.32 S&W Long loads?

[Fotis]

I have a SW 31-1 snubby like new condition, and I want to load for it. I do have a bunch of 95 gr Cast performance flat point bullets I bought for it.
Anyone have a load for this thing. I have heard 3 gr of 231 works great but that is pretty much it.

[JoeJames]

data from my S&W 4" Model 631 32 H&R Magnum, but shooting 32 S&W Long loads with 98 grain lead swc's:
2.3 grains Win 231 = 634, 630, and 668 fps
2.4 grains Win 231 = 653, 724, and 667 fps
2.0 grains Bullseye = 659, 642, and 665 fps
2.1 grains Bullseye = 694, 681, and 689 fps
2.2 grains Bullseye = 625, 757, and 760 fps

Out of S&W Hand ejector, 5th change same bullet 98 gr. swc:
2.1 grains Bullseye = 636, 641, and 672 fps
2.2 grains Bullseye = 702, 741, and 721 fps

[JoeJames]

data from my S&W 4" Model 631 32 H&R Magnum, but shooting 32 S&W Long loads with 98 grain lead swc's:
2.3 grains Win 231 = 634, 630, and 668 fps
2.4 grains Win 231 = 653, 724, and 667 fps
2.0 grains Bullseye = 659, 642, and 665 fps
2.1 grains Bullseye = 694, 681, and 689 fps
2.2 grains Bullseye = 625, 757, and 760 fps

Out of S&W Hand ejector, 5th change same bullet 98 gr. swc:
2.1 grains Bullseye = 636, 641, and 672 fps
2.2 grains Bullseye = 702, 741, and 721 fps

And from various reloading manuals, and a good example of why I use a chronograph:

Win 231 *From the manuals:
32 S&W Long - Winchester 231
1. Hornady 2018
90 grain SWC
2.3 gr. = 650 fps
2.5 gr. = 700 fps
2. Lyman
90 grain SWC
2.0 gr. = 689 fps
2.3 gr. = 777 fps
3. NRA Handloading
98 grain SWC
2.4 grains = 765 fps

[Outpost75]

Thanks for posting. Good data on milder loads for the older revolvers.

[murf205]

Fotis, show us a pic of this little beauty. We love gun porn.

[Fotis]

Ok
239204

[RED BEAR]

Now thats a nice looking pistol.

[Larry Gibson]

Fotis

Sweet looking little S&W!

In my 3" M30 in 32 S&WL I load 2.1 gr Bullseye over the Speer 98 gr HBWC in R-P cases with a WSP primer. They run 730 fps with excellent accuracy. Under the Lee TL314-90-SWC (or the Hornady 90 gr LSWC) I load 2.7 gr of Bullseye in R-P cases with WSP primers. They run 890 fps with exceptional accuracy also.

Both these loads are well under the SAAMI Map of 15,000 psi for the S&WL cartridge. Interesting to note that SAAMI list that MAP in deference to the semi auto match pistols made for it. The MAP for the 32 S&W is 17,000 psi.........:?: Many erroneously think shooting the 32 S&W is "safer" to shoot in older S&W 32Ls.......perhaps it's not. One of these days I'll work up 32 S&WL loads using the Contender test barrel and Oehler M43 to measure the psi up to 17,000 psi.

239213

[psweigle]

I use 2.1 grains of bullseye with 98 grain cast round nose.

[GhostHawk]

I'm using the Lee .314 90 gr tumble lubed truncated cone over 2 grains of Red Dot in my H&R 2.5" double action and my Ruger NM Single Six in .32H&R mag.

Shoots good in both, easy on the hands. About like shooting .22lr.

[cold1]

From the speed #9 manual

98gr cast rn

Unique 3.5gr 942fps
Red dot 2.8gr 912 fps
Green dot 2.9gr 907 fps

Test gun was a S&W 31

Speer#9 is copy righted in 1974.

Speer #11 in the section on the cartridge info for 32swl, "load data in this manual doesn't exceed the 12000 cup saami max. As you can see this makes an impotent cartridge out of it". None of the loads from Speer #9 appear in Speer #11.

[Guesser]

My 31-1, 30-1 and Colt PP 32 all get 95-98 gr. bullet over 2.9 gr. of Trail Boss or 2.5 gr. of Bullseye

[Fotis]

Great. Thanks for your help

[Green Frog]

Excellent thread. Every time anyone starts talking about any of the 32s on this forum, the responses show that interest in the caliber (or should I say “family of calibers?”) is far in excess of current production of revolvers and ammo in 32. :2gunsfiring_v1:

You can bet I’ll be following this thread closely and taking notes! :coffeecom

Froggie

[Outpost75]

This data from The Fouling Shot

.32 S&W Long Factory Vs. Handloads In Modern Revolvers and Rifle

Remington cases, Federal 200 primers in all handloads:

Ammo Type_______________Colt DS 2”_______Colt PP 4”________H&R Bunny Gun 18”

PMC 98 LRN factory_________687, 13 Sd______797, 17Sd________945, 16 Sd
Highest velocity factory load__103 ft-lbs._______138 ft.lbs.________194 ft.-lbs.

