Hunting varmits w/.308....

[dlbarr]

...like coyotes, groundhogs...anybody do this? What size CB and what mould recommended?

[bmortell]

groundhogs probably recommend a howitzer, ive hit them with 4400fps j-words and they can still walk afterword's with no organs to speak of.

[Bazoo]

I shot a groundhog once with a 270weatherby magnum. It all but skint him.

[bmortell]

on a more serious note it really depends how mild or quiet a load your looking for. some like the 90gr pistol designs at 1kfps for critters, or you could use a more standard weight at more like 1500. either way id pick a good size meplat and soft lead. personally ive used lee 170gr at 38 wadcutter speeds for squirell and critters because its as quiet as a 22 with a much bigger bullet but you probably want a bit more speed if you don't want it to drop fast. that's the lightest mold I had at the time but you can make most any work reduced as long as your twist rate supports it.

[barrabruce]

I’m hoping the ness safety bullet with the cavity filled with wax.
Paper patched with soft alloy and a case full of medium burn rate powder in a 30-30 (2000fps)will do something.
Hoping for a little expansion on waabbit sized game.
Don’t know if that would help you thou.
:smile:

[trapper9260]

I have taken them with cast in my 22-250 without any problems it drop in its tracks. I have not yet shot them with a 30cal .Will in time .

[725]

dlbar,
Have thought about the same thing. I'm thinking of using about 115 cast and a mild charge. Haven't worked out any details, but will pay attention to this thread in case a real answer comes over.
I have made a .308, 125 gr. Sierra load of less than 50.0 gr's of H-414 that is very accurate. We have coyotes out in western Maryland and I hope to go after a few.

[barrabruce]

May help if you can tell what you are looking for.
Quiet and close quarter stuff or medium long range.
A few grains of bullseye and a 150-180 grn bullet will give most things a awefull head ache up close.
How far do you want to go?
A 150-170 grn would be the norm but 130’s seem to have come in vogue at present.
I paper patch my high velocity loads as I can use simple alloys and no special voodoo lubes gas checks etc.
Simply works for what I want to do.

The lee soup can is supposed to be quite good but I have never used it.
The 308240 150 is accurate in my gun.
The 308403 pope bullet is accurate as well.
About a hand span size group at 300 metres. Holdover is huge but it bucks the wind well with some verticle stringing showing up.

[Sig556r]

I have taken them with cast in my 22-250 without any problems it drop in its tracks. I have not yet shot them with a 30cal .Will in time .

How fast are you pushing your .22 CBs (PC'd/lubed? & how heavy?) in your 22-250?
TIA

[5Shot]

One thing to think about is ricochets (with groundhogs/gophers)...big bullets that don't explode on impact will be skipping along for a while.

[Reverend Al]

One thing to think about is ricochets (with groundhogs/gophers)...big bullets that don't explode on impact will be skipping along for a while.

That was my thought too ... you'll have to look carefully at your background area to see where any misses or ricochet's might go. Big boolits can go a long way ... and still do a lot of damage.

[quilbilly]

If you are hunting to take hides, most any boolit will do if the terminal velocity is under 1500 fps to minimize pelt damage.

[country gent]

I have loaded 125 grn ballistic tip noslers in 308 and 300 win mag for wood chucks. Very spectacular hits on them. These were pretty much full power / velocity loads for distance hunting of the varmints. For a light load a 100-125 grn cast lead bullet at around 1300-1500 fps should work well.
At home we shot woodchucks from the roof of the lean to on the barn. Shots would reach from 100 yds to a little over 400. The 22-250 and swift really shined here but the big guns pressed into use did well also. The cast loads will be accepted easier with the quieter report also when hunting others property.

[Tripplebeards]

I’ve shot pronghorns with 125 grain nosler ballistic tips out of my 300 RUM at 3950fps. They made coffee can size holes completely through them. Same with my buddy using them out if a 30-06 on deer with max loads. You can shoot anything with anything. I’d tell tell you to pick a smaller calibers, 223 to 243. My buddy shot a tote last year with Hornady factory loaded red tipped ammo. Don’t remember what grain...165 or 8? Blew a fist size hole through it.

