Do you seat gas checks below the case neck? Is this safe?

[weeple2000]

I have heard mixed things about where to seat gas checks. Looking for a consensus.

Edit - please vote in the poll

[Tom W.]

If they are crimped on nice and tight there should be no trouble with them. At least I haven't had any......

[weeple2000]

Thanks for the input. I just started shooting cast rifle. So far I have been erring on the side of caution. Hoping there is a consensus on this one.

[ShooterAZ]

While I think it's best to not seat them below the neck, with some short necked calibers it's not really feasible (think 300 Savage or 300 Win Mag). Just make sure they are crimped on well as mentioned, and you should be fine. I've not had any problems either, but I don't really like to have the lubed portion of the boolit below the neck.

[Texas by God]

Never had a problem with .300 Savage or .308 when doing this.

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[weeple2000]

Do you mean lubed portion of the bullet?

[ShooterAZ]

Yes, that's what I meant...:killingpc

[Bazoo]

If your using Hornady gas checks or other crimp on checks, then you should not have any trouble provided the checks are seated well prior to sizing. I put the check on, then hold the bullet and tap the check with my hammer handle to seat it all the way. The check gets a nice firm crimp this way.

I haven't experimented with the old Lyman style checks yet but all I've read says you're not supposed to seat them below the case neck. I've also seen where folks glue those checks on with superglue or epoxy. I can't say how it works as I've not tried it yet. I have shot some bullets with the old checks though and didn't experience any problems. I didn't seat them below the case neck though.

[weeple2000]

I have some from sage outdoors. I seat them with a Lee push through sizer. I am going to take a pliers to them and see how easily the checks come off out of curiosity.

[mattw]

I have been having a few 2 hole shots with the 22TCM, they only way to seat them is below the neck. I have tried Sages aluminum only at this point. I think that it may be necessary to go to check with a crimp to it for these to stay on 100 percent. The other issue may be that the aluminum are so thin that at .225 I am not getting a good bite on the base of the bullet. Am I concerned about it... no. Do I like it... no! I have not found any checks in empty cases either. I think it is perfecting materials and workmanship. I seated with a lee push thru, I would rather seat them with a tail first approach as that is more likely to bottom them out and get the crimp always on the biggest part of the shank.

[sigep1764]

In my 270 loads, the gas check stays in the neck. However, in my 223 loads with 75 grain cast boolits, the check sits below the neck in order to seat to magazine length. Hasn't affected anything so far.

[Beerd]

Do I seat bullets with the gas check below the case neck? Yes, occasionally.

Is it safe? I sure hope so.
..

[weeple2000]

I would have to seat the Lee 200 grain bore rider pretty far into the case in order to powder coat it. But with 30-06, or even 308, I am confident that I would have enough room. Using 2400 at least.

[Bazoo]

I will seat below the neck but I sure don't like it. Not because of the gas check but the lube. Always afraid the cartridges will get warm and melt the lube in the powder.

[one-eyed fat man]

I still have a goodly supply of the old Lyman brass looking slip fit gas checks. I watch the depth on those. I have Hornady crimp on gas checks in .30 cal and .375 but .30-40 Krag. .30-06 and .375 H&H all have long enough necks that that it's not a problem.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I'm seating Gator checks slightly below the neck in 358 Win. No apparent issues.

[weeple2000]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Feel free to keep them coming. Looks like we have a consensus so far and it wasn't what I expected.

[rking22]

I voted to use a different bullet, not because it's unsafe or likely to be an issue. Just because I feel it could be a variable that can be avoided. I have done it before with no issues, just prefer not to. There may be a possiability to upset the base before the bullet's base is within the neck, then swage it back down to fit. This leading to pressure variations,leading to velocity variations and bullet variations. Remote possiability but, easily avoided, at least for my uses.

[44Blam]

I have a couple boolits that seat below the neck. It is best to seat the boolit with the gc right at the end of the neck, though.
I've got a .308 round that sits the base about 0.10" inside the neck (about the size of the GC) and I get good accuracy with that round. I also load .357 sig and I know the gc is beyond the neck in that one.

