasonable, and now I think I know who's got all the wheel weights in Tucson sowed up.
As many .38s, .357s. .44s and .45s as I have to load, methinks I'll be paying them a call after the holidays.
Rifle bullets however are strictly cast by me.
Paul B.

[Kragman71]

Straight Shooter,
I recently threw in the towel;unloaded 60 years of collected moldsand all the pots and pans and do-dads that go with them.
I did keep my custom molds for PPB's,because PPB's cannot be bought,as yet.
Just in case-.
now there's two of us.Who is your favorite supplier of quality 30 caliber rifle bullets;cast,plain base and GC.
Frank

[straightshooter1]

I used R&R for several years, but their price is now $18 per hundred plus shipping. Leadheads and Bonus are the two I use now. Bonus has an 8mm and a 38-55 bullet I like and both of which shoot really well. Leadheads has the 165 RCBS that everyone seems to like. I always get gas checks. For 45-70s I have used Mid-Kansas and they are plain based for BPCR and also work well with 4198 in Marlin lever guns.
As I mentioned earlier, my next order will be from our Alaskan member Bullshop, but it will be a little while before I need any stock.

Bob

[Leftoverdj]

I quit buying cast bullets about 25 years ago because of fluctuating supply and frequently miserable quality. Had I had a steady source of satisfactory bullets, I might not have done it.

In the years since, I have acquired a good selection of moulds, sizers, etc., and a stockpile of at least a ton of alloy. I'm not dependent on anyone else's whims on designs, diameter, or hardness. There are no six month waiting lists for my bullets and no sudden price increases.

[9.3X62AL]

I got into casting to service handgun calibers that no one was making decent component boolits for at the time (1980)--the 32 S&W Long. The products of these efforts were more accurate than any factory load, or any load concocted with the poor component boolits. That's called a "clue" where I used to work, so I expanded the casting bit into the 38/357 and 45 ACP. Same outcome. Then came the 30-30 WCF, and DAMN--those 311291's out-shot the redcoated pretenders--convincingly. By 1986, I was on board and fully addicted.

I have bought store-bought boolits all along, usually when I got too busy to cast and needed boolits. I prefer the home-poured critters though, and now that work isn't a distraction I shouldn't have to buy any more.

[Buckshot]

............I believe for the most part that you can select commercial casters who do an excellent job of casting, and supply a superb product. That is as long as what they offer fits what you're shooting. But I suppose you wouldn't use them if they didn't.

For people who shoot mega quantities of cast lead, like active cowboy action shooters shooting nmatches and for practice, just reloading what they shoot in a week can be very time consuming. When the probation dept was going to be placed under the Sheriff's dept, and all the deputy probation officers were going to be armed my wife had to take a course and shooting, gun safety, etc was a large part.

She was going to use a M10 S&W 38 Special. I went into casting big time with only a 2 cav Lee for a 148gr WC for practice ammo. Then I had to reload it and naturally used a Dillon. I had 1000 rounds all loaded and stacked on teh counter in the utility room. She'd come home from work, grab her pistol and 2-4 boxes of ammo and go out to where we shot, and she'd practice (we lived in the country then).

In less then a week I could see that 1000 rounds wasn't going to last very long. I also realized there was no way I could cast and reload to keep up with her so I broke down and bought 2,000 commercial cast WC's. I could tell when I was in over my head!

However, casting my own for me is something I just enjoy doing. Sometimes I enjoy it MORE then other times :D, but time spent away from the boob tube is time well spent IMHO. I like being able to go to the mould cabinet and pulling out a set of blocks for something, should the mood strike. I like having that freedom of choice, but also the ability for when the whim strikes.

For me the actual casting process is creative time. Of course I still also change my own oil, and mow my own lawn. Both are oddities here in So. Calif. For a person who likes to shoot alot and knows you don't HAVE to have slugs costing 18 cents each, and with time constraints attached then commercial boolit casters are the way to go for sure.