Guess it just depends on how much destruction and stopping power you want.

Here’s what a 265 grain GC, PC, Lyman devastator cast hollow point did loaded a 1750 FPS out of my Ruger 77/44 using AC COWW on a rabbit a 136 yards. If your saving pelts a hard solid boolit will probably be better on hides at slow speeds but I’m sure you’ll get runners. If you don’t care and want destruction like ballistic tips I’m guessing a pure soft HP with a GC and pc to keep it from leading and ran fast enough for explosive results. I loaded up a bunch of 7.5 Bh devastators at 1700 FPS VS the 13.4 BH ac COWW I used on this rabbit. Can’t wait to see the varmints get hit like they stepped on dynamite!

http://i.imgur.com/H0vst66.jpg

[popper]

I'd be looking at a 150 or so gr mould FP. Something you can load full or light. Fast for yotes and long shots, slow for close and plinking. Most 308 are 1:10 but a 1:12 might do better for what you want. I'm using a 31-142C in my BO and 30/30(for plinking). Nose is designed for 308W, I shortened for less weight. Could get in a GC & PB mould. RD & 041 style are good hunters but BC is terrible.

[trapper9260]

How fast are you pushing your .22 CBs (PC'd/lubed? & how heavy?) in your 22-250?
TIA

I did not check how fast I push them. It is the mold of Lyman 225646 55gr GC Size and lube .In Rem 700.

[Texas by God]

I can't hit crows at 300 yards with cast and if I could ricochets would be a concern with .30 cal- the smallest I cast for. But for close range coyotes or pigs heck yeah. I like my 22-250, .243, and 25-06 with jacketed only. They are easy to hit small targets way out there and the correct bullet breaks up on impact. Instead of continuing into a cow, house, or worse. Out West in the wide open it would be fun to Quigley some p-dawgs with cast.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[dlbarr]

Appreciate all the input. I really don't know much about any caliber outside of 45/70 & 45LC. But I just bought a .308 barrel for my handi rifle and thought I'd like to try it for critters other than deer/elk. I guess I was hoping for load data using a lighter bullet but, like I said, I don't really know about this caliber range w/lighter projectile....anyway, whatever other input is available - I'm still listening. Thanks

[trapper9260]

What is the twist of the barrel? that would help for some one to help you better.

[popper]

All the load books have good resource for 308W. With the light handi, 130-150gr GC is lower recoil and you can get 2500 fps easy. BC will be ~ 0.3 for any FP boolits. Ballistic prog. will give trajectory & energy. You can carry jax or cast in the pocket, chose what load you want. You could load 100-110 gr but it doesn't leave much in the neck and a long jump to the lands. You only get one shot at the yote so impact and accuracy are important. Haven't seen a G.H. since I was a kid. Ricochet is a problem cast or jax.

[megasupermagnum]

Not with a cast bullet, but IMR 3031 and a 125 grain Sierra. It's not a load I would use if saving pelts. Exit hole is about fist sized. No worse than an 80 grain bullet in a 6mm. I've heard if you slow these bullets down to 30-30 levels they perform more like a big game bullet. If using cast, I'd use whatever is most accurate. RN, FP, HP, I don't think it will matter. The Lee 170 grain shoots good for me.

[Kimber1911]

I shot a woodchuck at 75 yards with a 300 wsm, it was about 12 feet long after that!

[skeettx]

308 Win, Lyman 311465, Hornady Crimp on Gas Check, Javelina Lube,
20 to 24 grains of 4227
depending on what your gun likes, do a ladder load.

I use LC Match brass and CCI 200 primers

I orient the powder just behind the bullet and easily shoot
5 shot one inch groups at 100 yards

[Minerat]

I shot a coyote with a 110 j word SP once. It kinda looked like the rabbit. Maybe if it had been in the chest it would not have been so distructive. In all honesty it was loaded hot so may have not made any difference. Shot a ground rat (prairie dog) with a 139gr 7mm mag once. Red vapor best describes the result.

Have not tried cast as I have a 17HH that is more powder efficient the 30 cal.

