Guys, I don't like this much.

[Ghugly]

A friend of mine just got back from a mini vacation in Santa Barbara. While he was there, he got pulled over by a bicycle cop for having expired tags on his car (not a big deal, the fees had been paid, had forgotten to stick the tag on). The officer was friendly enough until he got a message over his radio...........then he jumped back and started looking worried. He told my friend, "I was told that you have a gun." My friend answered, "well, yeah I own a gun..........but, it isn't with me."

The officer was so nervous after that, that he rode off, dropped his ticket book, and left it there. My friend found another officer and gave the book to him.

I don't like this. I'm not talking about a concealed carry permit. My friend doesn't have one, just a registered handgun. I'm not sure why I don't like this, but I don't. I have a concealed carry permit. I don't mind if an officer is informed of this by his station, if I am pulled over for whatever reason. In fact, I expect it. But, it seems to me, that a line has been crossed when the police are informed, by radio, that you simply own a handgun.

Is it just me?

[Meatco1]

Interesting. I wonder what happened when the officer got back to the station with no ticket book?

Richard

[44man]

It sounds like a law was broken. That information is NOT supposed to be out there.
Where is it that he has to register a gun?
Oh, I forgot---Kalifornica!
Wait until NoBama gets in! :(

[AZ-Stew]

Typical CA police culture. The majority of them go berzerk when they get near one of us "low-life" ordinary citizens who happens to have a firearm. Recall the old lady in New Orleans who wanted to stay in her home after Katrina. The Commiefornia cops who were there to replace the N.O. police who deserted their posts after the hurricane gang tackled her after she showed them a small handgun she had to protect herself with. She didn't point it at them, she merely held it across the palm of her hand, whereupon two 240lb CHP bozos body slammed her into the wall of her kitchen.

This is how they've been trained. They apparently haven't been exposed to folks like us and don't understand that we're not the problem. They can't differentiate us from the crooks and gang-bangers. Their management and associated politicians don't have any interest in changing the perception.

I sincerely hope the old lady sues the dog $#!t out of the CHP for excessive use of force and wins.

I don't hate cops. I actually like and respect most of them. But I surely don't trust the ones west of my state's border.

Regards,

Stew

[NSP64]

another reason for everyone of sound mind to abandon kalifornia

[Bill*]

New Jersey is just as bad as Kali. Each pistol must be picked up with a four copy form signed by the local police chief. I get one, the store keeps one, one goes to my local police dept, and one goes........? :confused: ....Bill

[Jim]

'Bout time for a few of our resident LEOs to chime in on this.

[montana_charlie]

I get one, the store keeps one, one goes to my local police dept, and one goes........?
To the United Nations Council on Public Safety And Hazardous Material Control?

[Bob Krack]

another reason for everyone of sound mind to abandon kaliforniaI'm on my way. Looks like within the next month.

First stop Ohio, then regroup and head back to Misery - I mean Missouri!

Vic

[Bigjohn]

It would seem to me, the in the minds of SOME people; "Law-abiding Firearms Owner & Responsible Citizen" equates to "Low-life back shooting gutter snipe".

It would be this type of thinking that could lead to a tragedy if a Law-abiding Firearms Owner & Responsible Citizen went to the aid of a LEO if a bad situation.

The people who propagate this line of thinking need to be re-educated; which would be a near impossible task unfortunately; a) because they don't want to know any different, b) they can be found just about anywhere and c) they probably watch and believe everything in an episode of CSI is the truth.

John.

[Scrounger]

AzStew, they're just like the ones in your state, and mine, and every other state: Most are good, decent people, a few, fortunately very few, are criminals in uniform. Biggest problem is the same as it is in government, the military, and private enterprise; the bad ones seem to go into management and good ones don't want to go there...

[DLCTEX]

Come to Texas. With our new 'Castle Doctrine" law we now have the right to carry a concealed handgun in our car, or keep it in our home, and use it for protection of persons and property. For carry outside these perameters, we have "shall issue" concealed carry. No personal income tax, right to work, and a variety of climates to choose from. You can choose to live in very rural, or very urban areas, or a mix of both. It isn't heaven, but it'll do until I get there. DALE

[Cactus Farmer]

[smilie=1:Dale, I thought we were keeping that a secret.........

[monadnock#5]

You need to read a couple of Joseph Wambaugh novels. I'd suggest The New Centurions, and The Choirboys. Wambaugh has an odd writing style. In the midst of telling the story, he frequently injects his own thoughts and opinions. The stories themselves are very entertaining, although I don't believe they reflect the "average" cops experience.

Wambaugh's insights into the "human condition", and the relationship between police and civilians are priceless.

