Loading my 38-55s

[RangerX]

Hello,

I'm very new to reloading. Infact i've just loaded my very first 50 cartridges for my Winchester 38-55 94 commemorative.
I followed the Lee outline provided with my die set and cross referenced it with the Hodgdons manual that was supplied with my Lee loading kit. But, being my first time i'm second guessing how much powder i've used in my bullets.

I used 255 gr lead bullets, .376 size.
I used H4895 powder.

I used 23 gr. of the H4895, which seemed to be about middle ground between the min and max load. Any of you 38-55 guys can tell me if i used a correct load for my cases? Also, i've started doing some reading about loading and it seems some guys use a wadding in their case? I didn't use any wadding, and the powder certainly didnt fill the entire case. there is certainly a gap between the bullet and powder when it was finished. I assume this will lessen my FPS from lost compression? maybe i should change to a different powder that will more fill the cartridge?

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I load mine with 48 grs of 3f Goex. Compression, Wad, Big lube bullets.

Sam :-D

[oneokie]

Hello,

I'm very new to reloading. Infact i've just loaded my very first 50 cartridges for my Winchester 38-55 94 commemorative.
I followed the Lee outline provided with my die set and cross referenced it with the Hodgdons manual that was supplied with my Lee loading kit. But, being my first time i'm second guessing how much powder i've used in my bullets.

If you are second guessing yourself, you need to stop where you are at. Get a good reloading manual and familiarize yourself with SAFE reloading practices.


I used 255 gr lead bullets, .376 size.
Have you slugged your barrel to see if the .376" boolits are the correct size to fit your barrel? If they are smaller than groove diameter, you will experience leading.

I used 23 gr. of the H4895, which seemed to be about middle ground between the min and max load. Any of you 38-55 guys can tell me if i used a correct load for my cases?
How do you know you used 23 grains of H4895? Do you have a set of scales that you weighed the charges with? Standard proceedure for beginning reloaders is to start with the "starting" load shown in reloading literature.

maybe i should change to a different powder that will more fill the cartridge?
The only powder that I know of that will fill the case is BLACK powder, per the above post. None of the smokeless powders will fill the case.

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.
Use the search function at the top of the page to look for threads and posts on the 38-55. Lots of information here if you look for it.

Welcome to Cast Boolits.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

RangerX,

These are some loads I collected from the Cowboy Wire.

Sam :-D


KK, the originals were in the vicinity of 250 to 265 g as far as bullet weight. I'm using 265's in my 1893 Marlin. This gun left the factory in 1899. Load it likes is 18.5g of XMP-5744 under the 265's with a CCI BR-2 primer. gives 1365fps with an SD of 7. This load is only 3fps slower than the factory smokeless loads when the gun was new

I shoot the 38-55 in a Win 94 and 1885 Hi Wall. I've gott best success with IMR4198 - 22 grains with a 269 grain gas check bullet. Also had good success with a 249 grain non gas check bullet but found the gas checked bullet works better out to 500 yards. Tried Accurate Arms powder, I believe it was 5744 or something close to that, it shot well but it is the dirtiest dam smokless powder I've ever shot.

Howdy Kid,

My gun is a Winchester "Legendary Frontiersman" commemorative. I load it with reformed 30-30 brass. Makes great 38-55 brass and saves money big time.

My load is a case full and compressed with FFFg Swiss, a 1/16" Circle Fly over powder card and a DD 38-55 255 grain RNFP bullet. I've won some wood and paper with it. Shoots great, never fouls out and cleans up easy.

I've had great success with 22 gr of IMR 3031 under a 245gr RNFP bullet. Very accurate out to 200 yrds (longest distance I can shoot here.)

Hey Kid,
My Winchester/miroku highwall in 38-55 likes a 240 gr Lazercast over 6.5 grains of Trailboss. It will shoot one hole at 100 yds

Howdy, I load 245 gr.bullet with 18 grains of H-4198 OAL 2.510 and I use the same powder load with 335 gr. black powder cast bullets OAL 2.75. I had someone load black powder for me and other than the smoke they don't do any better(could be me). The loads do real good up to 450 yards, after that they come down like a mortar. BUT I HAVE A LOT OF FUN WITHOUT THE KICK.

38-55 loads

245gr Magma bullet. 2 lube grooves.

Black Powder loads
I use Schuetzen FFg at about 46gr. (or Goex FFg same load)
The slightly compressed loading method.
Produces about 1370'/sec.
lube is Thompson PS lube or SPG
================
Smokeless Powder loads
I use Accurate 2015 at 24gr. (starting point)
Produces about 1370'/sec.
Any smokeless lube.
============
I try to load smokeless to match BP load velocities in rifle calibers.

Here is my loading:

.380 245 grain Meister bullet, 21.1 gr (1.38grams) of 5744, Winchester large rifle primers.

These shoot nicely out to three hundred yards.

Dirtwater Doc

21gr of 4198 with a 250gr bullet. Very accurate in lever and single shot. I shot a 1.25" group at 300yards with my high wall using that load.