[Tripplebeards]

If it was in the chest you probably could fit a king can loosely in its butt.lol it’s fun to blow up coyotes unless your saving pelts. I’ve sadly wrecked a few kit fox with lead BB’s. I’ve leaned to lead them or just aim a half foot or so in front of their heads even when they’re standing still for less pellet contact.

As much as I like cast I’d tell you if you really want to use it for pelt saving a slow, hard boolit that will poke right through them will cause less damage but I will garantee your going to get runners just like you would be using a FMJ. If you don’t care about pelts 110 gr vmax or 125 gr NBT. Blow em up and slam them to the ground bullets. 60 grain vmax loaded at 2850/2950fps in my 223’s are magic on pelts. You don’t see an entrance and if it exits bullet size entrance to fifty cent sized exits. 70 grain NBT loaded at 3650 FPS out of my 243 is the hammer of Thor just like the 223 round but if you hit a bone in or out you can clap in the hole.

No matter what bullet you use for coyotes I would expect fist sized holes in and or out from a 308 more often than not unless it’s slowed way down which defeats the purpose being your going to get runners. After all they’re just dirty coyotes, blast away!...and post some pics. What ever boolit you choose to use will work because imo a 308 is overkill.

[dlbarr]

What is the twist of the barrel? that would help for some one to help you better.

THAT is a great question...I do not know. It is one of the NEF replacement barrels made for the now-out-of-business-and-out-of-production NEF Handi Rifle.

[seetrout]

I would start here if I were you. Lots of good info in this sticky.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

[longbow]

I haven't used it on a critter but my Mihec 316410 130 gr. HP from my .303 blows up milk jugs full of water pretty impressively to 100 yards anyway. I haven't shot it further. I have the plain base version so velocity is limited but so far accuracy and destruction have been quite impressive. I have some a friend cast that are GC base so will push those harder and shoot farther.

With the deep HP pin there is little left of a boolit when it hits a milk jug at 100 yards. I stacked 4 up and the boolit was fragmented in the first one with just small pieces penetrating. And remember, that is a PB version at moderate velocity. I'd have to guess that if accuracy was still good to 200 yards that would be about the limit at the lower velocity.

If you want long range shooting you'll be into gas check shank for sure and maybe paper patched. if you are happy keeping ranges under 200 yards that changes things.

As mentioned, the Ness Safety Bullet is another choice and it was designed not to ricochet. it is a close range only boolit though as it is a deep HP wadcutter so poor BC... but it blows up easily! There is a group buy on for that one right now. And there was a group buy recently for the 311410 so Mihec should have some leftovers.

Longbow

[Bigslug]

NOE/Ranch Dog gas check, tumble lube bullet designed specicfically for the .308's neck & standard SAAMI throat:http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30_325&osCsid=hlstvtd666908vt0hmhq417kk7

My understanding is Arsenal Molds makes this one as well.

Can be driven pretty hard, the big meplat displaces rather forcefully, and since the slug was designed specifically for the .308, seating depth for feeding and accuracy has been a no-brainer.. The velocity ceiling isn't as high with cast as jacketed, so compensating with extra mass is not a bad call.

[dverna]

You have a great reason to get a nice little .223 bolt action and have some fun. Buy the 55 gr SP Hornady bullets in bulk (https://www.armorally.com/shop/hornady-22-caliber-55gr-spire-point/) for a cheap but effective bullet that will be more accurate than cast. Cheap brass, not much powder and a range of 250+ yards. With little chance of a ricochet.

Sure, you can make the .308 work with some caveats (reduced range, less accuracy, less expansion, more time needed to make accurate bullets, higher risk of ricochet)....but it is nice to have the right tool. You will never regret acquiring a .223. I know I will never be without one.

[popper]

little chance of a ricochet Why is cast worse than jax? Physics sure doesn't allude to any difference.