[WildmanJack]

New Jersey is just as bad as Kali. Each pistol must be picked up with a four copy form signed by the local police chief. I get one, the store keeps one, one goes to my local police dept, and one goes........? :confused: ....Bill

To the New Jersey State Police hdqts, Trenton, NJ ( unless they moved to Sea Girt). When I was a cop here in Fla. I stopped a guy for sppeding one night. I asked him for his D.L. and Reg, and he very politely told me that he had a gun in his glove compartment. I said, " Thanks for that bit of info, now just carefully get your registration out and we can finish this up". I wrote him a warning for 15 over the limit and thanked him for the warning about the gun. He thanked me for not getting nuts about his gun and for just writing the warning and he drove off. I then tore up the warning and went back to work..
This stuff in Calif. is very scary !!!!! :twisted:
Jack

[WildmanJack]

Monadnock#5,
If I recall correctly, Wambaugh, was a cop till he started writing. And I think he was an LA cop to boot. But I could be slapped here for being wrong...
Jack

[Meatco1]

Wildman, you're not wrong.

He was a local boy.

Richard

[Alchemist]

I'm on my way. Looks like within the next month.

First stop Ohio, then regroup and head back to Misery - I mean Missouri!

Vic


You're coming to MO?

Welcome Sir! What part of MO are you coming to? Just so you know....I have dibs on the tire shops in north-central MO!!

[AZ-Stew]

Scrounger,

With all due respect, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I lived there for 8 years and saw first hand enough of what I said to believe anything else.

Good cop or bad, their training and department culture makes them behave as they do with respect to citizen gun owners. It's driven by State politics.

That's one of the reasons I live here now. I've never seen similar behavior from Arizona officers over the 24 years I've lived here, regardless of department. Our State politics are far different from Commiefornia's, at least until enough of them seep across the border and ruin the Arizona culture.

Regards,

Stew

[Just Duke]

Typical CA police culture. The majority of them go berzerk when they get near one of us "low-life" ordinary citizens who happens to have a firearm. Recall the old lady in New Orleans who wanted to stay in her home after Katrina. The Commiefornia cops who were there to replace the N.O. police who deserted their posts after the hurricane gang tackled her after she showed them a small handgun she had to protect herself with. She didn't point it at them, she merely held it across the palm of her hand, whereupon two 240lb CHP bozos body slammed her into the wall of her kitchen.


Stew

They don't seem to be able to take care of their own Ca. gang problem though! As far as gangs go the lunatic are running the asylum in Ca.!

New O. got their a-sses spanked by the NRA for taking peoples guns. I feel they should be charged with war crimes!
Oh yea all take heed west coast violaters that violate our rights, just remember France's past history. One day we might be the ones the ring the bell.












.

[Just Duke]

To the New Jersey State Police hdqts, Trenton, NJ ( unless they moved to Sea Girt). When I was a cop here in Fla. I stopped a guy for sppeding one night. I asked him for his D.L. and Reg, and he very politely told me that he had a gun in his glove compartment. I said, " Thanks for that bit of info, now just carefully get your registration out and we can finish this up". I wrote him a warning for 15 over the limit and thanked him for the warning about the gun. He thanked me for not getting nuts about his gun and for just writing the warning and he drove off. I then tore up the warning and went back to work..
This stuff in Calif. is very scary !!!!! :twisted:
Jack




Wildman Jack = Good Guy

[Mumblypeg]

'Bout time for a few of our resident LEOs to chime in on this.

In South Carolina you may have a handgun in your vehicle as long as it's in a closed compartment, glove box or console compartment, it does not have to be unloaded(handgun) and the compartment does not have to be locked. At my house I will check you for guns. If you don't have one, I will loan you one of mine. I don't mind if you're armed, just don't point it at me. But... some of the other guys don't react that way.

[Just Duke]

In South Carolina you may have a handgun in your vehicle as long as it's in a closed compartment, glove box or console compartment, it does not have to be unloaded(handgun) and the compartment does not have to be locked. At my house I will check you for guns. If you don't have one, I will loan you one of mine. I don't mind if you're armed, just don't point it at me. But... some of the other guys don't react that way.

Amen to that brother. They can bring them in my house as long as there loaded.

[PatMarlin]

I think this story is suspect.

Just doesn't add up. DO you know this person well? I call bull.

[Dutch4122]

Don't know about "Kalifornistan" but here in Michigan when I run anybody through LEIN/NCIC on a traffic stop or some other incident I don't get the list of handguns registered to that person.

Yes, I can request that the station run a list of handguns through the Michigan State Police Firearms Records Division registered to an individual if I need that information as part of an investigation.

But, we never request that information as part of a routine traffic stop; especially for somebody who just forgot to put the new tab on their license plate!:lol:

[wills]

Yes, I can request that the station run a list of handguns through the Michigan State Police Firearms Records Division registered to an individual if I need that information as part of an investigation.

But, we never request that information as part of a routine traffic stop; especially for somebody who just forgot to put the new tab on their license plate!:lol:

So, Big Brother there has a list of your guns?

[wills]

Come to Texas. With our new 'Castle Doctrine" law we now have the right to carry a concealed handgun in our car, or keep it in our home, and use it for protection of persons and property. For carry outside these perameters, we have "shall issue" concealed carry. No personal income tax, right to work, and a variety of climates to choose from. You can choose to live in very rural, or very urban areas, or a mix of both. It isn't heaven, but it'll do until I get there. DALE

Shhhhh! Dont be tellin em that. Talk about tornadoes, fire ants, prickly pear, otherwise we're gonna be full a furriners.

[PatMarlin]

No the stories bunk. I would bet on it.

[PatMarlin]

Go as far as to say pure bunk.

[PatMarlin]

Where's deputy Allen at?... :mrgreen:

[45nut]

Allen is going or gone under by now, eye surgery to attend to something before it gets out of hand. We wish him a speedy recovery.

[danski26]

I can barely get a dispatcher to stop doing her nails or reading her novel to answer the radio and Cali coppers get a hit on gun "ownership" over the radio????? Hmmmmmm

[PatMarlin]

Pray for a speedy recovery for Al.. :drinks:

[Just Duke]

Go as far as to say pure bunk.

Pat it could of been pulled up that he has a concealed permit in another state. That even shows up on a person that gets pulled over.

[PatMarlin]

Yea- but then drop a ticket book and run? I still can't believe it. What cop will do that, and specially on CCW permit?

Just don't make any sense. If there was any reason for concern, I could see the cop step back and call for back up, but run? WHAT the heeck?

[Dutch4122]

So, Big Brother there has a list of your guns?

Sad to say, but true. Big Brother here has a list of every handgun I own, as well as every handgun I have ever owned.

Not any happier about that than the rest of you.[smilie=b:

[PatMarlin]

Well we all know that when we go in there and sign at the line and give them are little thumb print they've got us. Did it just yesterday... :roll:

[PatMarlin]

I'm not knockin' Ghugly, just we all have friends who tell tall ones... don't we? :mrgreen:

[Heavy lead]

Don't know about "Kalifornistan" but here in Michigan when I run anybody through LEIN/NCIC on a traffic stop or some other incident I don't get the list of handguns registered to that person.

Yes, I can request that the station run a list of handguns through the Michigan State Police Firearms Records Division registered to an individual if I need that information as part of an investigation.

But, we never request that information as part of a routine traffic stop; especially for somebody who just forgot to put the new tab on their license plate!:lol:

Dutch,
I have a Michigan CCW, it is my understanding that it is the law if you have a CCW, if stopped by a police officer you must show the CCW card with DL and registration, is that not correct? And also I was told that you (the officer) were notified when you called the plate number in whether the owner of the vehicle had a CCW as well. Is this true, or not?
I have been stopped with and without weapons in the car, and always disclosed whether I had one and where it was, along with handing the card to the officer. In my case I must have treated the officer with respect as I got off with warnings both times. In reality I was speeding and he had me dead to rights both times too. I have always had the best luck with that, when he asks how fast you were driving tell them, why lie, heck they've got the radar gun.
Quite frankley with the drug traffic that is on the I-94 corridor between Chicago and Detroit I want to be helpful to the guys in blue, I know quite a few both county and state officers, they know if they need help, I'm there.

[Freightman]

Come to Texas. With our new 'Castle Doctrine" law we now have the right to carry a concealed handgun in our car, or keep it in our home, and use it for protection of persons and property. For carry outside these perameters, we have "shall issue" concealed carry. No personal income tax, right to work, and a variety of climates to choose from. You can choose to live in very rural, or very urban areas, or a mix of both. It isn't heaven, but it'll do until I get there. DALE
Dale do not recruit to many as you forgot to tell them there aint no water and trees are 6' tall to non existent up here. Even the mesquite trees are bushes in my part of Texas.
I was hit and the fellow ran, so I called the police to report it for insurance purposes, when he arrived I informed him that I was a CCW holder. He said where is the gun? in my back pocket I said, he said what is it? told him and he said nice gun and never flinched again and thanked me and left after he took th information. O by the way all the damage was to the other vehicle as the steel bumper on my old Ford truck is 24" off the ground, and they never caught the other guy.

[danski26]

In Wisconsin no information is available to us about CCW permits in other states unless we would contact an agency in the state in question and request the information. Definatley not a "real time" proposition.

[leftiye]

Several nice (I enjoyed them) stories here of LEOs acting like they should. It seems like in my part of the world that LEOs seem to have stopped having any common sense about twenty years ago (or maybe they just weren't allowed to display it). That along with no lattitude for discretion, and being allowed to temper a situation with reasonable solutions. I've been stopped and held for getting in my own car at a body shop and attempting to drive it home when it was left outside to be vandalized, and I've twice been charged with crimes in response to the lies of low life types. Both of these I was able to get dismissed, but the lawyer costs were more than the fines would have been. Not to mention we the law abiding here being treated like "perps" as a matter of course. I have had to suggest that a policeman pat search me so that he would stop worrying about me putting my hands in my pockets. FWIW I worked at the state prison here and retired from same. I am quite aware of what animals some people (criminals) are, and was a peace officer and very positive about law enforcement personnel.

I've put a few posts on this board that sounded anti law enforcement. I do however suspect that Police policing us may be necessary. And I do understand how they might become paranoid about some dingleberry killing them in the course of their job (been there did that). But it has gotten to the place where it is fairly hard to be friendly with the cops around here, they just seem to want to mess up as many people's lives as possible, and have no apparent heartache at all about doing it (probly that psychological test they're required to take and pass when they test for hiring weeds out the ones with a conscience). They're too young and inexperienced to have much judgement, and they'd probly get fired if they did and wanted to exercise it. I'm not anti law enforcement, but I'd surely like to be treated with more than prescribed procedure (like a perp is what this results in).