[Kraschenbirn]

Like several others, I've seated the GC below the neck but am not really comfortable with it.

Bill

[wmitty]

I have a model 93 in 7 x 57 which I shoot using the old Rcbs 28 - 168 - FN boolit. The gas check is so far below the case neck when the boolit is touching the lands that it nearly blocks the primer orifice. Okay; maybe not that deep but it is a long slug. No problem that I am aware of.

[Peregrine]

Whenever I do my primary concern is powder sticking to the lube so I always use some dracon filler to stop powder migration.

[bedbugbilly]

I didn't answer your poll because the only two I gas check are 30-30 and 8mm Mauser - and the bullets I use do not require being seated below the bottom of the neck. It was interesting reading the responses though in case I should ever need to.

[Strtspdlx]

In my opinion there are some cases where seating the check below the neck are fine, such as seating the check, then powdercoating over the check and then sizing. But thats only if the check is held on tight and square. Alot of the designs i use for 7.62x39 seat the check so the top rim of the gas check is only engaged about .005 into the neck. So far i havent seen signs of an issue. However in standard lube i would try to avoid it for reasons already stated. Id be more curious to know how having a bullet using up case capacity and sticking into the case may change pressure and how the powder burns. Does it put pressure on the base of the bullet or does it cause the flame front to create a venturi when the bullet exits the neck. But this is all just an opinion, no facts or data to back any of it.

[Drifty4]

I figure that on a revolver, even though it is a straight case, the boolit has to go through the forward part of the chamber along with the blowby and then into the forcing cone, and they are still attached at the target, I think they should make it through a rifle case just fine. Never heard of it being a problem on revolvers.

[redneck1]

I used to be a bit nervous when in had to seat checks below the neck .
Untill a few years ago a friend and I spent three or four weekends shooting into a big snow bank .
A few weeks after the snow melted I found about 200 of the cast bullets we had shot on the ground .
Every single one still had the gas check attached .

I don't give it a second thought now .

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I load and shoot a lot of 300 Savage using the 311332. Gas check sits below neck for most cast bullets, very good accuracy with 18 grs 5744, under 2MOA at 200 yards, close to MOA at 100yds. Also same bullet in 308's with gas check just past neck to work through magazine of Savage 99, slightly better accuracy than my .300's. Using Alox-beeswax 50-50 or 45-45-10, no problem with ES or SD due to powder degradation. I do avoid very soft lubes with vaseline, other 'oily' stuff.

[murf205]

I seat boolits below the neck in my 358 Norma mag and it loves them. They are normally lubed and gas checked, loaded to around 2k fps. No leading and good accuracy--or at least for me. Around 1 1/2" @ 100 yds.

[weeple2000]

Well, I tried to pull a gas check off of a sized bullet. I couldn't do it. Not even with a pliers. So I think I will be fine.

[Golfswithwolves]

I will not load a gas check below the cartridge case neck. People do it and have no trouble, but I see this as a huge potential safety problem. One gas check which becomes detached could cause a chamber obstruction with possible dire results. I see no reason to take such chances with reloading.

[robg]

I seat them in the neck how else are they going to protect the lead from the heat etc?its easy enough with 223/308/3030 or am I just over thinking it?

[Peregrine]

I seat them in the neck how else are they going to protect the lead from the heat etc?its easy enough with 223/308/3030 or am I just over thinking it?

Definitely overthinking it, the temperatures within the case are high but integrated over the time that it takes for the bullet to move out of the case the thermal flux isn't going to be anywhere near enough to melt the alloy. If it were you'd have a lot of guys here lamenting it.


I will not load a gas check below the cartridge case neck. People do it and have no trouble, but I see this as a huge potential safety problem. One gas check which becomes detached could cause a chamber obstruction with possible dire results. I see no reason to take such chances with reloading.

