How is selling home PCed and reloaded ammo legal ???

[marek313]

I went to a gun show two weekends ago in PA and while walking around I found many vendors selling reloaded ammo. I saw that before with mostly FMJs but now I'm seeing more and more PCed bullets that were definitely home cast and PCed and then reloaded. Some of those looked ok but some were really crappy uneven PC, seated into brass so tight that you can see PC getting scraped while seating. Let me just say that i would never buy any of it but I was wondering how is it legal???
I didnt think selling reloaded ammo was legal unless you have FFL 03 license and I doubt most of these guys have it.

This of course leads to a question of who is responsible when this crappy ammo blows up a gun and hurts someone? Again I would never buy it or use it but I see a big legal hole here that might be problematic.

[RED BEAR]

I load all the ammo that goes in my guns period. Only other ammo i use is factory ammo in my carry gun

[Winger Ed.]

You need a FFL, I can't remember which one, maybe a class 6 to manufacture loaded ammo, and pay a excise tax on it.

After it's bought from the manufacturer, they can also resell it to people legally able to buy it.

As far as liability, that should be on the manufacturer,,,, in that situation-- good luck finding them.

[fatelk]

It's not legal. Well, yes and no. It's not legal to load and sell ammo without the requisite licensing and insurance, as a business. I don't think it's technically illegal for someone to sell leftover ammo from who-knows-where if it's just disposing of private property and not as a business.

I can't say that I've seen any unlicensed reloads being sold commercially at gun shows myself, in recent years. It's easy to find them being sold by average Joe selling off Grandpa's old stuff, or an estate haul. I agree with you though; I wouldn't do it, buy or sell. Too much risk/liability.

I have on occasion bought reloads at gun shows if they're cheap enough, but never to shoot. I'll pull them down for components. Just a couple weeks ago I bought a bag full of .300 H&H Mag ammo for cheap, obvious reloads. I've already got them pulled down. They were quite cheap and I can use the bullets. It turns out most of the brass was virgin, so it was a better deal than I expected.

There was another guy who had a table full of "Grandpa's old stuff": boxes and boxes full of ancient reloads, some with stickers on them from some long-forgotten commercial reloader, probably some local guy loading in his garage back in the 60's. Nothing was marked so I asked him about prices and he was wanting about 80% of new. He seemed offended when I pointed out that they were old reloads. "It's good ammo. See the sticker? Loaded by a professional!" Yeah, some guy in his garage 50 years ago with no insurance or recourse if it blows up your gun.

Poor quality PC reloads in zip-lock bags? I'd take them if they were free, because that's all they're worth. A rainy day project to pull them all down, use the primed brass, dump the bullets in the melting pot and the powder on the lawn. Selling them for anything other than components is foolish because of the liability, and buying them to shoot is foolish because of the risk.

[Walks]

The only reloaded ammo I've ever bought was from the OLD Long Beach Police Pistol Range. Next door to the old Long Beach Naval Hospital.
That was in the early/mid 1970's. I always filinched a few 38&45 cases before I dumped the empties in the bucket on the way out. Had to build up my own brass supply. I was a poor PO2/College student.

30yrs ago I prevented a buddy from buying a box of 500/.308 reloads at a Gun Show. The box was only marked: .7.62Nato-150grFMJ.
Asked the guy about why He didn't put his name&info on the box. Got a Very Negative & Foul answer.

Had another friend buy 1000rds, 45Auto reloads at a Gun Show. No-Name again. Blew up his gun.
Then he busted my impact bullet puller, breaking down over 900rds.

And I had my own gun blown up by someone else's reloads.
Learned 20 years ago to not loan out a Gun unless I could stand over the shooter and control the ammo going into my gun.

[L Erie Caster]

I believe if the show promoter has a license any one at the show can use his license. Other than that, I don’t think it is legal, but they will keep doing it until someone gets caught. Then the show promoter will be in legal trouble as well as the seller.
As I understand it the law states it can not be done for your livelihood. That confuses people who are not lawyers because they have a regular job and don’t realize any profit whatsoever adds to your livelihood.