[Ghugly]

I think this story is suspect.

Just doesn't add up. DO you know this person well? I call bull.

Very well. He is a early 30's Realtor, his wife is a high school English teacher, and they have two cute little kids. We have a ritual; every Monday morning my son and I go to his home and drink up his freshly squeezed gourmet coffee. I have no doubts about the truth of the story.

I believe the officer did receive a radio response when the officer checked the untagged plates. I believe that the officer stepped back and appeared nervous. I believe that the officer told my friend that he had been informed that my friend owned a gun (really, the only part of the story that I found alarming). And, I believe that he dropped his ticket book as he road away.

I do not believe that the officer dropped his book while escaping a dire situation in a state of panic. I do, however, believe that policemen, riding bicycles and wearing short pants are funny looking (noting to do with the story, just a personal observation).

[Halfbreed]

I have been stopped 2 times with a ccdw and permit, once for speeding, 65 in a 55 zone, state trooper, very young officer. acted very professional took my info, finally curiosity got the best of him and he asked to see it, a S&W 629 3"bbl. NO ticket cause I was honest with him.
2nd time, a road block on memorial day looking for drunks, again very professional, did take a look at my permit, did not care about the pistol, not a S&W fan. again, have a nice day and roll on.
John

[Dutch4122]

Dutch,
I have a Michigan CCW, it is my understanding that it is the law if you have a CCW, if stopped by a police officer you must show the CCW card with DL and registration, is that not correct?The initial "training" that came down from the State of Michigan said that you only had to "declare" if you were in fact armed at the time of the stop. Several changes have come down since (including court rulings on this) and the best advice I can give is to just show the Officer your CPL along with your Driver's License and tell him/her whether or not you are armed at that time. This takes away any chance of a misunderstanding; which could lead to you receiving a ticket for violation of some obscure part of this law. I have a lot of co-workers that are not happy about this new "shall issue" permit system; and I'm sure that they are not the only ones out there who would love to get the chance to screw with a law abiding gun owner and possibly find an excuse to confiscate a pistol. And also I was told that you (the officer) were notified when you called the plate number in whether the owner of the vehicle had a CCW as well. Is this true, or not?Not true and true, hows that for "doublespeak? [smilie=1: It works like this, when we run your license plate the information back from the MI Sec. of State file includes the driver's license number of the vehicles registered owner. If the dispatcher/officer runs the DL # before they approach you then they will know whether or not the registered owner of he vehicle they have stopped or are about to stop has a CPL. So, if this is standard policy for a dispatcher or the officer does it as part of his routine on a traffic stop you can see how he would know before talking to you whether or not you have a permit. Make sense?

I hope my above explainations helped. For those of you not familiar with the Michigan Concealed Pistols License Law I can sum it all up for you like this. Law abiding citizens lobbied for this law long and hard. It was passed by the state legislature; but the law ended up with a bunch of provisions attached that gave law enforcement the authority to ticket you or confiscate/forfiet your pistol for various "proceedural" violations one may commit while carrying a pistol under his/her license. Governor Jennifer Granholm reluctantly signed it into law.

So we ended up with this convoluted concealed carry law.

[cattleskinner]

Here in Ohio when running a plate or OLN through LEADs, it will tell me if the owner has a CCW, and doesn't come back with a list of guns the guy owns. That is also a problem with the LEADS system is that it comes back with very little information about those from another state, so someone from Michigan could be carrying and I would never know unless they are honest. If I stop someone with a CCW, they get treated like anyone else, in that I want to see their hands at all times, how they rest of the stop goes depends on their actions and demeanor, and the law here states that if they are carrying they have to inform the officer of such.

~Amos

[Ricochet]

I'm told that here in Tennessee, running the plate doesn't tell anything about the handgun permit, but running the driver's license does.

[Heavy lead]

I hope my above explainations helped. For those of you not familiar with the Michigan Concealed Pistols License Law I can sum it all up for you like this. Law abiding citizens lobbied for this law long and hard. It was passed by the state legislature; but the law ended up with a bunch of provisions attached that gave law enforcement the authority to ticket you or confiscate/forfiet your pistol for various "proceedural" violations one may commit while carrying a pistol under his/her license. Governor Jennifer Granholm reluctantly signed it into law.

So we ended up with this convoluted concealed carry law.

Dutch,
Thanks for the clarifications. I know it is complicated, just like some of our hunting laws. I'm in fairly rural Van Buren county, I know quite a few peace officers here and it is a pretty gun friendly County Sheriff's department. When I have gotten stopped for any reason (not a lot mind you, just a couple times and just given warnings for my lead foot) I just hand the card to them with my dl and never had a problem. I for one am glad we finally got the shall issue through, flawed as it may be.
Keep up the good work.
Steve

[Heavy lead]

Here in Ohio when running a plate or OLN through LEADs, it will tell me if the owner has a CCW, and doesn't come back with a list of guns the guy owns. That is also a problem with the LEADS system is that it comes back with very little information about those from another state, so someone from Michigan could be carrying and I would never know unless they are honest. If I stop someone with a CCW, they get treated like anyone else, in that I want to see their hands at all times, how they rest of the stop goes depends on their actions and demeanor, and the law here states that if they are carrying they have to inform the officer of such.

~Amos

Good point about the hands, I think it's important for us (meaning civilians) to use our heads and understand the hairy situations you guys can be faced with. Usually if we are stopped it's because of something stupid we did. Honestly, I have never been stopped by an officer where I felt like I didn't get treated with respect.

[Heavy lead]

I thought I would put this out there.
I and my wife were vacationing in Western South Dakota, Eastern Wyoming and Montana a couple years ago. We had a rental car from Rapid City and were in Sheridan, Wyoming heading for the Big Horns. I got stopped doing 35 in a 25 by a officer who seemed a little put out at first. Asked me a bunch of questions the standard ones and then asked me if the woman I had with me was from Michigan too. I said yes, she was my wife. Soon as he found out she wasn't a local girl, he changed his tune, said he would just give me a warning and said have a good time in Wyoming.
Weirdest pull over I ever had.
:hijack:

[WildmanJack]

Not to get off the topic, But , a few years ago I was in Ireland visiting some kin and was stopped for no apparent reason. (Speeding in a country that drives on the wrong side of the street is NOT my thing!) Anyway, I found out that I had driven into Northern Ireland with SOUTHERN Ireland ( the Republic of Ireland) tags on my car and it was 4 or 5 days before the 'Drum Cree March. When the Catholics and Protestants tend to have a small war. Anyway, this young Irish cop walks up to the driver side of the car and sticks a machine gun in the window and says, "You'll be puttin your hands on the dash and not movin till I tell ya too"... So I did EXACTLY what I was told. My dear sweet 83 yr old mother sitting int he back seat, unloaded on this poor kid. For about 3 minutes he had to listen to this very Irate old Irish woman giving him the tongue lashing of his life. He looked at me, gave me back our pass ports and said, " Go on with ya, ya have enough trouble in there with ya. Way more than you deserve.. Be safe on your holiday... And try to calm her down as the next Garda (cop) may not have the same sense of humor.." I said thanks and begged my mother to not harass the Northern Ireland Garda if we get stopped again. She told me if we get stopped again, she's get out and show those so and so's what for... I told her if we get stopped again, I would dis-own her !!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all had a good laugh. I sure hope the cop did...
BTW I have no idea what caliber that gun was, the bore liiked to be about the same as a 155 howitzer and it had a really big magazine!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack

[Bret4207]

As I've relayed here before, in NY a check of registration or drivers license does not result in any information on pistol permit staus, much less what guns you might own. Dan and I are riding together today and discussed this. I'm not sure how long it would take us to get the info. An hour maybe, maybe more? There is no requirement to declare anything about permits or having a gun with you in NY. Common sense says if you have a gun the cop will see to let us know so there are no "surprises". My bowels work overtime as it is, so please don't give me any added stress!!!

As for the original post- are you sure he wasn't a security officer or other "rentacop" type thing? I relaize I'm a dinosaur and not up on the "new age" law enforcement methods, but running away and dropping my ticket book would still result in a personel complaint on my job.

BTW- I think cops on bicycles in shorts look stupid too.

[PatMarlin]

NY state law?- Brett can a private party in NY sell me a rifle and send it to my ffl with just showing a copy of his drivers lic, or does he have to be an ffl?

[Bret4207]

That would depend on Federal law since it's and interstae issue. I THINK it has to go FFL to FFL.

[Bob Krack]

You're coming to MO?

Welcome Sir! What part of MO are you coming to? Just so you know....I have dibs on the tire shops in north-central MO!!

Like the handle. I will be settling in the deepest southern parts of Missouri. Probably south central but still shopping and planning strategy for retirement and for retreat.

I'll probably make a one time several hunnert pound purchase of commercial alloy and watch for bargains on ww and scrap lead as secondary source.

Not to deviate too much from the thread though, I do find it hard to believe that any local PD has ready access to handgun ownership records close enough on hand to include in wants and warrants (and/or auto registration information), but then again - Santa Barbara is in the heart of one of the weirdest deepest parts of the land of fruits, nuts, and flakes.

Vic (Village Idiot from Carthage, Missouri)

[Boerrancher]

Here in Mo the CCW is an attachment (printed on) the drivers license. A good friend of mine found a way around that. The told them at the DMV, where you have to go for your photo and license, that he wanted his on a separate license, not his D.L.

As far as the story that started this thread goes, I can believe anything coming out of Kali, I do have a feeling that there may have been some embellishments though.


