70-150 cartridge. Ever heard of this beast?!

[Kev18]

I was wondering if anyone ever heard of this cartridge? It was designed for the 1887 shotguns. I tried to compare it to a slug, but sadly a 1oz slug is only 435 grains. So it cant compare...:-( Slugs are to small, back in the day they had crazy ideas!

Id like to try loading a brass 12 gauge shell with this load, but i dont have a huge 70cal ball.
https://i.imgur.com/D5yTCnr.jpg

[Drm50]

I have seen articles on this cartridge. It was suppose to be dreamed up by Winchesters son and they only made a few to humor him before it was dropped.

[Kev18]

I have seen articles on this cartridge. It was suppose to be dreamed up by Winchesters son and they only made a few to humor him before it was dropped.

I can imagine the recoil would be insane. I can't see molds for anything that big.

[cwtebay]

According to some experts, there were a couple of prototypes made for the cartridge. It's a necked down brass 12 gauge shell. Dimensions vary according to the source. There is/ was a gunmaker who made some functional examples a few years ago that are cool to look at but would likely require a gun bearer at the range with the barrel weight. But yes, they were likely only a novelty, with a few cartridge boards containing examples for gun shop patrons to gawk at and wonder about.

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[Kev18]

Well they were made for 1887's that had 6 inches of rifling apparently. So Its quite a light gun for that big a cartridge.

[lar45]

The modern 1887 is supposed to be a fairly strong gun, maybe they had thoughts of a 700 NE light in a lever gun.
I've got an 1887 and a 24" 12 ga rifled blank. I think it would make an interesting combination.
A more practical setup would probably be to have the barrel reamed and threaded for screw in choke tubes. Then use an extended rifled choke tube.

[Jedman]

Should be able to make the brass from 50 BMG as many others have.

Jedman

[northmn]

I had a Brown Bess musket copy for a while that used a 715 ball which would weigh around 500 grains, don't remember exactly the weight. With about 100 grains of powder it would destroy gongs set up by clubs for plinking. Some that were wrapped on chains would wrap a couple of times. Even heavy loaded rifles using maxi ball and that sort of thing would not come close. 150 grains of powder would have been very uncomfortable. Using conical slugs weighing in at what they claim would make it effective but it would be brutal. Rifling would make it worse.

The old 600 Nitro was made in heavy rifles of up to and around 20 pounds or so. Some lighter. 900 grain slug at 1900 fps. Of course when it was used generally someone else was hired to carry it.

DEP

[Gavetta]

working with single shot shotgun.going to roll crimp however cutting down 50bmg brass is brilliant.thanks

[lar45]

The 50bmg brass will need a rim on it.
For the 12ga from hell project, I came up with a way to put a solid rim on it. I turned the rim off flush with the extractor groove. Then turned a thick brass washer out of round stock, drilled the center to slide over the 50bmg base, then beveled one side to match up with the top of the extractor groove.
I soldered the washer in place, then turned off everything that wasn't a 12ga rim. The other guys cut threads, 5/8 I think, to put the washer on.

[country gent]

Having read several times about it and seeing it listed in Cartridge conversions for reloaders I used the dimensions given to turn up a wooden dowel dummy. It is an interesting looking round. The .700 dia slug is a bullet not a round ball would probably be about 2 calibers long

[Kev18]

Id like to shoot one but in my 1887 smoothbore. I have an original shotgun like they had back in the day. It was made in 1888. I dont want to buy 50 bmg brass just for a fun time. I have brass 12 gauge shells, just no projectile that big.

[moosemike]

It was Winchesters attempt at a Paradox gun. The major Gun makers in London were having some success at the time selling Paradox guns to hunters and adventurers headed to Africa.

[longbow]

According to my Cartridges of the World the 70-150 was made using necked 12 ga. brass hulls so easy to do if you want to try it. Not quite sure why they would bother necking it down a little rather than just using full bore 12 ga. boolits in a rifled barrel but what do I know?

I could understand a small amount of necking down to suit a 0.730" boolit since the brass hulls are thinner than paper hulls but why down to .70"?

There's always this route if you haven't seen the thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?379005-12-Gauge-from-hell

except you'd want to stick with BP in an 1887.