Have you found any reports of such a thing ever happening?

I doubt a gas check would ever be able to act as a bore obstruction even if it beat all the odds and ended up partway down the barrel.
Really would have to be quite the sequence of events in order for it to end up there anyways, it would have to become detached, then end up behind the powder column such that it wouldn't be blown out of the case, nor would it remain in the case, but only partially make it down the bore? Sorry, I just don't see that happening.

[lotech]

There may be some rare exceptions, but I've yet to see any safety, accuracy, or leading problem with seating gas checked bullets below the case neck. I wouldn't use anything but the Hornady crimp on-type checks.

[jaysouth]

I check the tension on an installed gas check before I load it. My favorite rife is a .308 Vanguard, so I have to seat the gas check below the neck on several bullets.

One think to think about, when that powder ignites, it forces the gas check against the bullet until it is out of the barrel, with a lot of pressure. I would worry about a loosely fitting gas check that fell off in the cartridge before it was fired.

I also worry about powder being exposed to bullet lube. Any bullet that must be seated below the neck is powder coated or hi tek coated to prevent any powder reaction to bullet lube.

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. Peregrine- You are likely correct, and I do not mean to force others to load just as I do (this is America after all). I will continue to avoid loading gas checks outside of the cartridge neck however as I choose for my loading to remove any factors which I personally would worry about.

[Peregrine]

I rather like being called Mr.Peregrine. :)

I certainly understand where you're coming from, I prefer to keep the checks in the neck as well.

However if that's all I did i'd be seriously limited in the weight and style of bullets I could load in specific calibers, and it would preclude me from using some of my favorite loads that i'd rather miss.

But yes, do whatever works for you. However know that if you ever have the opportunity to deviate from that you likely can, my only real concern is lube and powder mingling hence only seating with the checks below the neck when I have a filler separating them.

[swheeler]

There are times when it has to be done, 8mm Maximum in every 8mm I ever tried it in, just about everything in 7.5 Swiss K31. but have never had a problem.

[lightman]

I try not to but I have on occasion. I don't remember ever having a problem.

[Larry Gibson]

I also prefer not as many years ago I found a Lyman slip on GC still in the fired 308W case after testing some deep seated 311284s.........

Thus, if I do absolutely have to seat a GC so the top is below the shoulder/neck junction, I will only do so with tight, well crimped on Hornady GCs.......no old slip on Lyman's and no home made ones which don't crimp on either. I never got excellent accuracy seating any cast bullets below the case neck anyway.

[GARD72977]

You could drive a gas check half way down the barrel with a wooden rod and it would not cause a obstruction. While not on the base of a bullet it's to flimsy to hold any pressure.

[swheeler]

I would think it could wedge sideways and have a bullet run over it, couldn't be good for anything.

[Four-Sixty]

This is from the 300 Savage page of Lyman's 4th edition of the "Cast Bullet Handbook"

No accompanying warnings about loose, or poor fitting gas checks.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190527/85f100302e4ce9ecf854a5da61c8c800.jpg

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[Beagle333]

I put a pinhead dot of epoxy in my rifle checks before I crimp them on, so that worry is not even a distant thought for me. I can seat them as deep as I want.

[BamaNapper]

This is the kind of thread I like to read. Discussion of a concern I never even thought of. I don't shoot bullet wt/caliber where it's a thing.

I do like the idea of PC over the GC. It never occurred to me. A fix for a problem that almost certainly wasn't a problem requiring a fix. But it would make it easier to snap on the GC before adding the extra couple thou of PC. Simple enough to run em thru the sizer again.

As for the thoughts about lube melting and messing up the powder, my brain touched on that a while back and still toys with it. If such a small amount of wax melted, would it even leave the groove? I does make an argument for storing rounds with the pointy end up, and not to store them in the trunk of a black Buick in south Texas. But maybe shooting in south Texas on that really hot day... Lube negates a bit of your powder charge, but the extra heat makes the rest of the powder more reactive. All the physics and chemistry that come together in a millisecond or so is mind-blowing.

