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Bait O' Eggs
03-08-2019, 12:05 AM
I am back to the fountain of knowledge to be told what I am doing wrong again :-(

Bought a Lee 6 position 55 grain 223 mold for loading for my AR. I cast up a couple thousand bullets, powder coated with Smokes Carolina Blue

https://i.imgur.com/UXm8avb.jpg


I seem to have pretty good adhesion as when I smash them, the powder predominately still sticks

https://i.imgur.com/drF3yUs.jpg

I ran the cast and powder coated bullets thru a 0.224 sizer, and didnt plan on using a gas check. Do I need to run them thru a 0.223, I went a thousands over thinking it would get me a bit more velocity, I suspect this is my issue, I size my 9 mm a thousands over and it works fine. Maybe this slight oversizing doesnt work in the 223/5.56 casings?????


When I seat the bullet in the casing, the brass cuts up under the powder and gets a piece of the lead and powder on the outside of the casing neck. I loaded a handful to go shoot, they look like this :-(:-(:-(


https://i.imgur.com/ontb6VR.jpg

I tried to see if they would feed in the AR and they wont as I suspected. I take the time and effort to clean the necks off and they still wont load in the rifle into full battery. The bolt carrier is about 1/4 inch short of getting into the firing position.

I clean the lead ring and powder off the neck, (which is a time consuming thing), they still wont feed into the gun. I try to seat the bullets deeper into the casings

https://i.imgur.com/fQbNptD.jpg

And they still dont feed.

I am a bit confused, I took a handful of the casings I have prepped and seat a factory bullet, and they cycle thru the gun just fine. What did I do wrong with these bullets I cast and coated and now wont go in the casings clean, and wont cycle thru the gun. I suspect I need to run them thru a smaller sizer, but before I expend a bunch of effort, I thought I could get some opinions. Thanks

trails4u
03-08-2019, 12:15 AM
Two things.....as a starting point. Shaving lead is always bad, so you'd probably be well served by a M-type die to set your neck diameter appropriately to accept the diameter of bullet you're trying to seat. Flaring might work...but from your pics, it looks like most of your necks are still flared to some extent. Which leads to the second of the two starting points. Consider a Lee FCD, or some other way of eliminating the flare at the case neck.

Also suspect that your casted diameter + coating might be exceeding your throat diameter.

Walks
03-08-2019, 12:20 AM
trails4u is correct. An M-die is the way to go. I use them for EVERY pistol cartridge.
And EVERY Rifle cartridge I LOAD LEAD bullets into.

243winxb
03-08-2019, 12:22 AM
A loaded rounds outside neck diameter should not be larger then .253"

A Lyman "M" die should be used to open the case mouth before seating a bullet.

Back the seating die out/up so its not crimping.

I dont powder, just something that may help.

Chainsaw.
03-08-2019, 09:34 AM
Ise a deburring tool on the inside of the case mouth to just take the edge off, then either flare very slightly or the above mentioned lyman M die.

As far as sizing you should definitely not go to .223 in my opinion. I think most folks run 224 for ARs.

Be patient. They are picky guns.

Sig556r
03-08-2019, 09:55 AM
Size to .224" after PC, open the case mouth a tad (or use M-type die as many here suggest) to avoid shavings, make sure to crimp back the bell (LFCD works best), test fit in gauge or your rifle, then fire away.

upnorthwis
03-08-2019, 10:16 AM
I've never found non-GC bullets to work in any of my 7, 8, or 9" twist rifles. With GC=2-1/2" @ 100, non-GC= can't hold minute of berm.

JonB_in_Glencoe
03-08-2019, 11:46 AM
Once you get the problem solved of the PC being scraped off during seating, then you need to find the COAL needed for your gun, your samples look like they are not seated near deep enough. Make dummy rounds of various lengths, to see what will chamber. If your PC is thick, it fattens the nose, making it necessary to seat even deeper than you would if they weren't PC'd.

If the nose of that boolit is fat (over .219 without PC), then you'd be better off not PCing your boolits. After all that is figured out, and you shoot some, be sure to try some with GC... I bet you'll find the accuracy is much better if there is a GC on them.

RogerDat
03-08-2019, 12:05 PM
The M die or NOE Exapnder plug to give a precise neck size to the brass is what I would suggest. Anytime the lead is getting shaved by the case it means things are not "right" and unlikely to work as hoped. http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=88

Whatever diameter you size your bullets to the case neck has to match up with it, a small amount smaller for neck tension, with a small flare to ease insertion. I like the NOE plugs, they have just a slight bevel at the end to provide a precise amount of flare and consistent tension at the neck. I presume a Lyman M die provides the same. I can feel the consistency of bullet seating using a the NOE expander plug die. It made enough difference that just as an earlier poster said I have them for pretty much every caliber now.

The COAL is also a good point. My cast .223 is shorter than commercial due to the fatter nose. Not a lot but sitting side by each you can see it. Also +1 on you will probably want a gas check. The 223 can be reloaded and provide decent ammo with cast lead by using a good alloy, gas check, and PC.