[RogerDat]

There is a local commercial manufacturer of ammo with tables at local shows. Other than that only two places I see reloads offered are the estate sale vendors and this one older fellow that had small bags of mostly lead reloads. He was selling between 10 and 3 rounds per plastic bag for a pretty modest price. Many in "odd" calibers that someone might have just purchase a firearm chambered in. He also sold reloading and shooting equipment, brass, and the occasional supply of cast bullets also I suspect from estates sales.

I bought a few things from the older vendor, not the loaded ammo but did see others who bought it. I do think I did purchase a few rounds of something from him at one time or another but he did have a pretty solid reputation and it was as I recall a mild load in .303 British. He did at one time hook me up with Berdan de-priming tool and a box of primers for some WW2 ammo I wanted to reload. A more than fair price too I might add.

[jmort]

I believe that ITAR was eliminated for small scale non-export businesses.
So you would need at minimum, an 06 FFL

[EMC45]

FFL 06 and a bunch of insurance

[Traffer]

I am interested in this subject because (in my active imagination) someday I may be able to make competitive match grade 22lr ammo. It would be nice to have a way to put it into the hands of competition shooters without breaking any laws AND maybe even more importantly carry the necessary insurance and permits so people would have the confidence to actually shoot the stuff. (moderator, if you think this is a feeler thread, please delete it and don't kick me out)

[marek313]

I did see few legit vendors that were selling remanufactured ammo in plastic bags with ammo and vendor info on it but those were mostly FMJs and those looked fine to me (I still wouldnt shoot those). It was couple tables that had bunch of junk along with couple bags of PCed 9s and 45s that looked pretty bad but those were in ziplock bags with no info other then caliber and price marked with a sharpie. Those just looked bad from the get go. I'm assuming they will claim reselling someone elses reloads or real estate items as stated by others. At the same time those guys didnt look like the type worrying about liability and would def tell you off if you question their products so i didnt bother getting into an argument.

[Bazoo]

When I was younger I bought an MTM box for about 12 bucks at a local gun store. It had 50 reloaded 38 specials in it, I was told that I bought the box but was "given" the ammo with the purchase. The shop is still open and they don't sell reloads, guess he took it in with a gun and wanted to rid himself of it. Lost the box when my house burnt, but It was a neat vintage box in bright green.

[BigAlofPa.]

I had people ask me to sell them reloads. I declined. Told them im not perfect and i would not want to be responsible if they get injured because of a mistake.

[Bazoo]

I've had people want me to sell reloads too. I normally tell them you need a class 6 FFL to be legal. Sometimes I explain to them the cost per round is cheaper, but if you count your time, then it's cheaper to buy ammo.

[David2011]

I’ve offered to teach several people how to reload when they asked if I would reload for them. So far I’ve had one person and his sons take me up on the offer. Nobody else was willing to invest their time.

Jmort, I would love to see documentation that ITAR has been removed for non-export items. I haven’t been able to find anything on the subject.

[lar45]

You need the FFL to sell just bullets as well as loaded ammo.

[fredj338]

People that buy ammo from gun show vendors are like people that visit prostetutes. Ya really never know what you are going to come home with.

[RogerDat]

People that buy ammo from gun show vendors are like people that visit prostetutes. Ya really never know what you are going to come home with.

Yeah but if you bring some ammo back from the gun show it sure won't create the same level of "I'm going to kill you" rage in the dear wife. Good woman, righteously angry, force to not reckon with if you can possibly help it.

I have on a couple of occasions provided family with a box of rounds. I do those single stage, step at a time, 100% weigh every charge. When it is for me once I have the charge dialed in I check every 5th round or so and look in every case at the charge but don't have them all in a tray with a charge so I can compare looking for any that look higher or lower in the case compared to those around them. Have a couple of times made rounds that I gave away as "novelties" to friends. Those were powder coated in team colors. Or red, white, and blue. Made it clear I wasn't intending for them to be shot despite having loaded them with the same care I did my own rounds. Now come a zombie apocalypse of course you could use the rounds otherwise they were for showing not blowing.

