Pure linotype 9mm bullets

[ThinkOutsideTheBox]

Hi everyone, this is the first time I posted here but definitely not the first post I've read :p

I recently got a ton (figuratively, not literally) of pure linotype from a friend who was cleaning out his place. Since he doesn't reload or even own a gun, I decided to take it off him and turn all of it into some pure linotype bullets and they actually came out beautifully from the Lee 125 grain .356 mold. This is the first time I actually cast anything out of PURE linotype, so the question is, will these need to be treated any differently than the wheelweight bullets I usually cast? I'm assuming these will definitely need to be sized, but would the load need to be different from wheelweight bullets of the same size?

And yeah, I realize this was probably a waste of linotype, but since it was free, the experiment was too hard to pass up :grin:

[tazman]

As long as they fit the barrel properly, you won't have any trouble, as long as you aren't relying on obduration to seal the barrel.
No need to change your load because of the difference in alloy.

[Outpost75]

Linotype makes wonderful, well filled out, hard bullets if those are what you want.

They will work great for full-charge 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP handgun, and GC rifle loads.

They will not expand, but shatter nicely against steel targets and penetrate soft targets well.

No reason not to use the stuff. But if you want to stretch it to go farther, these mixing ratios may help:

Linotype-plumber's lead blends are ideal for most bullet casting and enable excellent fill-out with good strength and predictable repeatability using simple weight ratios which can be produced at moderate cost. You can estimate the hardness of your blend easily:

LinoPounds(22)+LeadPounds(5) / TotalPounds = EstBHN

A 50-50 linotype-lead blend at 13.5 BHN is slightly softer than commercial hardball or Lyman No.2 alloy. (22)+(5) /2 = 13.5

A 1:2 linotype-lead blend at "about 10.5 BHN" approximates 1:20 alloy and is well suited for revolver and black powder cartridge "smokeless" applications. (22)+2(5) /3 = 10.6 BHN

A 1:4 linotype-lead blend at 8.5 BHN approximates the hardness of 1:30 alloy and is best for black powder cartridges, in subsonic, smokeless revolver loads, or with plain based rifle bullets below 1300 fps and is satisfactory up to 1700 fps with gas checks in rifles for hollow-point hunting applications. (22)+4(5) /5 = 8.5 BHN

A 1:5 linotype-lead blend at 8 BHN approximates 1:40 alloy and is the frugal shooters best bang for the buck to make your alloy go far as possible in revolver, cowboy loads, black powder cartridge, and subsonic hollow-point hunting applications. (22)+5(5) / 6 = 8 BHN

Similarly, Linotype and Wheelweight blends, to estimate hardness:

[Lino-Pounds(22) + WW-pounds(12)] / TotalPounds = BHN

1:10 linotype to wheelweights 1(22) +10(12) = 142/11 = 12.9 BHN

1:5 linotype to wheelweights: 1(22) + 5(12) = 82 /6 = 13.6 BHN

1:4 linotype to wheelweights: 1(22) + 4(12) = 70 / 5 = 14 BHN

1:3 linotype to wheelweights: 1(22) + 3(12) = 58 / 4 = 14.5 BHN

1:2 linotype to wheelweights: 1(22) + 2(12) = 46 / 3 = 15 BHN

1:1 linotype to wheelweights: 1(22) + 1(12) = 34 / 2 = 17 BHN

[Conditor22]

ThinkOutsideTheBox, welcome to CB. Judging from your handle you'll fit right in here.
If you decided to start casting to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more. :bigsmyl2:
Casting boolits (lead bullets) properly is a science, once you know the basics, not a hard science.

many people cast their boolits tooooo hard, this chart will give you an idea of ideal hardnesses
https://i.imgur.com/4XDVJT5.png