If you read this expecting a revelation or informed opinion, I do apologize for the disappointment.

[tucumcari_kid]

I don't use checks so much now that I paint bullets. I haven't loaded rifle in a while but I have the same issue at times with 30 luger and 400 corbon. I guess it doesn't really bother me. There is probably a lot happening with gas checks we aren't aware of short of epoxying or some robust swaging.

[murf205]

Beagle333, have you ever tried super glue? The nozzle of the small tubes of super glue would be just right for applying a dot of glue. Only problem I see would be the "super" fast drying time. Maybe some archery fletching cement?? It takes longer to dry but it still has the tiny nozzle.

[marshall623]

My 7-08 Striker with the Lyman 160 Silhouette boolit has to be seated with the check below the neck to chamber . No issues and I've been shooting that load for about 5 years now in IHMSA . I use Hornady checks .

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[PAndy]

I do this with heavy bullets in 30-30. Longest is the rcbs 180 fp bullet, and I think my saeco 315 also loads this way. Had no trouble, probably 1000 rounds.

[Beaverhunter2]

I seat below the case neck if necessary- and it often is. I figure if I can't pull the sized-on check off the boolit with my fingers it's not going to fall off in normal handling. And as long as it's in the right spot when the primer pops it's going to be there when the boolit leaves the barrel. The pressure in the case is essentially the same everywhere so that's not going to push it off. I agree that the lube/powder contact could be an issue but I PC everything except Lee soupcans in .30-30 and some boolits in 45 ACP and 450 Marlin (straight walled cases)so I avoid this problem. I also wipe the lube off my boolit bases before loading.

[Wisest.fool]

I also seat my gc and then powdercoat. Never had any issues on 30 caliber from 115 to 200gn in 7.62x39 300bo 300win mag or 308. And the 200gn in 308 i have to seat wellllllll below the neck to get them to chamber. Also i make my own checks with dimaproks check maker that don't have the nice crimp on that hornady has and they are still fine. So i vote it doesnt matter if you powdercoat after seating. And if you powder coat and then seat and size it can be hard to get them on and keep them on. I do not recommend that.

Now 224 bullets are a different matter. Those im about to give up on. But thats a different topic.

[plainsman456]

Have not had any problems but i can see the lube melting thing happening.

When i lubed the grooves i didn't load many at a time.

Now i powdercoat and don't worry.
It has made a difference.

[Tar Heel]

Heat. I have often heard folks say that the heat of powder combustion will melt the base of lead bullets and/or the bullet lubricant on the bullet. Nonsense. How many of you reading this have ever passed your finger through a candle flame? Everyone right? Did you know that candle flame is, on average, 1830o Fahrenheit? Rifle chamber temperatures generally run about 2700o Fahrenheit. It takes you about 10 times longer to run your finger through a flame that the heat of burning gasses act on a bullet base. Did your finger get burned? No. I doubt that chamber temperatures have enough time to act adversely on bullets of any kind. Pressure however does! Expose your finger to a jet of just 3000psi gas and you will lose it regardless of the time of exposure. Chamber pressures are 10x that or more! Therein lies the devil.

Barrels and actions heat up due to frictional forces as well as repeated exposure to chamber gas temperatures. Put your cartridge in a hot chamber and allow it to temperature soak, and your bullet lube will certainly melt and flow.

Pressure acting on the base of the bullet acts on the entire exposed portion of the bullet equally. Pressure surrounds the exposed shank and gas check. The entire exposed mass is being acting on equally and the entire mass is being directed towards the area of lower pressure - the barrel ahead of it. Once the bullet is completely engaged, only the base is exposed to higher pressure. While you are sitting here reading this, you have 14.7psi (one atmosphere) acting on every part of your body equally. Your feet, your eyes, your arms, your noodle, all your parts. The pressure isn't pulling your pants off is it?