I don't think there is a lot of money to be made loading ammo. Small firm can't compete with the economy of scale a company making a million rounds has. Odd bags of reloads from an estate sale? Pull down for sure.

[Traffer]

You need the FFL to sell just bullets as well as loaded ammo.

WHAT? Sorry I don't believe that.

[cat-mechanic]

As far as the government charging you for violating law for selling ammo that you made. it can and has happened. The Las Vegas shooter bought reloads from a guy in Mesa AZ. He is being charged with manufacturing without a license.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2018/08/22/douglas-haig-mesa-ammo-dealer-linked-las-vegas-shooter-charged/1069243002/

[JBinMN]

WHAT? Sorry I don't believe that.

Traffer,

It is explained pretty well in this article that you need the FFL 06 license to sell ammunition or the components to make ammunition, as well as being part of ITAR:

You can read for yourself here:
https://johnpierceesq.com/do-i-need-an-ffl-if-all-i-am-going-to-do-is-manufacture-and-sell-cast-bullets/

Here is the applicable US Codes ( Law):


Manufacturing Ammunition & Licensing according to the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/923


(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Attorney General. The application shall be in such form and contain only that information necessary to determine eligibility for licensing as the Attorney General shall by regulation prescribe and shall include a photograph and fingerprints of the applicant. Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:
(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer—
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices, a fee of $50 per year; or
(C) of ammunition for firearms, other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $10 per year.


Definition of what Ammunition is according to the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921


(17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.


Applicable ITAR info:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/chapter-I/subchapter-M


ITAR stands for the International Traffic in Arms Regulations which were promulgated to implement the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (AECA). The relevant section (emphasis added) is as follows:

Any person who engages in the United States in the business of either manufacturing or exporting defense articles or furnishing defense services is required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls. For the purpose of this subchapter, engaging in the business of manufacturing or exporting defense articles or furnishing defense services requires only one occasion of manufacturing or exporting a defense article or furnishing a defense service. Manufacturers who do not engage in exporting must nevertheless register.

As for what constitutes ‘defense articles’, 22 CFR 121.1 contains a complete listing under what is known as The United States Munitions List (USML). The relevant section is contained in Category III of the list in subsection f:

(1) The components, parts, accessories and attachments controlled in this category include, but are not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags (or other propellant charges), bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister rounds and submunitions therefor), boosters, firing components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for the defense articles controlled in this category.

The short answer is that, those licensed to manufacture and sell cast bullets are also required to register for ITAR and pay the registration fee.

[Traffer]

Traffer,

It is explained pretty well in this article that you need the FFL 06 license to sell ammunition or the components to make ammunition, as well as being part of ITAR:

You can read for yourself here:
https://johnpierceesq.com/do-i-need-an-ffl-if-all-i-am-going-to-do-is-manufacture-and-sell-cast-bullets/

Here is the applicable US Codes ( Law):


Manufacturing Ammunition & Licensing according to the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/923



Definition of what Ammunition is according to the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921



Applicable ITAR info:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/chapter-I/subchapter-M

I call foul on the Government. In a court of law they would LOSE the case EVERY TIME. Besides those bullets are actually "fishing weights" Just as you can shoot fishing weights out of a barrel you can shoot these things out of a barrel. I WOULD NOT hessitate to sell them without a stinking license.

[JBinMN]

I call foul on the Government. In a court of law they would LOSE the case EVERY TIME. Besides those bullets are actually "fishing weights" Just as you can shoot fishing weights out of a barrel you can shoot these things out of a barrel. I WOULD NOT hessitate to sell them without a stinking license.

Up to you...
;)

No skin off my ***. I was just sharing some info for ya. How ya use it is, like I said, "Up to you.".
;)

[David2011]

You need the FFL to sell just bullets as well as loaded ammo.

