Henry .357 & heavy bullets

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have Rossi 92s in .357 and it seems their twist rate won't stabilize 200 grain bullets. Does anyone have a Henry in .357? How does it handle heavy bullets?

[crappie-hunter]

My Rossi 92 357 mag will not stabilize the Lee 200gr, but my Henry that has been re-chambered to 357Max will stabilize them with maximum charges of every powder that has been tried. Most likely because of the 357Max being able to obtain more velocity. I do not yet have any crono data to know what velocity I am getting out of the Max., but an educated guess would be 1800 to 1900 FPS.

I have one of those yellow Contender load manuals that list a 200gr bullet from a 14" contender in 357 Max in the 1700-1900 FPS range.

The Lee 200gr is the only cast bullet I have tried in the Max chambering, but the Henry does very well with 158gr jacket also.

[NSB]

The .357mag won't do well with heavy bullets even with a faster twist. You simply can't get the velocity needed in that case capacity to stabilize a heavy bullet. It's even "iffy" with a Max. (You need a fast twist in the .357max to get decent accuracy). As stated above, the velocity isn't there to get the rpm for stability.

[crappie-hunter]

Henry lists their twist on the 357mag at 1-16, that is one of the new single shot rifles,which is what I have.

I just noticed the OP did not specify which Henry rifle ,and I just thought of the single shot ,because that is what I am shooting.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

[NSB]

1:16 is probably the best twist you can use in a .357mag or max. It stabilizes bullets from 180g and down pretty well. Above that weight and you run into some problems, even with the .357max. With the mag it becomes even more of a problem. The difference in case capacity becomes more critical with the mag case when you put an even longer (heavier) bullet in the case. I've had a few .357mag rifles and two .357max rifles and I've kept pretty good records on a lot of loads I've experimented with over the last ten years of so. To date I've been able to get some pretty good loads out of the mag with 180g being the heaviest, and with the max I can get some "decent", but not best loads up to 200g. Even with the max my most accurate loads are with bullets at 160g and down. FWIW, I have had twists in the max guns of 1:16 and 1:20. It's noticeable how much better the 1:16 barrel shot.

[Hannibal]

To the OP - what distance can you shoot at?

[Jedman]

Sorry, Didn't read carefully enough.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

To the OP - what distance can you shoot at?

Usually 50 - 100 yds. But I can stretch out to 400 - 600 if I really want to.

The reason I ask is that I have a Lyman 358430 which seems to work fairly well in Ruger Blackhawks. Perhaps that is only because I don't shoot the revolvers much past 25 yards. Of course once I try to shoot it from a levergun it doesn't do so well at all. I thought it was because the Rossis have a real slow twist - not sure what it is but it is greater than 1:20". But maybe even the 1:16 is too slow for the 195 grainer.

[northmn]

I have not tried bullets heavier than 158 in my Rossi because it does have a slower twist. Same as their pistols I believe. I am not surprised about crappie-hunters response that it will not handle the 200 grain Lee bullet. A heavier bullet should work with the right alloy in a 357. When you shoot cast finding alloys is part of the game, if not the main part. A 200 grain bullet pushed at 1300 fps is said to have killed a lot of game and men when used in a BP 44-40. Personally I just use the 357 with loads developed for the 357 but many like to push the envelope.

I also have a Marlin 35Remington. I would think the 357 Max out of a rifle would be close? The 35R has taken 5 deer for me and so far I am quite satisfied with it.

DEP

[NSB]

Rossi's are 1:20 twist. Referencing the idea of ally making a difference....it doesn't. It's all about weight and bullet length. Even the .357max won't stabilize a 200g bullet regardless of the velocity it's being driven at. I have an MGM barrel in 1:20 that I got just to see if it would stabilize heavier bullets. After two years and dozens of trials I can assure you it won't. Some of the loads put in the gun were driven at pretty high velocities. My 1:16 barrel will stabilize them "decent" , but not great. If you have an idea that you want to shoot heavy bullets in a .357mag, you're going to need at least a 1:16 in the Max and I'd suggest a 1:14 in the Mag. Having shot somewhere around 60+ deer with both .357mag and max, I can't see any purpose in using heavy bullets. A 158g is optimum and a 180 will work "good enough". Beyond that it's diminishing returns. There's only so much room in a case.