A gas check exposed to ignition and initial burn pressure is not going to be torn away since that pressure is acting on the entire exposed shank equally while driving the entire exposed shank forward.

An unsupported gas check may fall off the base of the bullet due to shock of handling, shock of chambering, or its being a bad fitting gas check. Pressure won't dislodge it.

I have never seen evidence where one of my gas checks has become undone. If it has, I have not seen any indications of this. Perhaps they have. I doubt it but can't state with 100% conviction that that is the case. Regardless, I have not had any problems with bullets seated lower and gas checks residing below case necks.

[racepres]

Heat. I have often heard folks say that the heat of powder combustion will melt the base of lead bullets and/or the bullet lubricant on the bullet. Nonsense. How many of you reading this have ever passed your finger through a candle flame? Everyone right? Did you know that candle flame is, on average, 1830o Fahrenheit? Rifle chamber temperatures generally run about 2700o Fahrenheit. It takes you about 10 times longer to run your finger through a flame that the heat of burning gasses act on a bullet base. Did your finger get burned? No. I doubt that chamber temperatures have enough time to act adversely on bullets of any kind. Pressure however does! Expose your finger to a jet of just 3000psi gas and you will lose it regardless of the time of exposure. Chamber pressures are 10x that or more! Therein lies the devil.

Barrels and actions heat up due to frictional forces as well as repeated exposure to chamber gas temperatures. Put your cartridge in a hot chamber and allow it to temperature soak, and your bullet lube will certainly melt and flow.

Pressure acting on the base of the bullet acts on the entire exposed portion of the bullet equally. Pressure surrounds the exposed shank and gas check. The entire exposed mass is being acting on equally and the entire mass is being directed towards the area of lower pressure - the barrel ahead of it. Once the bullet is completely engaged, only the base is exposed to higher pressure. While you are sitting here reading this, you have 14.7psi (one atmosphere) acting on every part of your body equally. Your feet, your eyes, your arms, your noodle, all your parts. The pressure isn't pulling your pants off is it?

A gas check exposed to ignition and initial burn pressure is not going to be torn away since that pressure is acting on the entire exposed shank equally while driving the entire exposed shank forward.

An unsupported gas check may fall off the base of the bullet due to shock of handling, shock of chambering, or its being a bad fitting gas check. Pressure won't dislodge it.

I have never seen evidence where one of my gas checks has become undone. If it has, I have not seen any indications of this. Perhaps they have. I doubt it but can't state with 100% conviction that that is the case. Regardless, I have not had any problems with bullets seated lower and gas checks residing below case necks.

I Like the way you Think... But... Common sense is UnCommon...

[Beaverhunter2]

FWIW I have a 476 325gr mold that crimping doesn't lock the gas checks to the boolit base regularly. Straight walled case so the gas checks can't come off until fired but when it loses one in flight accuracy is affected. Tried putting superglue on right before install and crimp. Didn't help....

[Larry Gibson]

Not really much "danger" unless the GC is loose fitting and may come off in the case during rough handling, as mentioned, or from recoil if in the magazine while other(s) are fired.

The real problems which may occur are riveting of the unsupported lower part of the bullet inside the case and/or severe gas cutting of that portion. There is an explanation in the NRA Cast Bullet supplement with a picture of recovered bullets. Whether this happens to any harmful degree [leading and inaccuracy] is dependent on numerous factors such as alloy, lube, depth into case, type of powder used, burn rate, pressure, etc.

[Photog]

So few years ago I was chronographing some 300BO. Using Lee C309-180 round nose boolits, gas checked with Hornady crimp ons attached during the sizing to 309. they are on pretty good. They gas check also sticks pretty far into the case with that load. Put a gas check right through the face of my chrono. Boolit ran true, but the check made its own way. They fixed it, but it costs money every time that happens, as I have put a 9mm through it once too. stuff happens

[blue32]

I'm continually below the neck with Hornady checks on my 260s. Fortunately it hasn't been a problem.