You need an 06 or 07 FFL to sell bullets or reloaded ammunition that you have manufactured. No FFL is required to buy at wholesale and resell at retail.


WHAT? Sorry I don't believe that.


Traffer,

It is explained pretty well in this article that you need the FFL 06 license to sell ammunition or the components to make ammunition, as well as being part of ITAR:

You can read for yourself here:
https://johnpierceesq.com/do-i-need-an-ffl-if-all-i-am-going-to-do-is-manufacture-and-sell-cast-bullets/

Here is the applicable US Codes ( Law):


Manufacturing Ammunition & Licensing according to the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/923



Definition of what Ammunition is according to the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921


Applicable ITAR info:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/chapter-I/subchapter-M

I believe Traffer is correct. All of JBinMN's references are for MANUFACTURING including cast bullets. A retailer that would not need an FFL to sell other items, say a fishing tackle store, can purchase and resell already manufactured bullets whether cast of jacketed and can purchase at wholesale and resell commercial ammunition without an FFL. Granted, it's been a while but I've bought .22 ammo at a convenience store that didn't sell firearms. I've seen centerfire ammunition and shotshells on the shelves of small stores in remote areas of NM, CO and AK that didn't sell firearms.

There's not an FFL type for reselling commercial ammunition or components.

[JBinMN]

FFL 06 – Manufacturer of Ammunition for Firearms Other Than Ammunition for Destructive Devices or Armor Piercing Ammunition.
Source:https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/types-federal-firearms-licenses-ffls

Well, above is the Name/description of what license the ATF thinks is necessary if you are making/manufacturing any ammunition(components are included), FFL 06 – Manufacturer of Ammunition for Firearms Other Than Ammunition for Destructive Devices or Armor Piercing Ammunition, and if folks want to ignore that and not get the ATF FFL -06 license and manufacture home PC'ed boolits, or any kind of projectiles for firearms & sell them, it is their *** in a sling if they are caught doing it & not mine, so I do not care, but that is the way it is right now.

If some one manufactures ammo or components & then sells them to the bait store,convenience store or whomever wholesale, for retail sales further on down the line, so be it, but the "origination point" of those goods( ammo-etc.) of the person(s) & place of business, be it in a factory, a barn or someones home shop, that person(s) need to have the FFL -06 for doing it or they would currently, as the rules/law stands, be breaking the law.

IMO... You don't have to like it, (I don't), & you can choose to ignore it( I don't), but it is the law & until it is changed, that is the way that it is, no matter how you seek to justify it in your mind that it is OK to do it.

I am going to go as far as to say that while it seems to make no sense, since the farmer that grows the corn for the corn liquor/alcohol is not required to have a license to grow & sell his/her corn, but the one who turns it into liquor/alcohol does,( Even if they do not intend to sell it, & even if it is for their own home use for burning & not consumption.) the current law is the current law & using the descriptions set in that US code as law, components are part of ammunition & ammunition being manufactured for sale must be licensed. If you are doing it for your own use, like casting/swaging for reloading, you do not require a license.

So, suit yourselves, but I don't plan on going to waste any more time trying to tell anyone what the laws say, since it is easily looked up for oneself. I brought the info & if ya don't like it, too **** bad, but that is the way it is...

So, either follow the current laws or not. Once again, that is, "Up to you.".

P.S. - I do not think that "trading", or "gifting" someone some ammo or the components, needs a license, so perhaps some of the folks who want to do that might be able to do so without a license, but it is still, "Up to you." if ya do it, or not.

[lightman]

It seems like it would be a thin line between reloading ammo for sale at a show and selling unknown "estate" ammo. Personally, I will only shoot reloaded ammo from a chosen few. Ammo from a gun show, NO WAY!!!

[JBinMN]

It seems like it would be a thin line between reloading ammo for sale at a show and selling unknown "estate" ammo. Personally, I will only shoot reloaded ammo from a chosen few. Ammo from a gun show, NO WAY!!!