[Tripplebeards]

Guess It all depends on the speed and how soft your alloy is. Kinda like a spit wad vs a bowling ball hitting the same target. A lot more energy and the energy to keep on trucking with the heavier boolit imo. If the OP is going to use their 308,like most, which is going to be a couple times at max just to try it who cares. But if you are a die hard varmint and predator hunter jacketed ammo and a smaller caliber is in their future If the OP really is going to shoot prairie dogs at 300/500 yards all day long. A lead boolit on called in coyote at bow range it’s not going to matter. A running coyote at a couple hundred yards be prepaired to lead into the next county and you’ll still hit behind it with a cast load under 2000 FPS. I’ll aim 10’ in from of them on a full run at a couple hundred yards and still hit 2/3 minute of coyote behind them. Don’t want rain on your parade but you have to be realistic with what your plans are. Good luck! Sounds fun. I pondere the same. I have a Ruger 77/44 that shoots sub MOA with cast. Would I use it for my primary varmint and predator rifle. No way in heck. It will be fun to plink a few and them I’ll go right back to my 3800 FPS j words that shoot cloverleaves all day long and is a lazer with no hold over out to 325 yards. I’ll save my cast for plinking, big game, self defense, and occasional varmint and predator hunting...just for kicks...to say it did it. If it were me I’d save up for a 223, 22-250,or 243 and shoot j words for varmints. Now a days you can buy 223 bulk ammo cheaper than you can reload it. Besides this, there is going to be less recoil and flatter trajectory for all day fun shooting. Yes, you can download the 308 but it’s going to so slow you’ll be aimming a county mile above you target at long distances when sighted in close.

[megasupermagnum]

I shot a good number of those blazing fast loads. I shot out my 6mm remington with 58 grain V max's. It was kind of cool having a lazer beam, but it takes it's toll. Copper fouling was horrible, and while it was a used gun, I didn't even get 1000 rounds before the barrel was gone. The throat is gone, it looks like a torch hit it for the first inch.

I've gone to 125 grain bullets in 308 winchester at about 3150 fps. I don't miss the 6mm at all, it just sits in the closet. The difference in drop at 300 yards is negligible to me, maybe a couple inches. Neither was good for pelts, the 58 grain bullets blew a big hole in the entrance, while the 125's blow a big hole on the exit.

I'm not a die hard varmint hunter either, it's just a necessary evil to me to help nesting birds and other animals.

[Tripplebeards]

Yep, those 125 gr 308’s make big mess as well. It seems like there is never a right answer for caliber and bullet choice for saving pelts. That’s why I switched bb shot and a 12 gauge and became a better hunter learning how to call them into arms reach. My average called coyote and harvested lately has been 10 to 25 yards. I do like my lazer beam rifles yotes though. Never have to worry about hold over 99.9% of the time. I’m not a varmint hunter, just predators.

[dverna]

little chance of a ricochet Why is cast worse than jax? Physics sure doesn't allude to any difference.

popper, if you are commenting on my post wrt to the .223, here is the rationale.

The little .224 bullets for varmint shooting are made to expand rapidly. Light jackets and high RPM will reduce the chance of a ricochet. The 50 gr SX and Blitz bullets I used to use in the .222 cannot be driven over 3300 fps (IIRC) as they may not make it to the target.

[bmortell]

well with jacketed you can get compressed powder metal core bullets that are definitely different than a cast lead bullet as far as ricochets. if I didn't have lots of woods behind my house id probably use those for critters instead of cast.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

I have killed all manner of varmints with .308s.

They work fine.

http://i.imgur.com/4tUKn0e.jpg (https://imgur.com/4tUKn0e)

http://i.imgur.com/hWXupAW.jpg (https://imgur.com/hWXupAW)

http://i.imgur.com/S2W2LM2.jpg (https://imgur.com/S2W2LM2)

[sixshot]

Many years ago I had a Remington 308 Sendero & a 6.5X20 Leupold on top. Using 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips a Rock Chucks didn' stand a chance inside 400 yds & the launch on impact was pretty impressive. Switching to 168 gr match bullets with prepped brass & 4064 powder & you could should very small groups way out there.
A good 223 is pretty impressive also with the right combination but if you want to save pelts you'll have to choose your bullets wisely..... or do a lot of sewing.

Dick