[Groo]

Groo here
Its all about RPM...
The revolver twist is between 1/14 to 1/18 inch the rifles run in the 1/30 to 1/38.
A revolver with a 4 to 6 in barrel will shoot a 200 gr cast at about 800fps and make it stable .[old Super Police load]
if you have a 1/18 twist the rpm is about 32,000 rpm.
To get that from a 1/38 twist you need about 1700fps.
To get that from a 1/30 twist you need about 1275fps.[ {(Fps x 12inch) / twist} x60 sec= rpm

You can see that a rifle is not intended to shoot boolets [especially long/heavy ones] slow........
A 180 gr bullet is much easier to get up to the required speed than 200gr.
This might be why we don't often see the 200gr load from the factory any more..

[onelight]

160 to 170 I consider heavy for my 357 rossi

[tazman]

Henry lists their twist on the 357mag at 1-16, that is one of the new single shot rifles,which is what I have.

I just noticed the OP did not specify which Henry rifle ,and I just thought of the single shot ,because that is what I am shooting.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

The twist rate for the Henry Big Boy is 1-16 also. This according to the Henry website.

[rockydoc]

I have read that the Rossi .357 has a twist rate of 1 in 30 something and I have heard many reports they don't stabilize heavy bullets. My Winchester 1892 has a twist of 1 in 18.25" and shoots 190 grain (Hunter's Supply hard cast) quite accurately at subsonic speeds (1080fps). I know this at variance to some statements that no .357 will stabilize heavy bullets. If "heavy" doesn't start until you get over 190gr, that may be true, but 190gr .358" bullets are heavy to me. And they shoot quite well.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

My Henry BB rifle length, in 357, shoots my 180 gr load all day long as accuracy as I can shoot it. I am talking repeatedly hitting shards of clay pigeons in the 100 yard berm at my local range with the factory iron sights.

If you want my load, I can look it up for you.

And just for your information, this load shoots more accurately, and smoother, than either factory or hand loaded 158/125 gr loads from this rifle.

[rockydoc]

Bubba w/a 45/70 :
I would love to have that load. I appreciate your offer to share it. I have the M-P 357 Carbine mould which casts a 180 grain RNF with gas check and lube that ought to work just fine. My Win 92 has a 20" barrel, which should be fine.
Thanks.

[AnthonyB]

Bubba, I am also interested.
Tony

[megasupermagnum]

195 grain bullets stabilize just fine in 357 mag for me, no reason the Lee 200 grain shouldn't. I've shot the 190g SSK (195 actual) from 1000-1250 fps in 357 magnum with round holes and good accuracy. I've shot them faster in 357 maximum too. A rifle of the same twist rate should be able to stabilize even heavier bullets. Plenty of guys love the 215 grain SWC, even in handguns.

[curioushooter]

158-180 grains is the ideal weight range for 357 mag and whitetails. I've yet to have a 158 that didn't pass through. I use 180s in the max mostly because you get better performance in the contender with heavier bullets. I have fired 200 grainers
..not worth it in my opinion...like I said before...158s have always passed through

The same exact load: 158 grain XTP, 18.5 grains 300MP, federal 100 primer, starline brass. Does 1375-1400 FPS from my 5" 686, 1600 FPS from 10" contender, and 1850 FPS from my 18.5" Remlin.

21.5 grains of lil gun will push a 180xtp to 1800 in my 10" max contender.

Every one of these is 16:1 if I am not mistaken and I've never had stability issues.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Sorry for forgetting I posted here, guys. I will get that load posted very shortly for you.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Bubba w/a 45/70 :
I would love to have that load. I appreciate your offer to share it. I have the M-P 357 Carbine mould which casts a 180 grain RNF with gas check and lube that ought to work just fine. My Win 92 has a 20" barrel, which should be fine.
Thanks.

180gr Ranch Dog Lee group buy mold tumble lube with White Label lube
9.3gr AA #9
CCI 500 primer (and I use whichever I have on hand Winchester or CCI)

My load notes showed this as low book in the Hornady #7 manual, but it just plain works for me. My Ruger LCR absolutely loves it, my GP100 shoots it good, and it worked good through my Rossi levers that have went down rriver due to the Henry.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Bubba, I am also interested.
Tony


Tony, load notes are above.

And one more thing, there are no gas checks on the boolit.