Big enough of a line that it is mentioned in the FAQ description at the ATF website on whether one needs a license or not to reload.


Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a); 27 CFR 478.41]



Source:https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/person-who-reloads-ammunition-required-be-licensed-manufacturer

After a bit of looking, "Sales" of ammunition does not need a license, "Manufacturing" does.

(F11) Is a license required to en-gage in the business of selling small arms ammunition? No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only, but a manufacturer or an importer of am-munition must be licensed. [18 U.S.C. 922 (a)(1)(B)]
Source:https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/atf-p-5300-4pdf/download

Components of ammo is included in the "legal definition of "ammunition", so they are not illegal to sell without a license, but are illegal to sell without a license by the person(s)/company who manufactured them. So, for those looking for a "loop hole", will need to figure out how to get the components they manufacture into the hands of a seller without breaking the law.

I do not think the discussion of " evading laws", or any "loopholes" are allowed in this forum, but those who want to try can go right ahead, since it is once again, Up to you.".
;)

[Screwbolts]

Taxation Is Theft!!!

[Smoke4320]

ITAR is still in effect for MFG and gunsmithing

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/frank-miniter-how-trump-can-stop-democrats-from-unfairly-punishing-the-gun-industry

[lightman]

JB, I'm not arguing the law. The laws are pretty clear, and I guess I was not. What I meant was knowing whether a seller had loaded the ammo for sale or if he just "came by it". That seems like it would be hard to prove.

In the original post ammo loaded with PC'd bullets was mentioned. That leads one to think they loaded the ammo for sale, which would require a license.

[lightman]

JB, I'm not arguing the law. The laws are pretty clear, and I guess I was not. What I meant was knowing whether a seller had loaded the ammo for sale or if he just "came by it". That seems like it would be hard to prove.

In the original post ammo loaded with PC'd bullets was mentioned. That leads one to think they loaded the ammo for sale, which would require a license.

[trapper9260]

I had some that ask me to load some ammo for them I told them only if you buy all the supplies and if I do not have the dies you need to buy them also and we reload them together.Other wise I will not. My navy friend did it and I help him load for his M1 Granad and now he is happy. I show him how to do it all and he did the powder part and I help him with the rest. I show him to develop the load and work up to where he was happy with how it shoots. Others did not want to go with the deal. I told them about the laws and I will not stick my neck out to load for them . If they do it with me ok .Like my friend did.

[jmort]

ITAR is still in effect for MFG and gunsmithing

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/frank-miniter-how-trump-can-stop-democrats-from-unfairly-punishing-the-gun-industry

Sorry to hear that. Simple deal, call your local ATF office and they will tell you everything you need to know. I spoke with them about shotgun slugs, need FFL 06.
But "multi-projectile" shotgun projectiles, nothing needed.

[rbuck351]

I don't load for others but have let several others use my equipment to learn and load for there own use. I have cast for others but not for profit and have taught others to cast. Met some very nice folks that way and don't have to worry about liability or laws. I suppose one could trade his manufactured ammo parts for other things but selling is illegal. I have bought others reloads but only for the components as I will not shoot them.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I believe that part of the confusion here results from what you see on the tables at a gun show. There are usually a couple of vendors that are selling antique, obsolete, and partial boxes of left over ammo. Like a 20 round box of Peters .30-30 ammo that still contains 16 rounds. That's legal, as the vendor didn't manufacture it. Same with surplus military ammo. A license is required to mfg. ammo, but not to sell ammo, barring state and local laws, and the mfg.s were licensed.

Then there's the guy who's selling full boxes of newly reloaded ammo he loaded up in his basement. If he doesn't have a mfg. license, that's illegal.
Besides the fact that Uncle didn't collect the licensing fee, there's excise tax involved with the sale of new ammo. Also, you've got to be kind of loco to buy it because there's no liability insurance involved if you come up missing eyes or fingers.