Remington 98 LRN factory____645, 20 Sd______729, 12 Sd_______899, 11 Sd

Western 98 LRN (1960s)_____643, 19 Sd______658, 22 Sd_______912, 17 Sd

Privi-Partisan 98 LRN________656, 28 Sd______675, 11 Sd_______917, 21 Sd

Accurate 31-087T, 2.5 BE____662, 16 Sd______780, 22 Sd_______1000, 15 Sd

Accurate 31-090B, 2.5 BE____731, 26 Sd______773, 11 Sd_______1066, 16 Sd

Acc. 31-090B, 5.6 #2400____718, 43 Sd______745, 56 Sd_______1094, 36 Sd

Accurate 31-114D, 2.5 BE____746, 9 Sd________795, 15 Sd________947, 11 Sd
Max. for pre-1960 revolvers__141ft.-lbs.________160 ft.-lbs.________227 ft.-lbs.

Accurate 31-134D, 6.3 #2400__828, 19 Sd_______913, 16 Sd________1221, 16 Sd
.32 H&R Mag. Revolvers Only!__204 ft.-lbs._______248 ft.-lbs.________443 ft.-lbs.!
+P .32 S&W Long Load for use in .32 H&R Magnum revolvers only. Payload and velocity equal .38 Special +P. DO NOT EXCEED! STOP right here! Very accurate in rook rifle!
__________________________________________________ ____________________

[RED BEAR]

I am a 32 nut just love them.

[Green Frog]

[QUOTE=cold1;4618188]From the speed #9 manual

98gr cast rn

Unique 3.5gr 942fps
Red dot 2.8gr 912 fps
Green dot 2.9gr 907 fps

Test gun was a S&W 31

Speer#9 is copy righted in 1974.

Speer #11 in the section on the cartridge info for 32swl, "load data in this manual doesn't exceed the 12000 cup saami max. As you can see this makes an impotent cartridge out of it". None of the loads from Speer #9 appear in Speer #11

Can you explain this please? Are you (or was Speer?) saying that these loads from #9 were above the 12 000 CUP standard and the #11 deleted them, or that they offered lowered charges in their suggestions, or what? Unfortunately my Speer manuals are packed away from a move, so I can't read them for context. I'd really like a good Green Dot load for a SWC around 100 gr+/- and it looked like that would be a good starting point. I've got a BUNCH of Green Dot for 20 ga shotgun loads.

Froggie

[RED BEAR]

Those loads from speer #9 seem a bit above anything that is in any of my manuals. Thats real close to 32 hr levels. I have noticed the newer manuals are milder than some of the older ones i have heard they changed the way that measurements are taken.

[Outpost75]

Those loads from speer #9 seem a bit above anything that is in any of my manuals. Thats real close to 32 hr levels. I have noticed the newer manuals are milder than some of the older ones i have heard they changed the way that measurements are taken.

I think it more likely that many Speer loads before No. 11 were not pressure tested, but that they relied on unreliable, subjective pressure signs like extraction effort and those loads were ALWAYS too hot.

[Green Frog]

Senor 75, How much do you calculate I would need to back off from that 2.9 gr Green Dot load to start working on a starting load? I'm thinking about my RNHP at 105 and dropping back to about 2.4 or 2.5 to start... this for my little I-frame snubbie (post-War) and of course my K-32 and 327. Obviously the last of these will eat them safely, so I guess it becomes a test mule then I work from there. Does that sound like a reasonable plan of action? :coffee:

Froggie

[Outpost75]

Senor 75, How much do you calculate I would need to back off from that 2.9 gr Green Dot load to start working on a starting load? I'm thinking about my RNHP at 105 and dropping back to about 2.4 or 2.5 to start... this for my little I-frame snubbie (post-War) and of course my K-32 and 327. Obviously the last of these will eat them safely, so I guess it becomes a test mule then I work from there. Does that sound like a reasonable plan of action? :coffee:

Froggie

2.2 of Green Dot is a good .32 ACP load, so your 2.5 is fine as a start load in the .32 S&W Long. In a modern J-frame about 3 grains should top it out.

[Green Frog]

Many thanks, my friend. I had guesstimated that approximate range, but independent confirmation is reassuring. I’m hoping to do a lot more 32-ing now that the weather in CV has started to break for the better. :Fire:

Best regards,
Froggie

[cold1]

Can you explain this please? Are you (or was Speer?) saying that these loads from #9 were above the 12 000 CUP standard and the #11 deleted them, or that they offered lowered charges in their suggestions, or what? Unfortunately my Speer manuals are packed away from a move, so I can't read them for context. I'd really like a good Green Dot load for a SWC around 100 gr+/- and it looked like that would be a good starting point. I've got a BUNCH of Green Dot for 20 ga shotgun loads.

Froggie

Speer #11 stated that when saami speced the 12000 cup max.pressure, they (saami) turned the 32swl into an anemic round.