Best wishes from the Boer Ranch

Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

Come to Texas. With our new 'Castle Doctrine" law we now have the right to carry a concealed handgun in our car, or keep it in our home, and use it for protection of persons and property. For carry outside these perameters, we have "shall issue" concealed carry. No personal income tax, right to work, and a variety of climates to choose from. You can choose to live in very rural, or very urban areas, or a mix of both. It isn't heaven, but it'll do until I get there. DALE

Amen, I have been here 3 years after Ms Katrina washed me up here from the New Orleans area. I still miss the food and family and friends,but I don't miss the crime and the best politicians that money can buy!

[miestro_jerry]

I like in Ohio and we had some reforms concerning our CCWs, but my CCW is still connected to my car tags. So if I get pulled over, I am suppose to have my hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2.

Jerry

[dualsport]

New guy here, thanks for letting me get my two cents in. I was born in Sacramento 54 years ago. My kids and family all live here and are also California natives. My university educated daughters both shoot, my son is an NRA member and a decorated Iraq vet, including a Purple Heart. The reason I'm telling you all this is to try to dispell the popular notion that Californians are "different" than other Americans. Yes, there is a left wing component that gets a lot of attention, but that's not the whole story. It bothers me every time I hear another story about a California shooter bailing out of the fight for our rights. Maybe instead of whining and leaving they should have got active, join an appropriate organization, like the California Rifle and Pistol Association and GET IN THE FIGHT! As far as that Santa Barbara cop bugging out like he was scared is puzzling. Most cops, ( I know, I was one) look forward to gun calls and chases. The fact that he seemed to have some unauthorised information is also puzzling and worthy of a formal follow up by the guy that got stopped. Finally, maybe some of you non-Californians could help us out by joining the NRA and asking them to fight harder for California. We could take this state back from the antis if we all pulled together. That's a lot of electoral votes.

[Scrounger]

NY state law?- Brett can a private party in NY sell me a rifle and send it to my ffl with just showing a copy of his drivers lic, or does he have to be an ffl?

Pat, A resident of any state in the Union can send a rifle to your FFL, it does not have to be shipped by another FFL. Any adult can package the rifle and take it down to his local Post Office or UPS and ship it to you, all he needs is a copy of the receiving FFL. They will probably ask to see the copy of the FFL to verify that it is going to a dealer. Some people are misinformed on this issue but you can call your local ATF office to confirm it. Or go to the link below (ATF) and see Questions B1 and B3.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

[PatMarlin]

Art- reason I asked is my FFL wanted a copy of his drivers lic.

[Scrounger]

Art- reason I asked is my FFL wanted a copy of his drivers lic.

The receiving FFL needs a good identification of the origin of the gun to list in his permanent record. He could use a copy of his driver's license just as he would if someone walked into his store and sold him a gun. If he receives the gun from a dealer, he need only list the FFL Number. When I ship a gun to someone I put in a copy of my Driver's License, my CCW, and my C&R License. The C&R License is not necessarily relevant to the transaction but it is positive Federal identification. Driver's Licenses don't copy very well on copy machines so I take a digital picture and enlarge it to full page size and print to get a more legible copy.

[9.3X62AL]

Pat et al--

All is going well after the surgery, and thanks for the kind words and concern.

I'm not sure what to make of the story, really. Maybe the best way to respond to the thread in general is to comment about observations I've made as a trainer of CA LEO personnel in firearms and other venues.

More often than not, an academy student has zero to little exposure to firearms prior to academy attendance. That lack of familiarity can translate to discomfort with the items, and lack of confidence in their own ability to use the tools--even after the exposure and training received in the academy.

Contrast that extreme with my own situation as someone working as a LEO who was comfortable with the tools and with other people possessing them in my presence. I assumed EVERYONE I contacted was fully armed, and wasn't real worried about it because I trained myself in such a way that a lethal threat gesture by another person was at least as dangerous to them as it was to me. I just didn't fear the idea of citizens being armed around me, and felt it my duty to train myself to respond appropriately to lethal threats. A CITIZEN WITH A SIDEARM IS NOT A THREAT, UNLESS HE/SHE POINTS IT AT YOU. Then and only then does it become a problem. Maybe that is an over-simplification, but the formula worked for me for 28 years. I should add that early in my career I was shot on duty, and that experience did NOT change my feelings about citizens with firearms. One hairball with a sawed-off 20 gauge has nothing to do with the millions of law-abiding folks who own and use guns for recreation and self-protection. Anyone who feels otherwise has no business in my old business.

[eka]

It's been my experience in law enforcement that every department has smart people and not so smart people. Some are squared away and some are lazy malcontents. Some are personable and some are jerks. We recruit from the masses, just like every other employer. There are systems in place to weed out undesirable candidates. Everybody that takes the job, brings with them different life experiences which are their core values. Just because we all wear the same uniform and operate under the same general orders, doesn't mean we all behave the same in a given situation. Some recruits are liberal in their views when they are hired and have never touched a firearm before in their lives. I've had officers tell me they don't particularly like carrying a gun or having to fire it during practice. Then you have guys that shoot, hunt, collect firearms, and apply to be firearm instructors and armorers. I'm not surprised that there are officers out there that are very uncomfortable when dealing with firearm issues. But, that doesn't excuse them if they mis-handle citizens who are well within their legal rights in their ownership of firearms.