The really grey area is the guy that is reselling reloaded ammo that he didn't reload. I suspect that as far as enforcement goes ATF looks at the quantity, just like with the guy selling firearms that doesn't have an FFL. Probably also technically illegal, but a "can of worms" for enforcement as it involves tracing it back to the source and making a determination about the status of the manufacturer.

[fatelk]

I’ve found over the years that offering to teach people how to reload and getting them set up for it is most often an exercise in futility. A tiny percentage ever actually take the time to continue on their own. I still offer when people ask though.

I’m convinced that some people just should not be reloaders at all, if they don’t have the necessary patience and attention to detail. I made the offer to a friend a while back, that he could come over with his own components and I’d help him load some rounds. It was pretty nerve-wracking to try to teach him how to load and at the same time make sure it was done right. He’s a great guy but I just don’t think he has the level of attention to detail for safe reloading.

[JBinMN]

JB, I'm not arguing the law. The laws are pretty clear, and I guess I was not. What I meant was knowing whether a seller had loaded the ammo for sale or if he just "came by it". That seems like it would be hard to prove.

In the original post ammo loaded with PC'd bullets was mentioned. That leads one to think they loaded the ammo for sale, which would require a license.

No worries. I understand what you are saying. I was posting for anyone who reads those post(s).
:)

[David2011]

I don't load for others but have let several others use my equipment to learn and load for there own use. I have cast for others but not for profit and have taught others to cast. Met some very nice folks that way and don't have to worry about liability or laws. I suppose one could trade his manufactured ammo parts for other things but selling is illegal. I have bought others reloads but only for the components as I will not shoot them.

There is probably no distinction between selling and trading since both entail receiving compensation. I have bought several boats that were large enough to have to stay in the water all the time. In every transaction the purchase was for $1.00 or $10.00 "and other good and valuable consideration," all written by yacht brokers. That 'good and valuable consideration' is a standard catch phrase that could be applied to trades.

I have traded one type of molded lead for another type of molded lead (ingots) but I will not sell or trade finished boolits. I have no problem with giving them away but even then it's more likely to be in "try it out" quantities; not feeding someone else's habit. One friend used to bring COWW ingots that we would melt, cast and size together. We split the bounty. I can't see how that would be selling. Some lawyer could probably see it differently.

[David2011]

No worries. I understand what you are saying. I was posting for anyone who reads those post(s).
:)

It's a shame we have to be so careful with the hobby we enjoy, particularly when cast boolits haven't been a viable military grade item for 100 years. Well, there were the Military Police revolvers that used cast .38 specials into the early '60s but that's more a law enforcement item than a combat item.

[Burnt Fingers]

WHAT? Sorry I don't believe that.

You need a FFL to sell bullets you have made.

[fatelk]

I have some cast bullets in a caliber I no longer use. They are very nice powder coated, gas checked bullets that I really hate to just throw in the pot and remelt. I haven't done it yet, but honestly would have no problem selling them at some point in the future. Why? I did not originally make them to sell, I'm not in the business of selling bullets, and it wouldn't be a part of my income any more than any other one-time sale of other personal property. Maybe that's a gray area for some folks, but on strict legal terms I don't think it is.

No, I won't say what caliber. :) They are not currently for sale, and this isn't a "feeler post".

[David2011]

By the executive fiat on gunsmiths being declared manufacturers it only takes one instance for them to become one. Is it worth the risk to sell your boolits just once? I’m no fan of the law as it stands but I won’t challenge it.

[T_McD]

It is just another example of an unenforceable law. I can sell coated bullets from Missouri Bullet, but not homemade cast from the same mold and coated with the same coating. Go ahead and point out the difference Mr Federal employee with no casting experience.

I can sell LAX remanufactured ammo, but not my reloaded ammo using the same components. Same argument.

I agree with whoever mentioned that until you are making an actual living on illegal sales, no one will likely notice.