-Deadlee

[missionary5155]

ONEOKIE is Correcto !!! Also slug the chamber area where the boolit begins the journey down the bore... You may find it is around .378- .381... so you are gonna need a REAL fat boolit to "fill-er-up". It helps alot to seal the gasses behind the boolit.
Do ask Questions ! The first time I fired my Winny 38-55 with .376 sized boolits my 50 yard pattern was a real heart breaker and cleaning all that lead out upsetting. I use a FAT .382 boolit now and Winny is a descent shooter.

[Jon K]

RangerX,

Welcome aboard.............

Lot of good info to digest in the above posts.

Here's my $.02
Winchester Commemorative '94 38-55...................Mine is a OFW.
Do you have the factory tags, that came with the gun? One of those tags has the groove diameter on it. Mine was .379, and that's what it slugs. .376 is too small.
Fit the boolit to the barrel for best results.
*Slug the barrel @chamber end & measure.
*Measure or see if the chamber will accept a loaded round with a boolit .001-.002 over groove diameter.

Boolit/powder/primer selection is like the old Ford vs Chevy debate. 38-55 has a large selection to choose from, I think I have owned most every 38-55 mould, so just depends on your diameter needs for the gun, and your taste for whatever flavor boolit you like.

38-55 is about my most favorite cartridge........Pleasant to shoot and accurate.


Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

[RangerX]

Oneokie:

I have watched a lot of videos on reloading procedures. I believe i have a very good grasp on how to safely and properly reload a cartridge. During my first run at it, i went very slowly and kept the laptop with me to re-review the processes again for each step. I feel comfortable doing the process. I am second guessing my load merely because what my Lee sheet from the die set says and what my Hodgdon manual says are 2 different things. I tried to meet the middle ground on the lower side for both specs. That's why i posed the question here to experienced loaders who could possibly verify for me that i have chosen a proper load for my cartridge. Yes, i do have scales. i have a complete reloading kit. It was the Lee breech 50th anniversary kit. I'm very happy with it as a starting set. I have not yet slugged the barrel. I originally bought .379s because i had read it is a common bullet for my gun. I exchanged the for the .376s because my lee load spec stated that bullet (i understand now i should not have assumed that made it the right bullet, but i thought a little smaller will be less risk. Thank you for the tip about it leading my barrel. I didn't know that was a side affect of an undersized bullet. i will search for posts for procedures on how to properly check my bore size. I did try the search function for loads for the 38-55 but found mostly black powder info. So, i thought i would just pose the question. I certainly did not do it as a lazy way to get the info. I am the type that investigates everything i can on my interests.

Thank you for the concern and tips.

Jon K:

My Winchester is also the OFW. I really love the gun. Unfortunately it does not have the tag to check the groove size. So i will have to check it myself. I guess i will have to scrap those cartridges i made and get the proper size bullets after i check it.

Sam and Missionary:

Thanks for your load tips and feedback. Much appreciated.

Would you guys suggest i look into wadding my cartridge, sticking with the smokeless? to help fill the cartridge.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Rangerx.

I haven't been reloading very long either, but have never heard of wads with smokeless. Perhaps what you are wanting is gaschecks or paperpatch. My understanding is no airspace with BP and airspace is recommended with smokeless. I may be wrong. I only load BP now. 38 and 38-55.

Sam :-D

[garandsrus]

Ranger,

The charge you used may not be optimal, but it should be safe... You can see the online load guide at the Hodgdon web site, which is www.hodgdon.com. They show a load of 21.0 to 26.0 gr of H4895 with a 250gr cast boolit, which is consistent with your load. Your charge of 23.0 gr is towards the low end, as you mentioned.

I agree with the other folks that you might get some leading or keyholes in your target due to undersized boolits, but go ahead and shoot them to see what happens. The worst that will happen is that you will need to clean the barrel.

Do a search on "slugging barrel" to find instructions for figuring out what size boolit you need.

If you would like to try some boolits sized to .379 or .380, let me know and I will get some in the mail to you.

I shoot a lot of 38-55 with Unique powder. I don't have the load data in front of me, but the load is pretty light and the powder only fills a small portion of the case. I don't use any fillers and don't experience any problems.

John

[Jon K]

RangerX,

BP use a wad............
Smokeless.................NO WAD needed

23 grains of 4895 is a little on the light side, a friend shoots 30 grains 4895 in his Marlin 38-55 336CB. I am shooting 18 grains 5744 w/282 gr PJ 38006, or 20 grains 5744/Saeco 255 gr.

Jon

[boommer]

Jon the thing is cast bullets you want the bullet 2 thousands larger than your bore diameter as a general rule. I would start with .379 slug if it chambers in your gun and it should. Slugging the bore probably wont be easy for you to do since your just getting started.You would need Creo-safe or a bullet slightly over size to beat down the barrel without screwing up the rifling or the crown. I would say start .379 bullet don't push the bullet past 1400 fps unless you are using gas check bullet and that will get you in the black.

[Jon K]

Jon the thing is cast bullets you want the bullet 2 thousands larger than your bore diameter as a general rule. I would start with .379 slug if it chambers in your gun and it should. Slugging the bore probably wont be easy for you to do since your just getting started.You would need Creo-safe or a bullet slightly over size to beat down the barrel without screwing up the rifling or the crown. I would say start .379 bullet don't push the bullet past 1400 fps unless you are using gas check bullet and that will get you in the black.

boommer,

Go back and read the posts again, I believe you got me mixed up with RangerX.