.............Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

There is no problem with buying cast if it meets an individuals needs. This is just another segment of the population in Cast Boolit Ville. It usually generates as many self casters as it turns away from cast. So at least it gets people to try. I might even do it .... if .... it .... wasn't for one thing.

Each year there are several folks not familiar with cast boolits need to line in rifles and we let them use the range. Our range has a protection berm 30 yards off to the side and back about 15 yards so observers can see the target and radio back changes. Guys like to hang out there so they can BS and don't have to wear ear plugs. My turn came and I shot three times to verify since I changed scopes this season. On the third shot they called back for a cease fire. It seems that they were being pelted with earth and rock from behind the target that far away.

I said I was finished and asked them to retrive the target for me that I would be up. All the chatter was about the power and crack / smack on the target. The guess was that I was shooting a 378 Wby or something. Then guys saw the target and the chatter turned to the group. When I laid a shell on the target, you could have heard a pin drop. Priceless!

All because I am in full control of my casting process. Now a couple of guys are asking questions too since I have three deer hanging. Priceless.

[Wayne Smith]

I started casting because I got a rifle that it was hard to find bullets for, and I am cheap enough to have already been sick of paying for .44 cal. roundballs of pure lead. Started casting for those two and discovered it's lots of fun in it's own right. Money don't grow on trees around here, and I've more projects than money, so I buy unusual bullets that I won't use many from Bullshop - beautiful .415 350's for the .405 Win, by the way - at least until I get ahead enough to prioritize a mold for maybe 50 bullets a year. I don't expect I'll get there anytime soon!

[Char-Gar]

That question is sorta like going to a woodworking board and asking the folks why they don't just buy their furniture, shelving, etc. etc, etc.

[txpete]

I started casting over 30 years ago because what was forsale was soft cheap bore leading crap :D .
I still cast for all my rifles and handguns,I enjoy casting its fun (above 32F) and just can't bring myself to pay someone for something I can make better.
now that I am retired I have lots of time.
pete

[PatMarlin]

I cast becasue I've always been into "build it yourself", and have no hesitation in buying quality tools, etc., but cringe at buying a box of shells, or condom bullets when they go so quickly.

Eventhough it will take some years to pay for my investment, I've got years, and casting is fascinating. Specially gettin' your game with em'... :lovebooli

I love the challenge, and unlimited experiments that can be done with cast boolits. I think it takes a certain type of individual. A person that has the gumption to be patient and learn a craft.

I don't think there are many youngsters learning this now, becasue of how they are raised these days...with "Buy it now", instant gratification and the constant need for stimulation from something like the boob tube.

[Bret4207]

I'll buy pre-cast boolits if they're on sale or something weird I never saw before. And, I also have a fond spot for those Hornady swaged .314 SWC jobbies that come 500 to the box for like $ 12.50 on sale. But, I like to make stuff myself and that means I cast. A 6 banger Lee makes a pile of boolits pretty quick. Most of the commercial cast I've see runs a bit hard IMHO, which is nice 'cuz I've been known to melt them down and use them to enrich my alloy. I really had no use for a 9mm truncated cone anyway, so they got the melt. I have no problem with guys using them, I think it's great you're at least shooting and reloading and keeping someone else in business is a good thing.

Someday I may look into swaging my own jacketed stuff, but until then I'll keep Hornady, Sierra and Nosler in business.

[9.3X62AL]

Bret's text is a pretty close rendition of my take on the subject. I do like those Hornady swaged 32 caliber SWC's for sure--at least, up to 800 FPS. I'm using a LOT less of the red-coated critters in handguns, though. Fewer of them in rifles as well.

[Willbird]

Well for me, I do not have tons of free time, but on the other hand I can double or triple and maybe even quadruple the amount of shooting I can do for $100.00 if I cast my own boolits, I have yet to find commercial cast boolits that were worth a hoot, I do belive you that they are out there.