There is a lot of good information on CB. The Google search (top right of every forum page) is a gateway to all the knowledge on this forum. IF you can’t find your answer there ask the question (Please be as detailed as possible, pictures help. I would be very surprised if there wasn’t someone on this forum that could answer ANY (firearm related) question you might have)
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
1. Boolits need to be cast .0005 to .003 (normally .001-.002) over the slugged diameter of your barrel for accuracy and to avoid leading. If the fit is wrong nothing else will work right.
a. slugging a barrel (it is safer to use a brass rod or a steel rod with a couple of coats of tape to avoid damaging your barrel http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
b. chamber casting https://www.brownells.com/guntech/cerrosafe/detail.htm?lid=10614
or pound casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356251-Pound-Cast-instructions-(for-rifle-chamber)
2. the right alloy needs to be used for the velocity and purpose of the boolit (don’t fall into the trap of going with too hard an alloy
Testing lead hardness with Graphite drawing/sketching pencils
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?378866-Lead-hardness-pencil-testing-trick

To find the content/alloys in your lead you can contact BNE (a member on this site) type BNE in the search box at the top right of each forum page, go to his profile page, click on “Send Private Message” (PM) Usually You send him 1 pound of lead (he prefers pure) and a very small sample of what you want tested. He’ll test it and send you the list of the alloys and their percentages

Some alloys harden over time
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

Lead alloy calculator (this is helpful but has some problems :( )
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
3. velocity the bullet needs to be pushed hard/fast enough to get the proper spin, have the proper velocity to accurately reach the target but not so hard as to be dangerous or strip the lead off in the grooves instead of spinning the boolit..
The boolit needs to be the right weight for the riffling/twist rate of your barrel
Powders range from fast to slow, you need to choose the right powder for your barrel length & application.
Loading manuals list the best powders for certain calibers and boolit weights.
NEVER use any posted noncommercial load data without first checking commercial load data to see if falls in the safe parameter for your firearm!! There are several firearms out there that can handle much higher pressures than others!!
Link to free online load data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

Optimum seating depth (still feeds and seats with the best accuracy) will vary with every gun
I read somewhere that you can hold the boolit in the chamber so it's touching the rifling. slide the biggest rod down the barrel and mark where the end of the barrel is. If there is a big gap between the barrel and the rod, you can use a washer the fits snug around the rod to help with marking.
remove the boolit then chamber an empty piece of brass, use the same rod and measure it again. Do the math, this is your max depth. Back it off a couple thou.
now you have to worry about feeding.

[243winxb]

I tested with Rotometals linotype in 44 mag and 45acp, trying to get the "to hard" alloy to lead the bore. Never happened.
Bullets i tested matched the groove diameter (not cylinder throat) they did not lead the barrel.

Used 50/50 lube.

Hard bullets dont slump or skid when fired.

[ThinkOutsideTheBox]

Thanks for the warm welcomes and insight.

So from what I'm hearing, the pure linotype bullets will do just fine for what I have in mind (paper targets at the range) with the usual loads. Since I'm only loading for semi-auto pistol rounds, it looks like it's actually in my best interest to save the rest of the linotype so I can add it to wheel weights later on, because regular 9mm and 45ACP loads don't even need the hardness.

And that saying about casting bullets not saving money is too true. My bank account hasn't grown, but my jars of brass have.

[tazman]

Most of my lead supply comes from range scrap. Occasionally, a batch will be softer than what I really want for 9mm. When that happens, I ad an ingot(1lb) of lino to my pot. This "sweetens" the mixture enough that it will water quench properly and be hard enough for most handgun uses.
38 special and 45ACP are low pressure rounds and do not require the hardness some of the higher pressure rounds do for best accuracy.
As a matter of course, I water quench directly from the mold to get the extra hardness from my alloy.
I lube and do not powder coat or high tech my boolits. If you do, the baking process will remove the hardening effects of water quenching. You can fix this by water quenching immediately after baking.

[JBinMN]

Welcome to Castboolits.Gunloads forum!