Speer #9 does state that those loads should only be used in modern solid frame guns and that they should not be used in hinged frame revolvers. This manual was published in 1974, so I would surmise that between then and the publishing of #11 in 1984 saami capped max pressure at 12000 cup. I do believe saami did this just as they did with 45 LC and 4570, to give a max pressure that would be safe in all pistols including the old break top.

Neither manual publishes pressure numbers

[Green Frog]

I just found an old article by the late George Nonte. He suggested using 3.5 grains of Bullseye or 4.5 grains of Unique behind the 95 grain Ideal 313445 SWC bullet. This sounds a bit rowdy to me, especially since he was talking about using this load in his 2" J-frame. Am I being a "Nervous Nelly" or was he a bit overenthusiastic? For reference, I routinely load 2.5 grains of Bullseye with this bullet.

Froggie

[Outpost75]

I just found an old article by the late George Nonte. He suggested using 3.5 grains of Bullseye or 4.5 grains of Unique behind the 95 grain Ideal 313445 SWC bullet. This sounds a bit rowdy to me, especially since he was talking about using this load in his 2" J-frame. Am I being a "Nervous Nelly" or was he a bit overenthusiastic? For reference, I routinely load 2.5 grains of Bullseye with this bullet.

Froggie

3.5 grains is too hot for a .32 H&R mag!!!

[Larry Gibson]

I seldom disagree with Outpost75 (actually almost never!) but 3.5 gr of Bullseye is not "too hot for a .32 H&R mag" under a 95 gr cast bullet in Rugers or S&Ws. I have pressure tested 3.5 gr Bullseye under a 90 gr TL314-90-SWC and it runs at 17,000 psi +/-......the SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W.

The SAAMI MAP psi (15,000 psi) for the 32 S&WL is in deference to the blow back semi auto target guns made for WC match loads. Note the 32 S&W SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W is the same as for the 38 SPL; 17,000 psi. Loading the 32 S&WL to the same psi as the 38 SPL which the J frame S&W was made for back in Nonte's day is not a problem.

I've not pressure tested the Bullseye or the Unique load in the 32 S&WLs ......yet. Guess I'm going to have to........

BTW; it was indeed between the publishing of Speer #9 manual and the #11 Manual that many loads were retested with modern methods and reduced adhere to SAAMI standards. Many such "reduced loads" are in current Speer manuals Adhering to SAAMI MAPs. Note also the 32 S&WL was dropped from the #10 Speer manual and picked up again in the #11 manual with only lead bullet loads for the 98 gr Swaged WC for use in the Walther GSP pistol (the blow back target pistol).

[cold1]

Thank you for the info Larry.

[Outpost75]

I seldom disagree with Outpost75 (actually almost never!) but 3.5 gr of Bullseye is not "too hot for a .32 H&R mag" under a 95 gr cast bullet in Rugers or S&Ws. I have pressure tested 3.5 gr Bullseye under a 90 gr TL314-90-SWC and it runs at 17,000 psi +/-......the SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W...

The SAAMI MAP psi (15,000 psi) for the 32 S&WL is in deference to the blow back semi auto target guns made for WC match loads. Note the 32 S&W SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W is the same as for the 38 SPL; 17,000 psi. Loading the 32 S&WL to the same psi as the 38 SPL which the J frame S&W was made for back in Nonte's day is not a problem.

I've not pressure tested the Bullseye or the Unique load in the 32 S&WLs ......yet. Guess I'm going to have to........



Great info and thanks for clarification. My concern was more to seating depth in the H&R Mag case in the H&R revolvers and staying within SAAMI MAP. The Rugers can certainly take it. Mainly trying to urge caution for "the peanut gallery."

As always your comments on target and much appreciated.

[Larry Gibson]

Outpost75 brings up an excellent point; that of seating depth.

In recent tests attempting to determine which gives a higher pressure with a given load, cast or jacketed bullets of the same weight, in handgun cartridges I am finding the pressure produced is more related to seating depth than with PB, GC or jacketed bullets. A recent test with Green Dot in the 357 Magnum using the TL358-158 bullet a difference of .200" in seating depth resulted in over 10,000 psi increase.

FYI; the OAL is not the same as seating depth. As an example here is a photo of 4 bullets for the 44 magnum of 240 to 260 gr. Left to right they weight 240 gr, 260 gr 242 gr and 253 gr. Using 22 gr 2400 the left bullet is the lightest in weight yet gives the highest psi because it is seated the deepest. The "Keith" bullet on the right at 253 gr is seated the least in the case and gives the least psi. The actual weight of the bullet, within reason, appears to not be a factor.

239580

[Green Frog]

...and then the use of hollow base bullets complicates the seating depth comparison. What matters most is the case volume with the bullet in place. It makes my head hurt to try calculating how much space is there for the actual powder burn to generate pressure, which is why I choose to wimp out and use known loads with known components wherever possible... in little cases especially a little change in the amount the bullet affects this volume can make major pressure changes. Be careful out there! :cool:

Froggie

[Larry Gibson]

Right on Froggie. Unless you are very experienced and certain of what the components should do in the firearm used the best way is to work up loads as suggested in manuals for many, many years and use reputable data.