Now, like I have said before, it's not the guy with the CCW that I'm worried about or the guy who tells me up front that he has a gun in his car. Look, if it was that guys intention to harm me, he wouldn't be telling me he has a gun. He would be showing me the gun from the muzzle end.

Keith

[Dutch4122]

Now, like I have said before, it's not the guy with the CCW that I'm worried about or the guy who tells me up front that he has a gun in his car. Look, if it was that guys intention to harm me, he wouldn't be telling me he has a gun. He would be showing me the gun from the muzzle end.


Don't think I could've said it better myself!

[Bret4207]

Pat, A resident of any state in the Union can send a rifle to your FFL, it does not have to be shipped by another FFL. Any adult can package the rifle and take it down to his local Post Office or UPS and ship it to you, all he needs is a copy of the receiving FFL. They will probably ask to see the copy of the FFL to verify that it is going to a dealer. Some people are misinformed on this issue but you can call your local ATF office to confirm it. Or go to the link below (ATF) and see Questions B1 and B3.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

There ya go. I stand corrected. :-D

[Bret4207]

It's been my experience in law enforcement that every department has smart people and not so smart people. Some are squared away and some are lazy malcontents. Some are personable and some are jerks. We recruit from the masses, just like every other employer. There are systems in place to weed out undesirable candidates. Everybody that takes the job, brings with them different life experiences which are their core values. Just because we all wear the same uniform and operate under the same general orders, doesn't mean we all behave the same in a given situation. Some recruits are liberal in their views when they are hired and have never touched a firearm before in their lives. I've had officers tell me they don't particularly like carrying a gun or having to fire it during practice. Then you have guys that shoot, hunt, collect firearms, and apply to be firearm instructors and armorers. I'm not surprised that there are officers out there that are very uncomfortable when dealing with firearm issues. But, that doesn't excuse them if they mis-handle citizens who are well within their legal rights in their ownership of firearms.

Now, like I have said before, it's not the guy with the CCW that I'm worried about or the guy who tells me up front that he has a gun in his car. Look, if it was that guys intention to harm me, he wouldn't be telling me he has a gun. He would be showing me the gun from the muzzle end.

Keith


Cripes! You mean there are MORE guys like me?!!!:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

I'm glad you made it though Al, your surgery and career.. :drinks:

Thanks for the FFL update. I had the seller fax a copy of his DL to my FFL. I was a little worried that the laws had changed and I may have had to send back my new rifle!


Ghugly, sorry for the thread highjack damage,.. :Fire:

[Ivantherussian03]

The first thing I say to cops is don't shoot me I am not criminal. No lie.

The police have pretty much have instant access to information: driver license numbers and license plates for sure, and lord knows what else. It is all on computer, or computers with Internet access. Kinda of scary.

I was driving my truck that registered in another state while on vacation. It looked "suspicious" appearantly and he pulled me saying the owner of this vehicle does not have a drivers license in this state. To which I said "that would be true sir--would you like to see my license from another state."

[Bret4207]

Ivan- "Instant access" to a limited amount of info, especially motor vehicle stuff. It's supposed to work that way. As for the "don't shoot me" stuff, do as you wish. Seems like theatrics to me.

[Jim]

If I've ever been guilty of theatrics(and I have), it was putting both hands out the window upon being approached by an officer. Now, don't get me wrong, this don't happen all that much. The last time I got stopped was '05 in Texas. I think to do that because of all the LEOs that have told me how nervous they tend to get.
I want him to know before he even gets close that I have nothing in my hands.

[Boerrancher]

I have had a few bad run in's with LEO's. A good deal of my friends and family are LEO's, and I have a great respect for what they do. Most of my bad experiences have been with bad Leo's who were either ignorant of the Law or just didn't care to follow it. Me, being me, have never let anyone threaten, bully or intimidate me in any way. When I know I am right and lawful, I will always respectfully fight until the last dog is dead, sometimes to my detriment, but I am always 100% honest and truthful, and that has saved my butt in those bad encounters, because most people can't tell a lie the same several times in a row.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Bret4207]

Sorry if I seem picky about this but I get awfully tired of hearing the same crap over and over again. Do what you want. I've never had a single person I can recall hang their hands out a window, tell me not to shoot because they aren't a criminal, present me with a CC permit without being asked, any of this stuff. 99% of the people I've dealt with have been as pleasant as could be expected under the circumstances. Maybe I just live in a "more normal" area or maybe it's my effervescent personality, but I've rarely had run ins with people that couldn't be negotiated to a reasonably happy ending. I've only seen a few of the clowns so many of the various posters describe. I've come down on a few guys who were a little too "big for their britches". Perhaps it's my upbringing, but I think you can be a good cop without being a freaking moron about it when you deal with people.

Actually, we just had a range session and they have to tell our young guys that the BG doesn't have beat you up before you start fighting back! Tell me the PC/IAB fear hasn't swung way too far the other way on our job. They're finally bringing back hip shooting too!


Ah well, I'll be retired within a month or so and then someone else can worry about it.

