45-70 hunting bullet recomendation

[JTodd]

Hi everyone,

Im looking for recommendations for a 45-70 hunting bullet. I believe what I want is a 400 (+/- 30 or so) grainer with a large blunt meplat. The bullet will be used for south eastern deer, hogs, and black bear. Ill be loading “marlin style loads” for my marlin 1895 (traditional non microgroove rifling). I understand that these high velocity loads are probably not necessary for terminal effect on the animals listed, I want the extra velocity for the sake of shooting flatter out to about 100yds. I would also hope to develop cowboy level loads with the same bullet.



So far, I have tried out the rcbs 405 gas check bullet, but they fall from my mold at roughly .4575, and my rifle slugs closer to .459. unfortunately, these lead severely and group at about the size of a pizza box at 100 yds. I have considered lapping this mold out..



As far as gas checks go, I have had very good results with plain base pistol bullets at magnum pressures and 1500 fps, but have very little experience with rifle loads in the 28000 psi and 1800 fps range. Are gas checks a must for these marlin style loads, or can plain base bullets do the job? If bullet designs that don’t use gas checks can perform well in this kind of role I would prefer to avoid gas checks, but Im not religious about it by any means.



Aluminum or iron molds would be my preference.



So, in summation, Im looking for a roughly 400 grain, .460 + hunting bullet for my marlin. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[Johnch]

LOL Simple as I use the 45/70 on lots of game
So far Ground Hog to deer

NOE 460 405 Gr RF
I have the 2 cavity Aluminum mold
But I am thinking of adding the HP version
I use the GC version , because "I" have lots of GC's and feel that it "Might" help LOL

Deer have been shot with the Marlin 1895 rifle and BFR revolver with this bullet
From 25 yards to 175 yards
All the deer had a short blood trail to follow

John

A nasty hole in both of lungs was a good reason LOL

[Johnch]

Oh the NOE bullet drops .4615 out of my mold and I size them to .460

John

[JTodd]

Johnch
Thanks for the reply! Ive had really great luck with NOE, and they are always the first place I look for aluminum gang molds. The bullet you are describing was actually my first pick out of everything Ive considered, but I didnt want to pull the conversation away from good choices I might not know about. Thanks! Happy hunting!

[bikerbeans]

You could PC and size bullets from the mold you have. You should be able to increase the diameter to 0.460". A harder alloy will also increase the OD a bit.

BB

[JTodd]

Bikerbeans,
Thanks! Ive never done any powder coating. I should have specified the alloy. The rcbs mould drops about .4575 with straight coww.

[bikerbeans]

If i can PC a boolit anyone can. Lots of good info on PC in the coating subforum.

BB

[Texas by God]

It's cheap enough to try the Lee 340 gr mould. They would help with the trajectory and still poke thru yon beast.

[shortlegs]

I use the lee 340. It drops from mold at 457 dia. so I powder coat it and it works great.

[JTodd]

Thanks guys! Ill probably go with the NOE mold, but I may throw in a lee mold as well seeing as they are pretty afordable. Ga is having a May 16-31 "hog season" where centerfire rifles will be legal on wmas. Im hoping to have a load worked up in time. Otherwise my trusty 30-06 will make another appearance. I would love to put my 1895 in general use as a 100 yd deer/hog/black bear rifle though!

[725]

NOE 460-395. (I think that's the copy of an old group buy 460-420). Fabulous bullet. Very accurate in every gun I've shot it through. Wide me plat, large lube grooves, gas checked or plain based, it a go-to bullet. Actually, almost anything out of a .45-70 is a good bullet for hunting. They all work very well. I've laid hogs, deer & bear low with that bullet. My buddies laugh and call it the matrix bullet because it just shuts the life force off.

[JTodd]

725,
Do you have any experience with this boolit with "marlin only style loads" at roughly 1800 fps or so? Do you use the plain base, or the gas checked version, or both? Any advice to help me make up my mind between pb and gas checked would be greatly appreciated! The results you are describing are exactly what Im hoping for. Thanks!

[725]

You can never go wrong with a gas checked bullet. Some times, actually, most times a plain based bullet is all you need or want. Cranking 400 grains up to 1800 fps is bruising on the body. The animals don't know the difference. Dead is dead. I normally hunt around 1400 fps, but that's me. I have loaded up for a few friends and they like it, but I'm glad they are touching off the trigger and not me. This bullet functions fine through my friend's Marlin, so, I'm guessing you'll have the same experience. It's a dandy of a bullet. Cast hard it goes in my .458 WM, cast from wheel weights it goes through my .45-70, and cast soft, it is absolutely stunning in my friends .45 Gonic. (Gonic is one of those ancient in-linners from the dawn of modern black powder shooting.). Can't help sounding like the old breakfast cereal commercial; "Try it, you'll like it." If you check, NOE probably mills molds that have both PB & GC cavities. Two for one is handy. Best of luck.

ps: NOE. 460-396 in their catalog.

[gumbo333]

There are all sorts of cast bollits available already cast, .459 & .460. Some are coated Hytek or PC. Gets you started. Or swap some of yours for a larger cast. But maybe you want to shoot only those you cast yourself, easy to see that as rewarding.

[osteodoc08]

405gr WFNGC of your choosing and 50-55gr Varget or 55-58gr Benchmark. Done.

[tdoor4570]

I shot a 405 gr. wheel weight cast with alox lube from an 1884 trapdoor never failed to kill , dead on the ground where they stood out to 200 yards...Load was 70 gr of pyrodex RS.

[dkf]

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405VG-D.png

or

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405V-D.png

[JTodd]

All,
Thanks for the posts and recomendations! I believe I will try out a few more options with the rcbs bullets (alloys, velocities, lubes, etc) just to verify that I really cant get them to shoot. If they wont shoot Ill probably order one of the NOE 460 396 wfn gc molds. Ill let you all know how it goes!

Ps- based on the wisdom several of you hace shared, I will probably stick closer to trapdoor level loads, or just start at trapdoor and move up until Im happy. No need to pound my shoulder out of socket, and 1800 fps isnt really much flatter than 1400 fps inside 100 yds anyhow.

[Norske]

The Sheriff in the ND county I lived in for 30 years was a 45-70 cast bullet hunter. He liked the Lyman 340gr HP for broadside shots, but intended to use a 405 grain SWC for head-on shots until he shot a really nice mule deer in the chest with the 405 grain solid. He got full-length penetration, almost every internal organ was ruptured, and the meat was inedible. The head and rack was about all of remaining value.

[AnthonyB]

Wise decision on the TD level loads. I worked up a 1800 fps or so combo with the RCBS bullet about twenty years ago and loaded 100 rounds. My son finally shot the last of them last summer. I will not make that mistake again.
Tony

[stubshaft]

I've shot a lot of hogs with that same RCBS boolit. It is the most accurate boolit out of both the micro-groove and Ballard rifling in my 1895's.