Dieselhorses
03-08-2019, 12:22 PM
Aside from powder coating then sizing to .224, flaring necks just enough and using FCD, I usually seat to 2.1" on all my 223 rounds (1:8 twist). I never use gc's, never get leading in barrel or gas tube. Also looks like there are some "holidays" in pc'd bullets.

toallmy
03-08-2019, 12:29 PM
On the issue of flaring the case to accommodate a larger diameter cast Boolit with out damaging the cast boolits during seating . I previously used Lyman m dies to expand the case mouth , but because the Lyman m dies are made for jacketed bullets I needed to have a custom expander made for all of my m dies . I have started using the NOE expander plugs in the lee dies now on all my cast loading simply because they can be ordered in the size you need to properly seat the cast boolits of your choice . Very reasonably priced also .

Tackleberry41
03-08-2019, 01:48 PM
I bought the NOE expanders, easy to swap out, cheaper than a caliber specific Mdie. I load that same Lee55 gr in 223 and 22 hornet, no shaving if expanded properly, little bit of flare. If your shooting slow can get away w no GC, depends really.

Taterhead
03-08-2019, 04:55 PM
Good advice so far. Here is a bit of a recap.

For starters, the .224" bullet is trying to seat into a neck that is probably sized to an interior diameter of .221".

Step 1. Get an expander plug/ball that sets the neck ID no smaller than .222". The NOE plugs ARE great. Uses the Lee Universal expander. This would likely be the right size.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=565_88&products_id=1111&osCsid=v3jt6j2ec9lt1vp9ng3fm2ls62

Step 2. The case mouth should be opened a little. The NOE plug will do that if you prefer an M profile, or the Lee Universal will give a little bell if that's your preference. I prefer an M.

Step 3. Turn out the seating die more so that the case mouth isn't closing AT ALL by the internal crimp profile of the die.

Also might consider touching up the PC process so that the coating on the nose is of a smoother and more uniform thickness. Lumpy shoulders and nose will cause varying datum references with respect to the lands.

flyingmonkey35
03-08-2019, 05:42 PM
I agree with flair the mouth of the case just a bit. That will prevent the scrappage .

Use a factory crimp die. To take the flair out.

And load low and slow.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

white eagle
03-08-2019, 06:27 PM
chamfer the case necks

NWPilgrim
03-08-2019, 08:59 PM
The failure to feed completely into the chamber is likely due to the blunt nose being seated so far out. You can’t use an OAL specified for spitzer bullets when loading blunt nose like that. I would screw the seating stem in 1/4 turn, then try to chamber, and repeat until it chambers easily. Likely need to seat at least 1/8” more deeply, probably more.

castalott
03-08-2019, 09:16 PM
This may have been mentioned but start with one 'dummy' case.... Try the fit of the sized case in the chamber...then try it with the flair or m die.... then seat the bullet long and drop it in the chamber... measure from the muzzle with a cleaning rod for a maximum bullet length and then bolt closed measurement without a case. . Compare the 2 lengths and arrive at a max OAL of your cartridge. Shorten that up an 1/8 or so and load one. If it doesn't chamber, seat the bullet deeper until it does or start over.... Oh ya....Everything above is good too.....

Good Luck

David2011
03-10-2019, 11:36 PM
Once you get the problem solved of the PC being scraped off during seating, then you need to find the COAL needed for your gun, your samples look like they are not seated near deep enough. Make dummy rounds of various lengths, to see what will chamber. If your PC is thick, it fattens the nose, making it necessary to seat even deeper than you would if they weren't PC'd.

If the nose of that boolit is fat (over .219 without PC), then you'd be better off not PCing your boolits. After all that is figured out, and you shoot some, be sure to try some with GC... I bet you'll find the accuracy is much better if there is a GC on them.

Another issue regarding length is that this is a flat nosed boolit. The ogive and not the nose should dictate the OAL of the cartridge. The ogive of this boolit appears to be much farther forward than on a FMJ bullet of the same weight. To determine how long that boolit can be loaded in your rifle try this:

You will need a wooden dowel or brass rod smaller than the bore. (the "stick")

Pull the back pin and open the rifle or separate the upper from the lower entirely. Remove the bolt carrier group.
Insert a coated boolit into the chamber and hold it forward in the chamber against the riflings with the eraser end of a pencil. This boolit needs to be free of lumps and "boogers" on the coating but should be of typical coating thickness.
Slide the stick down the bore and hold it against the front the boolit.
Using a razor blade or sharp pencil mark the stick where it exits the bore.
Remove the boolit and stick.
Reassemble the rifle with the bolt carrier group in place.
Place the stick in the bore again and push it against the bolt face. Mark the stick again where it exits the bore.
Remove the stick and measure the distance between the two marks. That is your maximum overall length. You will probably want to seat it a few thousandths shorter than that.

It will take into consideration the flat meplat because the measurement is based on where the ogive touches the rifling.

243winxb
03-11-2019, 07:39 AM
Bait O' Eggs- Last Activity - 03-09-2019 10:15 AM

I guess he went fishing. No reply.

Jack Stanley
03-11-2019, 07:18 PM
Or maybe still fooling with the ammo .

Jack

Bait O' Eggs
03-12-2019, 10:14 AM
I have read the responses and appreciate the comments. Work has decided to block this website, (something about guns) so I only get a chance in the evening to read and was gone for the weekend.

I did some measuring, and will have to flare the necks to get bullets seated. I have been loading the couple thousand factory bullets I have, will get back to loading cast bullets when those run out.

Thanks to all