[rhead]

"I got pulled over the other day for speeding. The LEO was nice, polite, business like and effecient. I was speeding and he chewed me out and warned me."

That is what happens 99.99% of the time but is sure maks a story that isn't hardly worth the effort of posting. Nobody remembers the good encounters.

[Ghugly]

I live in a small town. Most of a year ago, some really bad guy (so I was told) was known to drive a car similar to mine (I have a 35th anniversary supercharged Thunderbird, which is rather rare and distinctive). At any rate, I was pulled over 4 times in a week and checked out. Trust me, I want the guy off the streets and I don't really mind being pulled over, if it helps. Three out of the four times was no big deal, very professional and polite with me wishing the officer well. Ah, but the fourth time was different.

I pulled over, left my hands on the steering wheel where they could be seen (something I always do, I've been pulled over a lot). I hear this girl screaming at me, "put your hands out the window, where I can see them." Understand, I really have no problem with women in positions of power, never have. But she was literally screaming at me. She sounded scared to death. I've had guns pulled on me, I don't like it. I really don't like to make people with guns nervous, and she sounded like she was about to lose it.

I put my hands out the window. Again, she screamed, "put both hands out the window, where I can see them." I started wriggling my fingers so she could see that I had both hands out. I'm guessing that the miscreant she was looking for was of a race different than mine because as soon as she got a clear look at my hands she announced that I wasn't the guy.

It ended OK, nobody got shot and we both went on our way. But, I was left with the impression that either she was very poorly trained or was severely lacking in something necessary for the job.

I have a lot of respect for the police, they do a vital service that I wouldn't want any part of. But, not every one is up to the job.

[Ivantherussian03]

Well maybe so--I have been pulled over a number of times. It was always my impression that the police are very suspicious...and they are very careful that each person they encounter maybe a criminal with a gun.

As for instant access to information comment. I figured everyone knew that the LEO had access to DMV records. I am guessing they have access to other data bases, but I don't really know and I won't speculate.

I have had mostly positive experiences with my encounters with LEOs.

Once a police woman asked what was in the zip lock bag on the passenger side floor boards. It was zuccini bread. Another time, I was on leave from the military walking to my grandmother's house of all things. I had very long hair down to my shoulders. The cop pulled over his car and pulled me over with a finger gesture. He asked what I was doing and I told him, which might sounded funny to him, or like a smart-ass comment, but I was going to my grandmother's house. He asked for identification, and handed him my military ID him. He asked what is this? That is my id. He did not believe I was in the military. He let me go but because he was looking for someone, and call on the radio came in. Another time a cop was peaking in my wallet while I got my ID out and asked why do you have a military ID?

It may sound like I had a lot dealings with police. But i have not a gotten ticket since I was young adult, knock on wood. But I do get pulled over every couple of years it seems.

I think in dealing with police it is best be cautious, straight forward, and honest. They do have guns, and their training or personality type makes them suspicious of people. In looking back, I question why they pulled me over I do wonder if I looked like a criminal, and placed some sort of value judgement on me. But sometimes they come across as not trained well.

[Bret4207]

"But sometimes they come across as not trained well."

Very true Ivan. You'll find most of those kids that come across that way either change after they get their head handed to them once or twice or find a different job, at least in my outfit. Nothing instills humility like a good butt kicking.

As for the screaming maiden cop...my mouth often runs away with me. Lets just say there are some who would be better off in alternate employment. Lot of guys like that too.

I've said before that I think this is all a reflection of our society/culture. Many folks complain of poor service from cops. The same is true in every other branch of the service industry I can think of- doctors, lawyers, dentists, veterinarians, cooks, waiters, SALES PEOPLE, teachers, etc. We get what we sow I suppose. It surely isn't limited to cops.

[1Shirt]

Like most of the threads with dozens of responses, this one has much info and most of it good. What it shows me is that there is a whale of a lot of inconsistancy between states, the training of police officers, and the attitudes of both the police and the comon folks. I have mixed emotions regarding the police in general. I have great respect for the law enforcement agencies, and for most of the individuals in law enforcement. That said, it is the individual and the circumstance that may be the problem. Like all of the other agencies in Govt, be it at what ever level, there is political correctness and quotas that are filled. It is often that quota filling has produced some of the less competant regardless of the job, job discription or qualifications.
It has to be a real pain in the tail to be a law enforcement officer, do your duty, arrest some scumbag who is nailed red handed, and have a trial lawyer and a liberal judge get them off on some yo yo point. While there are inconsistancies in law enforcement I am sure, I see far more in our court system.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[dakotashooter2]

I think the fact that he is a bicycle cop pretty much explains it! [smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[Typecaster]

Back to the "real" question—

When a California LEO runs a plate or DL, is the info tied into the DOJ handgun registration files? Not the CCW database, but our registered handguns? And, yes, I did write "registration"—handguns are required to be registered in CA; rifles and shotguns "may" be registered at the owners option (DOJ recommends it as a means of identifying them if they are stolen). And if you want some real fun, request a printout of your registered handguns and try to add one that fell through the system 30+ years ago but was bought from a gun store.

Any California LEOs allowed to answer?

Richard