Edit to add it’s still a foolish idea as who in their right mind buys ammo at a gun show??? Do you buy liquor there too?

[fatelk]

From a practical perspective (if not legal), bullets are different from loaded ammo. I have no problem buying random cast bullets at a gun show, if the price is right. If they look good and measure right for my application, I'll load them up and shoot them. The obvious difference is that it's pretty easy to measure and weigh a bullet, whereas a loaded round is a mystery if you didn't load it.

If I end up not using those gun show bullets that some unknown, unlicensed person cast in their garage 20 years ago, and eventually sell them to someone else, that's perfectly fine. If I cast them for myself 20 years ago, ended up not using them, selling off the gun that shoots them many years ago; it seems silly to me that I would even give a second thought to selling them. There's really no way any reasonable person could ever mistake that for "being in the business of" manufacturing ammo. It's wise to do your best to understand the law and stay well within it, but I think there are limits. There's no way I'm going to throw 10 pounds of beautiful gas-checked and powder coated .500 bullets into the pot and melt them down just because I don't have anything to shoot them anymore.

I'm not going to ever cast and sell bullets to make a profit, or even make them to sell at all. For one thing it's not worth my time. I sometimes have a hard enough time justifying making them for myself. When overtime is available at work, one day of overtime would pay for more cast bullets than I could make in a week. I would never even come close to the point where anyone could think I was in the business in any way. My point is just that when it comes to things like giving a few to friends or getting rid of something we don't use anymore, maybe we tend to overthink things.

[Traffer]

Someday I may get "into the business" of selling swaged 22lr bullets. I will not seek any licensing and if they take me away they will have to feed me in jail. When I get out ...right back to selling them. I would call them "fishing weights" Oh how I hate these stupid restrictive laws. If we all defied them they would cease.

[EDG]

You can advocate for breaking the law and get into a lot more trouble than you expect.
By avoiding the tax obligations you become a target of the IRS too. Once convicted of a felony your civil rights are toast and you will have to dispose of all firearms and ammo. All of that for a $50 license?


Someday I may get "into the business" of selling swaged 22lr bullets. I will not seek any licensing and if they take me away they will have to feed me in jail. When I get out ...right back to selling them. I would call them "fishing weights" Oh how I hate these stupid restrictive laws. If we all defied them they would cease.

[Gatch]

Someday I may get "into the business" of selling swaged 22lr bullets. I will not seek any licensing and if they take me away they will have to feed me in jail. When I get out ...right back to selling them. I would call them "fishing weights" Oh how I hate these stupid restrictive laws. If we all defied them they would cease.

I have no interest in telling you how to conduct yourself, but why would you not investigate and purchase a license ? What would be the point of setting yourself up to fail ? The legal fees for a trial alone would probably cost you more than what you might profit from sales of ammo on a small scale ?

[trooperdan]

I believe that ITAR was eliminated for small scale non-export businesses.
So you would need at minimum, an 06 FFL

Can you provide a source for this information? Great if true!

[JBinMN]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/121.1


Category III - Ammunition/Ordnance

(f) The following explains and amplifies the terms used in this category and elsewhere in this subchapter:

(1) The components, parts, accessories and attachments controlled in this category include, but are not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags (or other propellant charges), bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister rounds and submunitions therefor), boosters, firing components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for the defense articles controlled in this category.


Course 12
International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR)
Tutorial 1 - Introduction to ITAR and the U.S. Munitions List
https://www.sbir.gov/tutorials/itar/tutorial-1

https://www.williamsmullen.com/news/itar-guide-firearms-industry

http://thelearningmatrix.net/ITAR/ITAR%20TOOLBOX/FAQ's/Department%20of%20State%20Questions.pdf

[jaysouth]

Sorry to hear that. Simple deal, call your local ATF office and they will tell you everything you need to know. I spoke with them about shotgun slugs, need FFL 06.
But "multi-projectile" shotgun projectiles, nothing needed.

BATFE is not the state department and cannot speak for them.