[Dusty Bannister]

Optimum seating depth (still feeds and seats with the best accuracy) will vary with every gun
I read somewhere that you can hold the boolit in the chamber so it's touching the rifling. slide the biggest rod down the barrel and mark where the end of the barrel is. If there is a big gap between the barrel and the rod, you can use a washer the fits snug around the rod to help with marking.
remove the boolit then chamber an empty piece of brass, use the same rod and measure it again. Do the math, this is your max depth. Back it off a couple thou.
now you have to worry about feeding.


I have not tried the above method, but this method is a very old one that works a little easier for me at least.

For Rifles
Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.

The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.
Dusty

[44Blam]

I would melt the boolits down and mix 4:1 ww to lino.
I buy Linotype from Ebay pretty regularly when I find it at about $1/lb + shipping.
Right now, I think I've got about 200lbs of lino but I use it at 4:1 with pistol rounds and then 3:1 or 2:1 for rifle rounds depending on how hard I plan to push them.

Anyway, I horde the lino, but I do find it pretty regularly on Ebay for a good price.

[243winxb]

What post 7 said. Harder alloy for 9mm.

[popper]

I'd just mix a 'normal' batch and then toss the needed number of lino 'nuggets' in the pot. I do that with superhard. My smallest ingot mould is 2#.

[fredj338]

Proper size is the key. I used to get lino cheap so cast all mu CAS bullets from lino. No issues, just a waste of good alloy. Today I would look to trade some for pure or range scrap & blend it.

[ThinkOutsideTheBox]

I tossed all the ones that came out just the TINIEST bit less-than-perfect into the lead bucket to be mixed once new lead comes in (in my part of California we have to BUY lead since wheel weights here are largely zinc or steel and ranges in my area don't allow non-staff to collect scrap). But I'll be shooting the perfect ones as part of the experiment. Besides, I'd feel kinda bad about melting these back down :lol:
241031

Would sizing these down to .356 be ideal, or should I undersize them because of the hardness?

[3leggedturtle]

Maybe it's, pure luxury, but not a waste to shoot linotype in 9mm. Personally i've shot 50/50 mix of pure lead and WW up 1800fps without leading. Mike Venturino has a few articles on what your doing. Todd/3leg

[RogerDat]

Well you may have a ton of lino today but they are not making more that is going to scrap yards or turn up in garages so... what you waste today you won't have tomorrow or you will spend a good deal more to purchase from a foundry. Check out the commercial price at Rotometals for Linotype. As an experiment sure but for regular use it is a big waste of resource that will cost money to replace. Not going to be more accurate, or make better holes in targets. You can get that same smooth sharp results with less than 2% tin pretty easily. No point to using the linotype with over 3x the required amount.

It is yours so you can if you want but... Considering you can sell printers lead for between 2 and 3 times the cost of plain lead or COWW ingots you can have 50 type metal bullets or over 100 mixed alloy that are just as effective.

It is not recommended to use type metal for hunting. Too hard will tend to shatter on bone and the small pieces it shatters into won't penetrate. Soft and expanding are preferred and soft on hitting bone tends to deflect intact or as just a couple of still heavy pieces that will continue to penetrate.

They are pretty though ain't they?

[dondiego]

I tossed all the ones that came out just the TINIEST bit less-than-perfect into the lead bucket to be mixed once new lead comes in (in my part of California we have to BUY lead since wheel weights here are largely zinc or steel and ranges in my area don't allow non-staff to collect scrap). But I'll be shooting the perfect ones as part of the experiment. Besides, I'd feel kinda bad about melting these back down :lol:
241031

Would sizing these down to .356 be ideal, or should I undersize them because of the hardness?

I would leave them as large a diameter as will chamber and feed in your pistol. THE worst leading that I ever experienced was with a hard alloy and a small bullet! You are welcome to come and shoot those linotype beauties into my berm. They won't go to waste.

[tazman]

Dondiego is correct. Leave them as large as possible and still chamber. Going undersize with a hard boolit is a recipe for a lead mine.