I've loaded up to 110 grs. of BP under a 0.690" RB in a single shot 12 ga. They are fun to shoot and recoil is not bad at all. Lots of smoke and fire!

Longbow

[edp2k]

Years ago, when this round was discussed, many knowledgeable sources did some research and came to the conclusion
that this round was a fiction/hoax created solely for the original cartridge conversion boards,
which had actual cartridges fixed to a board (i.e. not just pictures).

Kind of like the Fiji mermaid :)

[Kev18]

According to my Cartridges of the World the 70-150 was made using necked 12 ga. brass hulls so easy to do if you want to try it. Not quite sure why they would bother necking it down a little rather than just using full bore 12 ga. boolits in a rifled barrel but what do I know?

I could understand a small amount of necking down to suit a 0.730" boolit since the brass hulls are thinner than paper hulls but why down to .70"?

There's always this route if you haven't seen the thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?379005-12-Gauge-from-hell

except you'd want to stick with BP in an 1887.

I've loaded up to 110 grs. of BP under a 0.690" RB in a single shot 12 ga. They are fun to shoot and recoil is not bad at all. Lots of smoke and fire!

Longbow

Here, I made a video of me with some HOLY BLACK. I wanted to empty out my shells for smokeless :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q44ReBeqK2M
I have other videos on oldies too.

[Kev18]

Years ago, when this round was discussed, many knowledgeable sources did some research and came to the conclusion
that this round was a fiction/hoax created solely for the original cartridge conversion boards,
which had actual cartridges fixed to a board (i.e. not just pictures).

Kind of like the Fiji mermaid :)

I looked it up in The Winchester Book and they said it was a round the tried just as an experiment but gave up on it because the recoil was insane.

[John Taylor]

There was an article many yeas back that said two 1885s were made in this caliber and both went to Africa. It also said the thread diameter was larger to hold the bigger diameter cartridge. Also several sources say there were six 1887 made in the 70-150. I can't verify any of this but it's fun to imagine. I was thinking of making an 1897 in 70-150 but maybe not use that much powder. Forsyth designed rifling for a high velocity muzzle loader using 1/4 turn in the length of the barrel and lots of powder. The 72 caliber would use 200 grains of powder. I made several in 62 caliber with 1 in 104" twist which was supposed to take 180 grains of powder with a round ball. I shot one with 120 grains of powder and it had quite a bit of recoil, I can only guess at how much it would hurt with more powder. A 12 gauge round ball weighs 1.250 ounce and is not too bad in my 72 caliber pistol with 30 grains of powder.

[PBlover429]

No recoil at all ------ compared to a 2 bore rifle !

[Nazgul]

I have one of these rounds, not an original. If I remember right I got it on ebay before they went NY liberal. Nice discussion piece.

Don

[Freischütz]

When the new production 1887s began a fellow was offering a fully rifled barrel conversion to 70-150. Wonder if there were any takers.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
This I do know... 135 grains 2F under a .685 RB shot from our Fox B with a .0035 choke in the 30 inch barrels was all the fun I needed. That formed the velocity baseline (1545 fps) for working up smokeless loads.
Mike in Peru

[Kev18]

Good evening
This I do know... 135 grains 2F under a .685 RB shot from our Fox B with a .0035 choke in the 30 inch barrels was all the fun I needed. That formed the velocity baseline (1545 fps) for working up smokeless loads.
Mike in Peru

Who makes a round ball that big?

[missionary5155]

Howdy Kev
I think this one is a Lyman. You can get .735 also and several in between. Muzzleloaders.com have some for sale off and on. Then there is that "E" place we do not mention that can be a good source.
Jeff Tanner used to make any size desired but alas he has ceased his fine offerings.
Up above in "Castings for Shotguns" there are some molds available off and on....

If I was up north I would probably have any size you might desire as between my dad's stash and mine we probably have got near every size we came across. Well only up to 1.2" anyway.
Mike in Peru

[LIMPINGJ]

Jeff Tanner molds are still in business. I received an email that James his son is carrying on the business.

[Kev18]

What would be better to run a big bullet like that: Doing the same thing as a slug and putting it in a wad OR getting a bigger bullet and loading it up like a rifle?

[Good Cheer]

Think I'll stick with the .696 bore musket and minie balls!