Every time I even look at the idea the shipping kills it, I wish Zero was still in business because I would buy some HBWC if they were, they used to have decent deals if you bought enough, and I could have driven to where they were located :-(

Bill

[fecmech]

I bought some 9mm 147's from Kead bullets to try early in the summer and they worked out well. I shoot a whole lot in the summer and did not want to take the time to cast. After the initial trial batch I ordered 3k of the 147's. Kead uses the Flat Rate box to ship so the total was $98.00 for 3 k of bullets. Not as cheap as casting my own but when those vicious steel spinners are comming at you it gives you more time load and shoot. Nick

[Newtire]

I agree with most everyone on the fact(s) that 1. Time is precious 2. This hobby is fun. 3. Making your own is more satisfying. I find spare time here & there & build up a pretty good supply eventually. If I didn't have the time or space/resources, I suppose I would buy the bullets and go back to the B.C. (before casting) days when condoms were the only thing I knew about. Then it was truly this board of shooters (actually from "Shooters.com") who put the facets on the diamond-in-the-rough" and showed me how to do it. thing is, I'm still catching up. Lots of experiments to go! Gives me something to relax with.

[Vegas Vince]

I have not casted in several years, but started again in the last year or so. I enjoy the time experimenting. I shoot five or six times a week and I am cheap! So the cost saving is important.

[The Nyack Kid]

I bought a box of CPB .459 420 grn LFN just before i found the old site . It didnt take me long (unlike the usual ) to figger out that I could make my own Boolits that were just as good if not better that those CPBs for about the cost of three boxes of them . Plus i could make my own lube to boot.

[Marc2]

Started casting when I got into big bore single actions and contenders.
A box of 100 435 grain .511 bullets from Cast Performance costs around $40 with shipping. If I shoot 2500 of the 500 linebaugh in a year (just over 200 per month) the cost is around $1000. I could pay for a very nice casting set up with the savings from the first year, in that caliber alone, even if I could find the bullets at half the price. Throw in the 475 linebaugh, the 454, the 45-70 and heavy 45 colt bullets and you can see the substantial savings for a high volume shooter.
I agree with the post above. Cast at night. Heck, the flux keeps the bugs away.

Marc In VA.

[Blackwater]

I started casting way back when I was in college to feed a .45 ACP, a .357 and a .44. Shot tons of wheelweights, which I used to get for free back then. Spent most all my spare time casting, loading and shooting. School plus a job kept me busy, but I still shot about 35,000 rds. a year my last two years of college. That was including jacketed, cast, rifle and pistol, but most of it was cast myself, with bullets bought only when I really needed to in order to shoot.

What got me back into casting again is getting my BPCR. In that, it's really crucial to have a good bullet, and it's got to be lead. You just can't get a "perfect bullet" for those unless you cast your own. So, I began trying to learn to cast those "perfect bullets," and thanks largely to this board, I HAVE learned a LOT. Still working on the "perfect" part, but danged if I'm not threatening it seriously.

This, then, along with tales of hunting with cast bullets, has spurred me to start investigating casting for ALL my rifles and pistols again. I've found it really DOES matter, too, if you want nearly perfect bullets and really great accuracy. It's been a bit of a revelation to me, really.

Also, now that most of my deer hunting is at shorter ranges, I figure a cast bullet loaded properly ought to do most anything I'll want to do in that field as well. I'm not there yet. Mostly just in the planning stages, really, but .... a man's got to have SOMETHING to work toward, no?

I personally just have no interest in buying my bullets, but .... the reality is that once I DO get my loads worked out, it looks like I very well may HAVE to buy some of the better ones so my shooting time is maximized, and I really DO need to shoot more.

