liquid buffer for shotguns.

[vinny1892]

Hi im wondering if anyone has tried creating their own liquid buffer for shotgun shells. Ive been loading skeet loads for a few years and am looking into loading hotter loads for coyote and turkey.They dont make the duplex load i used to load so I wanted to create it. thanks

[Johnch]

Interesting
I have never thought of a liquid buffer

I load buffered loads , steel shot , Lead shot and Hevi Shot loads

But I sort of have a couple of problems with a liquid buffer
1 is a chance for the liquid to get past the wad into the powder and mess it up
2 is the liquid getting past the crimp and exiting the shell

3 is the big problem .... I seem to remember reading several different times that a liquid when subjected to a external force
Will act like a solid for a time
As I got to shoot a "Bullet Proof " vest that had a layer of some sort of liquid in it , the vest was flexable till a bullet hit it and then turned hard to help stop the bullet
So I wonder if a liquid buffer would also act as a solid ?

When the gun was fired ... maybe not a big deal
But when the shot and liquid buffer hit the choke ??
Then I could maybe see a BIG Problem , as if the Liquid Buffer acted as a solid
It IMO could cause a split barrel or a ruined choke tube , as the "Solid" of the mix of shot and buffer hit the choke

I have seen several split shotgun barrels while duck and goose hunting
From "Magic" Goose hunting loads , designed to help goose hunting loads hold a better pattern at LONG Range

I do load buffered loads for both Coyote and Turkey LOL
The Coyote loads use a Home cast 4 buck using water dropped pellets out of a Lee Mold
A pretty cheap , but effective way to get long range loads

The Turkey loads are not cheap , but work
That is because I still load Buffered Hevi Shot loads
3" - 1 3/8 or 3" - 1 1/2 oz #6 & #4 Hevi Shot loads pattern
So well that inside 30 yards , I have gotten 12" 30 yard patterns

LOL My hunting partner and I use Red Dot sights on our shotguns
Because the loads shoot to tight at close range and REMOVE turkey heads

If you want long range Turkey loads
Look at TSS pellets and loads , again not cheap .... but LOL Nothing that preforms that well is
Federal is now loading that shot

I shot some #8 TSS 3/4 oz 12 gau loads last fall for mallards , pass through at 40+ yards on December mallards
A 20 gau wad is used inside a 12 gau wad
I was offered turkey loads to use this spring , but I still had Hevi Shot loads

John

[longbow]

I am afraid I am not understanding... is liquid buffer a thing? And what does liquid buffer have to do with duplex loads? Is that duplex shot sizes or powder? I am hoping duplex shot sizes.

And what Johnch said... how would you contain or control a liquid buffer?

I don't thing the acting as a solid thing would be an issue because if the load has a cushion leg wad that will give during acceleration and while most liquids aren't compressible to any extent the flow so should accommodate a choke. Plus those liquids that act as a solid when impacted are non-Newtonian fluids. For example, mix a bit of water with cornstarch to make a thick paste. It will be a shiny liquid that runs along a surface but hit it or drop it and it will shatter like a solid... then as soon as there is no stress it will flow like a liquid again.

But again, how would you contain or control a liquid buffer? And how would a liquid act as a buffer which supports the shot? I am confused.

Longbow

[vinny1892]

The duplex load is shot size NOT powder and winchester uses a liquid buffer in their long beard xr loads. Its some sort of resin that breaks apart when fired..

[M-Tecs]

It's a liquid when filled than it sets up. I don't know if it like hot glue or some of the UV resins that setup with UV light or something else? It appears to be developed as a mass production benefit. For the home loader traditional buffers settled with vibration works well.


https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/winchester-long-beard-xr-magnum-review/99162

The Shot-Lok resin is essentially a liquid that engineers pour into the shot cup before any of the pellets are inserted. Before the resin hardens, the pellets are added and allowed to move freely within the gel. The resin then solidifies, with the Shot-Lok completely surrounding the pellets.
This is important because once the load is fired, the entire Shot-Lok resin fractures into a powder-like substance that forms a protective barrier (called buffering) around the pellets


https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/4/15/industry-innovators-winchester-s-shot-lok-technology/

http://randywakeman.com/WinchesterLongBeardXRTheBestLeadLoadsEverTested.ht m

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/20/tested-winchester-long-beard-xr-20-gauge-shotshells/

[RMc]

Winchester holds the patent on the use of Liquid When Applied Buffer for shotshells.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140290521

This type of Breakaway Glass Plastic has apparently been in use for many years in the movie industry under the trade name Smash Plastic by Smooth-On, Inc.

https://www.smooth-on.com/product-line/smash/

In 2014, it appeared Ballistic Products was about to add a Liquid When Applied Buffer. This product introduction was likely precluded by the Winchester patent.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/ShowAdditionalImg.asp?number=141C5OZ

[vinny1892]

very cool it be cool to try this for homemade loads. Not to sell them since it be infringement since they hold the patent. as long as you stay below max pressure I dont see why you would get into any troubles...?

[longbow]

Okay then that makes more sense! It isn't actually liquid buffer it is solid buffer that fragments when shot... just liquid when "installed".

Now that I hear this I am thinking this same (or very similar) subject came up a while ago and there were suggestions of using a variety of brittle when set type fillers and IIRC hard rock candy was one!

The pressure thing is a bit tricky if you don't have pressure testing equipment. Shotshell reloading is not like metallic cartridge reloading where you can safely work up a load and watch for pressure signs. To my knowledge while there are certainly pressure signs when a load gets over pressure that is the problem... by the time you are seeing these pressure signs the load is over pressure not just approaching high pressure. This is why it is always recommended to follow published pressure tested loads when reloading shotshells.

Yes, some people work up loads and some make significant substitutions in components but generally it is not considered good practice. Some small changes, like brand of primer, can result in pressures changing by up to 3000 PSI so it pays to be careful. Buffer is another change that can raise pressure substantially.

Play but play safe!

Longbow

[vinny1892]

Ok well i figure if i sub out pwdr for buffer/shot i should be safe. Ex 10 grains of powder for buffer.... also the rock candy did cross my mind but personally i dont like really hot liquid near or around any sort of powder!! Granted it probably would cause a mushroom cloud but not taking the chance of a premature kaboom :smile: