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WolfyW
03-23-2019, 05:48 PM
The question is this, what's a good substitute for sr4759 ?

BigAlofPa.
03-23-2019, 05:55 PM
67 IMR Co SR 4759 is supposed to the close. I have never tested it myself.

bmortell
03-23-2019, 06:35 PM
20gr of 2400 usually does quite well in 30-06, and burn rate is close even though they look very different.

murf205
03-24-2019, 09:34 AM
WolfyW, you are 1 of legions of handloaders who are asking that same question, myself included. Everyone will say Accurate 5744 but I have a hard time finding it and as a notoriously cheap ***, I have a hard time with the almost $40 per lb prices I have seen. I am down to my last 1/2 lb and since the discontinuance of 4759 which was the most accurate powder for my 45/70's. I did ask a very noted gunwriter with a lifetime of experience about using 2400 and he emphatically said NO, but there are a lot of pretty savy people here who have used it with no apparent problems.

seetrout
03-24-2019, 10:45 AM
According to Western powders burn rate chart SR4759 has the same burn rate as Accurate A-4100, Hodgdon Lil-gun, Ramshot Enforcer and Viht N-110.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf

murf205
03-24-2019, 04:08 PM
According to Western powders burn rate chart SR4759 has the same burn rate as Accurate A-4100, Hodgdon Lil-gun, Ramshot Enforcer and Viht N-110.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf

I have not tried any of those powders. Are they as bulky as 4759?

bmortell
03-24-2019, 04:25 PM
similar burn rate by itself does not mean its safe to use in all the same circumstances.

WolfyW
03-24-2019, 05:15 PM
30-06, 210 round nose gc cast boolit. Trying to duplicate results my late Dad loaded but didn't get to shoot. Tried them yesterday and they shot a nice .5 inch group at 50 yards benched (all the distance my club has). Dad left the specs incl. powder, just not primer.
He didn't hunt, really knew his stuff though so I'm not surprised. Into rifles and casting before i was a twinkle. Sad that powder was discontinued. Typed the OP coming back from the range. Did a little more research now and it sounds like that powder was a great case filler. I don't plan on using dacron so I'm guessing whatever powder I go with, a magnum primer may be the ticket ?
Manuel here lists H4895 for that as well, which I have. And Reloader 7.

Burnt Fingers
03-24-2019, 08:22 PM
similar burn rate by itself does not mean its safe to use in all the same circumstances.

Where's that like button?

seetrout
03-24-2019, 10:19 PM
I have not tried any of those powders. Are they as bulky as 4759?

I have no idea. I have never used any of those powders except 4759. I bought a lb of it about 25 yrs ago to make some reduced 100gr HP .270 loads for my uncle's .270 that wouldn't beat up my aunt when she shot groundhogs in the garden. Loaded maybe 50 rds out of the lb. probably less. still have the rest of the can.


similar burn rate by itself does not mean its safe to use in all the same circumstances.

No ****? I should always follow published recipee's in published reloading manuals? Well don't I feel like the south end of a north bound donkey! I was simply trying to give the OP a place to start looking for something similar, not suggesting that all are direct replacements although it is possible that one of them might be the same powder with a different name.

RedlegEd
03-24-2019, 10:33 PM
The question is this, what's a good substitute for sr4759 ?
Hi. Just so you know, Shooter's World (Lovex Powders) is working on a SR4759 clone. Not sure when they'll have it, but I know they are looking into it. While we're on the subject of Shooter's World, their Buffalo Rifle (Lovex D060-01) is almost an exact match for AA 5744, but much less expensive. I've been using it for cast loads in my .45-70s, .45 Colts, .260 Rem, and .30-06s. I also use AA5744 which I've compared with the Buffalo Rifle, and both have given me good results with almost the same charge recipes (+/- a few tenths of a grain.) Hope this helps. Ed

WehrmannsGeweher
03-24-2019, 10:49 PM
Trail Boss is not identical but gives good result with cast boolits. Otherwise, 4227 is my go to cast boolit powder.

ABJ
03-25-2019, 07:40 AM
For 30-06 reduced cast loads there are a lot of choices in the Lyman 4th cast handbook. Of those, IMR-4227, IMR-4198, IMR-4895, A-5744, A-2400 are the ones I've had the best luck with. For no dacron filler the 2400 gave the best groups followed by 5744. But yes you are right the 4759 has no equal.
Tony

murf205
03-25-2019, 10:22 AM
Wonderful news, I will give them a call to urge them along, thanks for the info.



Hi. Just so you know, Shooter's World (Lovex Powders) is working on a SR4759 clone. Not sure when they'll have it, but I know they are looking into it. While we're on the subject of Shooter's World, their Buffalo Rifle (Lovex D060-01) is almost an exact match for AA 5744, but much less expensive. I've been using it for cast loads in my .45-70s, .45 Colts, .260 Rem, and .30-06s. I also use AA5744 which I've compared with the Buffalo Rifle, and both have given me good results with almost the same charge recipes (+/- a few tenths of a grain.) Hope this helps. Ed

murf205
03-25-2019, 12:53 PM
Trail Boss is not identical but gives good result with cast boolits. Otherwise, 4227 is my go to cast boolit powder.

That powder is only a tic faster than 4759 and would probably be a bit closer to the bullet base. I know that there are some powders that are touted as not being position sensitive but it never hurts to strive for a more full case.

quilbilly
03-25-2019, 01:40 PM
In bottleneck cartridges, RE-7 is almost a universal from 222 to 338 WM. It may not be the best for an individual rifle barrel but it will get you close to where you want to be usually.

murf205
03-28-2019, 04:57 PM
Hi. Just so you know, Shooter's World (Lovex Powders) is working on a SR4759 clone. Not sure when they'll have it, but I know they are looking into it. While we're on the subject of Shooter's World, their Buffalo Rifle (Lovex D060-01) is almost an exact match for AA 5744, but much less expensive. I've been using it for cast loads in my .45-70s, .45 Colts, .260 Rem, and .30-06s. I also use AA5744 which I've compared with the Buffalo Rifle, and both have given me good results with almost the same charge recipes (+/- a few tenths of a grain.) Hope this helps. Ed

Is Buffalo Rifle as bulky as 5744? I am not opposed to using a Dacron filler if a powder gives the right kind of accuracy but it is a step I'd rather not use.

RedlegEd
03-28-2019, 05:35 PM
Is Buffalo Rifle as bulky as 5744? I am not opposed to using a Dacron filler if a powder gives the right kind of accuracy but it is a step I'd rather not use.
Hi! To my naked eye, yes...they are virtually identical. If you really need me to, I'll be happy to weigh it and give you the densities for each, but they'll be really close. Here's a couple of pics so you can see what I mean. Ed
238803
238804

Oily
03-28-2019, 11:43 PM
Buffalo rifle. great powder and much cleaner burning than 5744 and fills case more but not like SR4759. Seams to be very consistent.

RogerDat
03-28-2019, 11:58 PM
According to ADI the source manufacturer of SR4759 it has equivalents. ADI manufactures powder sold under other brand names and the equivalents chart gives their designation as well as the designation the other brands use for the same powder. Note they do say +/- 5% equivalent to the ADI version.

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/powder-equivalents/

They show these three powders as equivalent to SR4759


2400
AA4100
N110


For the times I have taken their data for loads and applied it to the equivalent powder it has provided good loads, I have also noted that in these discussions the experience of others tends to often have people suggesting a substitute powder that is listed as an equivalent powder by ADI. As always starting near minimum load and working up is advisable.

ADI also has some good load data. Requires getting the load data for the ADI designation and then finding a US brand equivalent but process of looking up load data and then finding the equivalent worked well for heavy 303 British bullet I was having trouble finding load data for.

murf205
03-29-2019, 07:40 PM
Hi! To my naked eye, yes...they are virtually identical. If you really need me to, I'll be happy to weigh it and give you the densities for each, but they'll be really close. Here's a couple of pics so you can see what I mean. Ed
238803
238804

Thanks for the pic, it revealed a lot about the configuration of the granules which indicate that it will "bulk" better than other powders of similar burn rate. That, along with the high recommendations of others is enough for me to give it a try. Now to try to find a local vendor. Again thanks.

RedlegEd
03-29-2019, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the pic, it revealed a lot about the configuration of the granules which indicate that it will "bulk" better than other powders of similar burn rate. That, along with the high recommendations of others is enough for me to give it a try. Now to try to find a local vendor. Again thanks.
Hi. I think you'll like it. Here's a link to their latest load data. (https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/shooters-world-manual.pdf) Ed

samari46
03-29-2019, 11:12 PM
I know it might sound like heresy but I use IMR4759 for cast bullet loads in a Finn model 27 made in 1935. 20.0gra behind lymans 314299. And if all the stars align a rebarreled Finn M39. Have yet to try it out in the 30-30 or the '06 but I'm sure it will be a good choice. I hope Lovex does bring a copy powder that will match its burning rate and fills the case. Frank

murf205
03-30-2019, 03:26 PM
Hi. I think you'll like it. Here's a link to their latest load data. (https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/shooters-world-manual.pdf) Ed

How much does Buffalo Rifle go for a lb where you are? My lgs does not carry it and said they never heard of it--that figures.

RedlegEd
03-30-2019, 03:32 PM
I know it might sound like heresy but I use IMR4759 for cast bullet loads in a Finn model 27 made in 1935. 20.0gra behind lymans 314299. And if all the stars align a rebarreled Finn M39. Have yet to try it out in the 30-30 or the '06 but I'm sure it will be a good choice. I hope Lovex does bring a copy powder that will match its burning rate and fills the case. Frank

Hi Frank. Not heresy, just that IMR SR 4759 is currently unobtanium since Hodgdon stopped carrying/importing it. That why the questions about a suitable replacement as it was a very popular powder in the cast community. I wish I had gotten some back then, but I didn't know about it and now it's too late. :(. Ed

RedlegEd
03-30-2019, 03:44 PM
How much does Buffalo Rifle go for a lb where you are? My lgs does not carry it and said they never heard of it--that figures.

Hi Murf! Unfortunately, there are a lot of LGS' that don't carry Shooter's World powders. I've had much better luck on line...here is a listing from Graf & Sons for Buffalo Rifle @ $22/lb (https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/77194) as compared to $36/lb for AA5744. If you keep an eye open or sign up for their emails, Graf often has free hazmat or reduced price sales where buying the powder online becomes affordable. Midsouth Shooters Supply also carries it (https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00130buffalo1/shooters-world-buffalo-rifle-smokeless-powder-1-lb-by-lovex). Hope this helps. Ed

Toymaker
03-30-2019, 04:54 PM
In my 45-70 AA5744 gave me nearly identical results to IMR4759 using either the Lyman 459-193 or the Hoch 500 Semi-Spritzer.

murf205
04-03-2019, 10:49 AM
;)
Hi Murf! Unfortunately, there are a lot of LGS' that don't carry Shooter's World powders. I've had much better luck on line...here is a listing from Graf & Sons for Buffalo Rifle @ $22/lb (https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/77194) as compared to $36/lb for AA5744. If you keep an eye open or sign up for their emails, Graf often has free hazmat or reduced price sales where buying the powder online becomes affordable. Midsouth Shooters Supply also carries it (https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00130buffalo1/shooters-world-buffalo-rifle-smokeless-powder-1-lb-by-lovex). Hope this helps. Ed

You just gave me a brain fart! I have to go to Vanderbilt Urology to see my cancer Dr. next Monday and its only 45 miles up to Clarksville to Midsouth. Road trip with a cause.

RedlegEd
04-09-2019, 09:12 PM
;)

You just gave me a brain fart! I have to go to Vanderbilt Urology to see my cancer Dr. next Monday and its only 45 miles up to Clarksville to Midsouth. Road trip with a cause.

Hi Murf. Hope your Dr visit went well. Did you get a chance to get your powder? Ed

Shuz
04-12-2019, 12:57 PM
In bottleneck cartridges, RE-7 is almost a universal from 222 to 338 WM. It may not be the best for an individual rifle barrel but it will get you close to where you want to be usually.

I've had very good accuracy down thru the years with cast boolits using Reloder 7 in the.250 Savage and the .444 Marlin.

Paul B
04-13-2019, 06:38 PM
I've been out of the cast bullet scene since my wife's stroke three years ago and her ultimate passing this last March. I'm trying to get back into the game so when I learned SR4759 was gone someone on another site said 5744 was a good one. I hit my local LGS the other day and they had exactly one pound on the shelf. They don't anymore. I'll probably do my last ever elk hunt this coming December as I had already been booked. No use losing the deposit. but at 80 years old, tramping the hills at 9,000" MSL ain't gonna be much fun or easy. I've decided to sell off a bunch of guns and keep maybe the ten top favorites, if that many. Mostly gonna work with a Browning B70 in 30-06 shooting the Lyman #311284 and maybe its sister bullet, the #311282. The mold I have is marked 311284, a two cavity but one mold is the 311282. Guess someone special ordered it that way. Dunno how that one will fly. We'll just have to see. Anyway, I'm thinking of trying bullets sized to .310" and .311" and which on that rifle likes. I'll also be shooting a few in a Browning 1895, a clone of the Winchester 1895 with that same bullet.

A thought did cross my mind though. SR4759 came in IIRC 1/2 pound cans and 4 pound jugs. The 5744 comes in a one pound can and 8 pound jugs so even if 5744 is more expensive wouldn't the fact that there is twice as much powder in the can kind of take up the slack?
Paul B.

WRideout
04-17-2019, 07:54 AM
I acquired two partial one-pound jugs of SR4759 from an estate sale, which I am currently hoarding pending experiments to see which caliber it works best in. As far as 30-06 loads, in my personal experience with my Interarms Mark X, it did not like any of the traditional -06 powders; 3031, 4064, etc. Then I found that H4895 worked really well with the Lyman 311284 boolit, but even better was an OLD jug of IMR 4350, which turned in 1" groups at 100 yards. Unfortunately, the 4350 has all been loaded into my last box of reloads, so I may just save that for deer season.

Wayne

murf205
04-17-2019, 09:36 PM
Hi Murf. Hope your Dr visit went well. Did you get a chance to get your powder? Ed

No I didn't, had to turn around and head home quicker than I figured. There will be a gun show in my area in the pretty near future and a vendor that I know will be there and he has a good selection of powder. I'll call him and tell him to bring me a couple of pounds. BYW, thanks for asking, but the news was good at the DR.

Mal Paso
04-18-2019, 12:52 AM
Of all the substitutes mentioned only N110 is single base like 4759 though it's not nearly as bulky.

lotech
04-18-2019, 08:44 AM
Burn rate comparison alone won't tell you much. The 110-type powder(s) recommended here would be a poor and perhaps quite dangerous choice for .30-06. A Lyman cast bullet book would be a good place to start. While SR4759 can't be replaced, I'm pretty sure it's performance/accuracy can be duplicated, maybe even exceeded with some judicious experimentation. We have a glut of powders available today.