I think it's all a balancing act, and this will vary for each of us according to our needs and situations. I did learn long ago, though, to never, NEVER EVER get rid of good scopes, reloading dies, or casting stuff. I kept all that I had, and am now very glad I did. Didn't cast much for probably 15 years or more, but now that I'm a much better caster, I'm back at it whenever I can, and enjoying it MUCH more than I had before. Previously, I'd mostly cast just to get "free bullets." Now, it's for a specific purpose, which is accuracy and/or performance in individual guns. I think I'm going to wind up with at least two rifles dedicated nearly exclusively to cast bullets - the Moisen and the No. 4, Mk I. Maybe an '03 Springfield, too. I'm really sorta' back where I was, wanting "free bullets," but ONLY if they'll shoot really well, and that's the key to my own personal raison d'etra in this casting ... or my re-entry maybe I should say. I also recognize a need to get back to practicing my offhand shooting, and I can shoot in my back yard if the noise level is low, out of simple respect and consideration for a good and valued neighbor who louder shots would disturb. Cast should fill that bill as well. I also think light cast loads that will let my 6 yr. old grandson shoot some of my "big guns" will be a very neat thing, too. Gotta' get 'em started young, ya' know? The humbling thing is it looks like he's going to be just as good a shot as his Dad was, so I'll have TWO genertations outshooting me now! I'll enjoy every minute of it, too!

If commercials will perform, and saves time for shooting, ain't a thang wrong wid dat, and if it allows more trigger time, well ... I can surely identify with THAT! More power to ANYONE who can do more shooting of ANY kind, whatever the source or type or motivation. A buddy's shooting Oregon Trails, and is resistant to getting back into casting, but I think he's hooked and just isn't aware of it ... yet. Special purposes will likely require casting for most of us for a long, long time, I think.

Also, with politics being what they are now, it's awfully reassuring to know that with a large powder and primer supply on hand, I can shoot a LOT of bullets if they ever do something that will interfere with our ammo supply. That ain't notin' to sneeze at, either. Wish it was but .... well, you know. Just listen to the damocraps talk on the TV! That's a final arbiter for me, and for many others as well. With a large supply of black and a flinter, all I really need is lead and a mould. Call me paranoid if ya' wanna', but it ain't paranoia if they really ARE after us .... and they ARE!

[PatMarlin]

Darn Blackwater..

Why'd you go and tell you had them powders and flinters, cause them democraps are gonna come for you first for sure?.. :mrgreen:

[Blackwater]

I don't really think they'll do that in my time, but ... you never know. Old timers usta' stock up on the NECESSITIES, and I still think we "moderns" might do well to remember some of their ways. Just makes good sense.

Then too, I remember when MLK was killed, and there was serious talk (and rumors of some actual instances) of riots and blacks shooting things up. Thinking "It can't happen here" is the BEST way to ensure that sooner or later, it WILL do just that!

Life's never been fair or easy or .... you know. And looking around, I just see a whole lotta' folk that I don't trust if times ever got bad, whatever the reason for causing it. Survival is ... well, it's kinda' important.

Besides, it's a darn good excuse to get MORE! Of what? Whatever! [smilie=1:

[PatMarlin]

Life's never been fair or easy or .... you know. And looking around, I just see a whole lotta' folk that I don't trust if times ever got bad, whatever the reason for causing it. Survival is ... well, it's kinda' important. [smilie=1:

I know exatly how you feel, and I totally agree of course. That's why I got out of the city. I realised full on this year that we are on our own, and I'd rather have it that way, if need be.

It's a god given birthright of ours- that second amendment, and mainstream America will not roll over.. :wink:

[FISH4BUGS]

2. Price vs. Time. Ultimately, it is a question of how I want to spend my spare time, casting or shooting.
So, am I the only one here who buys rather than casts his own?

I enjoy the entire process from beginning to end....scrounging wheel weights.......smelting and alloying.....making ingots....sorting brass....buying moulds.....casting (Hensley & Gibbs 10 cavity and 6 cavity moulds mostly)....size and lube (Star sizer)...prepping brass....reloading on a Dillon 550....shooting subguns, pistols and revolvers....each piece is just as much a part of the entire process as any other. But I HAVE bought some cast bullets on occasion.
I shoot a TON of full auto.....380, 9mm and 45 auto. I enjoy creating the ammo for my submachine guns and shooting the daylights out of them....
I see each part of the process as just one piece of my hobby.....and besides....NOBODY makes bullets as good as I do.....
That's why they call it a HOBBY. What works for you doesn't work for everyone.