Cast Boolits don't need to be .002 over groove, if using BP with soft lead/tin mix, it will do well at groove diameter +, because it will bump up. Yes, .002 would be ideal for smokeless with a harder WW alloy, but in many 38-55 rifles, there is a great variation and many chambers are too small to allow a .002 over groove boolit to chamber.
Cerosafe will give you close measurements, but will shrink, a lead slug is more exact. Slugging from the muzzle end is not as critical to fitting a cast boolit to a gun as the chamber end will tell you wht you need to size it.
1400 fps is a little conservtive, PB Boolits are usually good to go 1500+ fps without any leading issues. I usually try to stay in the 1400-1500 fps and try to use a GC above 1500. Not trying to push it, but I have used a load in my Browning '92 @1540 fps with no leading after 100 rounds.

Jon

[KirkD]

The others have pretty much said it. The two things I will re-emphasize is that it is very likely that you .376" boolits are too slim. 38-55's can have a range of groove diameters and the only way to find out what yours is is to pound a fishing sinker or similar piece of soft lead down your bore after making sure your bore is clean and slightly lubricated. Then measure the diameter. Your bullets should be .001 or .002 larger than the groove diameter. Also, 23 grains of H4895 is going to be a mild load indeed. It should clear the barrel, however. I believe that a chronograph is an essential part of ones reloading equipment. I don't trust published data unless I can confirm it over my chronograph.

[eka]

RangerX,

First off, welcome aboard, glad to have you here.

Don't worry about the boolit being a thou or two over groove diameter. A lot of new reloaders and/or new cast boolit users are very concerned that they are going to be sending a big fat boolit that measures larger than the groove diameter down the tube. They assume this will cause a huge over pressure situation. And it could with the wrong powder or too much of it, just like with any other bullet or load. Another thing we cast boolit users do is seat our boolits out of the case so they engrave the rifling of the barrel. Both of these things could get you into trouble sometimes with jacketed bullets, but remember we are using cast boolits. The lead alloy is able to conform to the confines of your barrel when loaded with reasonable charges of the right powders. That is what we want them to do. That creates a good gas seal behind the boolit and the results are hopefully good accuracy and no leading. One of the things you are going to find out quickly, as I think you already have, is there is very little cast boolit data in the regular reloading manuals. Lyman publishes a cast boolit manual which is a good reference as well as asking questions and searching for data here.

As has been said many times over, there is no such a thing as a dumb question. We all started out at sometime or another and we all had questions. If you keep at it, keep experimenting, and trying new things, you'll continue to have questions. That's why we all come here. To discuss these things, help each other out, and enjoy each other's company.

Keep at it.

Keith

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I've been loading 38-55 for 2 original 94's and an 1885 Hi-wall for a long time. I use Lyman mold #375248 and an old Winchester mold. Both drop bullets that mike .379" and weigh around 255 grains with WW. I must be lucky. I shoot them unsized and lubed with NRA 50/50. I get the best groups with the Hi-wall; second is the rifle and third is the carbine. There are various powders you can use that will work, but I have found that IMR 3031 works best for me. I started with 25 grains and worked up. The max that you can/should use is 30-31 grains. How much you use depends on the grouping that you get. Loading powder is the one step in reloading that can get you into deep jello if you aren't sure of what you are doing. You MUST have the ways and means for weighing and measuring whatever powder you are using and what you are doing with....and you must definitely have a loading manual as a guide. Read as much as you can on loading the/any cartridge. 38/55 can be and often is loaded with black powder...as it was originally done. a lot of folks do that and enjoy it. I personally don't like having to deal with the cleaning issues, particularly the cases, so I stick to smokeless. Keep asking questions until you are sure of what you need to know and your results are acceptable to you. Members of this forum are on line constantly and are always patient and willing to help. Good shooting. LLS

[RangerX]

Thanks very much for your replies and insights guys.

Eka: The lyman book is exactly the one i have on order. i was directed that it would likely be the best all around manual for me.


I think i will fire these .376s just to see the outcome of the grouping. Though i'm confident from all your guys valuable input about the slimness of the bullet coupled with the light grain load it will be horrible :). The next ones i will be reloading will be the .379s with a slightly higher charge. probably 25 gr. 1 under the max recommended by Hodgdon. See what kind of accuracy i get with that. I will use up the H4895 i have and try another type for comparison as i try some different loads to see what works for me.

Again, thanks very much for all the feed back. It's nice to have found a place to discuss about these things with such a multitude of experienced people.

RangerX

[garandsrus]

RangerX,

I found some 38-55 chronograph data I recorded with the Lyman 375449 and IMR-4895:
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
1158 1199 1212 1309 1406 1436 1458 1574 1614

The top number is grains of powder and the bottom number is average velocity. All of the loads left unburnt powder in the barrel.

I stopped using 4895 and went with Unique instead. I also liked 2400 powder.

John