Trouble for India indians shooting here?

[ghh3rd]

We have been ‘offshored’ where I work, at a large company. That is, most of our processes are being done in India, and most of the remaining employees here are on visas from India.

Although I was pissed about it happening, I’ve come to realize that Indians are good people. Many of the Americans at work shoot, and wanted to take some Indians shooting . Someone warned us that they could get into serious trouble if they got caught shooting here.

I don’t understand why they would be in trouble, since I have often talked to foreigners at the ranges that I frequent.

Any thoughts?

[Bird]

Tell them, the Indians, to get a hunting license. That should cover the legal issue of shooting a firearm.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922 Read down the page to the section referring to non immigrant visas.

Here is part of the relative section.
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

[EMC45]

Indians are great people. Very loyal and friendly. Take them shooting. I don't think it would be any different then if they went to a gun range and rented a firearm right? You may end up with some life-long friends.

[bedbugbilly]

I have no dog in this fight - and personally, I don't see an issue with doing it.

I find it ironic though . . that this question has to be asked in regards to people who are LEGALLY in this country . . . but the newest gun background check law trying to be passed by the Left in the house . . . according to the news this morning . . . has a clause in it in regards to illegal aliens who attempt to purchase a firearm without their "want to pass" background check cannot be reported to the Feds? In face, Pelosi was livid that some conservative Dems actually voted against it.

I hope you get your question answered and are able to show some good old American hospitality to those you want to who are here legally and the way it is supposed to be done. I'm sure for many of them it would be a great experience and a fun day of good old fellowship among human beings. Good luck and hope it all works out for all of you.

[lefty o]

i highly doubt there is an issue with taking them shooting. just dont sell them your guns.

[mold maker]

Illegal immigrants don't seem to have a problem acquiring weapons and ammo, why should your legal friends?

[tommag]

There may be a state issue. In Washington state, it used to be illegal for non citizens to purchase a firearm. Not sure if it still is.

[RU shooter]

Take them ,it is no different than taking them to play pool or darts . They are not trying to buy the weapon or carry it / take it home with them they are here legally . When in doubt make a call to the sheriffs office and ask

[Larry Gibson]

Over the years I've taken a lot of foreign nationals to ranges and out onto public land shooting. They are not buying the guns nor the ammo so there is not problem. Lots of foreigners from Japan, India, Korea, Philippines and China, etc. come to Arizona by the bus load from Las Vegas to visit the Grand Canyon. They stop at a range along the way and pay big bucks to shoot handguns, rifles, shotguns and machineguns up through 50 caliber.......all very legally.

[reddog81]

How are they going to get in trouble? Corporate policy, FL state law, US federal law, or some Indian law? Without knowing what the person is talking about it’s impossible to guess.

There’s nothing in Florida law or US law that would prevent you from allowing them to shoot your guns at a range in Florida.. A corporate policy would be very odd and would probably apply to all employees and not be legal. I don’t know anything about laws in India but I’d be surprised if such a law existed.

[xs11jack]

To start with find out what your company policy is and then check to see what the Indians company is. If your company is against your activity you might be out of a job.
Ole Jack

[nicholst55]

Check your state laws. Some have restrictions against non-resident aliens possessing firearms. That shouldn't apply to resident aliens.

[LUBEDUDE]

We have been..................>.......... Someone warned us that they could get into serious trouble if they got caught shooting here.
....................


I’m thinking that there may be confusion here with hunting. Since Hinduism is the primary religion in India, Hindus are vegetarian and the religion frowns on killing creatures.

[JBinMN]

Indian law allows citizens to own and carry guns, but it is not a right enshrined in the constitution.Aug 1, 2016

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/india-had-the-one-of-the-strictest-gun-laws-in-the-world-it-just-got-tighter/2016/08/01/affd9422-51da-11e6-b652-315ae5d4d4dd_story.html

It may be that while visiting here, like on a visa,etc., there may be laws against their "owning" firearms, but may not be illegal to "fire"/"operate" them. Particularly on a "range".

More info:


What are the firearms possession rules for non-U.S. citizens?

It is a class C felony for any person who is not a citizen of the United States to carry or possess any firearm, unless the person: 1) Is a lawful permanent resident; 2) has obtained a valid alien firearm license pursuant to RCW 9.41.173; or 3) meets the requirements of RCW 9.41.175.

A citizen of Canada may carry or possess any firearm so long as he/she possesses: Valid entry documentation, an approved U.S. Department of Justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens—if required under federal law, a valid hunting license, or an invitation to participate in a trade show or sport-shooting event being conducted in Washington or in close proximity.

A nonimmigrant alien, who is not a resident of Washington or a citizen of Canada, may carry or possess any firearm without having first obtained an alien firearm license if the nonimmigrant alien possesses: A valid passport and visa showing he/she is in the country legally, an approved U.S. Department of Justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens—if required under federal law, a valid hunting license, or an invitation to participate in a trade show or sport-shooting event being conducted in Washington or in close proximity.
Source:https://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/118/What+are+the+firearms+possession+rules+for+non-U.S.+citizens%3F

If one really wants to know more. Some research to find out the facts about such things would be the best thing to do. Particularly to prevent oneself from getting in more "hot water" than one would like. Or, not...
;)

G'Luck! & I hope you have fun taking them shooting!
;)

[BAGTIC]

ALL Hindus are not vegetarian any more than all Jews are pork phobic.

[NyFirefighter357]

I remembered this court case:

https://www.alipac.us/f12/illegal-aliens-can-have-gun-rights-appeals-court-rules-322489/


Illegal aliens can have gun rights, appeals court rules

Unlawful immigrants can have gun rights, appeals court rules

By Bruce Vielmetti of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 24, 2015 4:43 p.m.

In the case of a Milwaukee man deported over a single .22 caliber cartridge, a federal appeals court ruled last week that even unlawful immigrants can be part of the "the public" that enjoys a Second Amendment right to keep a gun for self defense.

The U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said even undocumented immigrants can be part of "the people" protected by the Bill of Rights, though it upheld the man's conviction on a specific law that prohibits most such persons from having guns.

"It is now clear that the Second Amendment right to bear arms is no second-class entitlement, (and) we see no principled way to carve out the Second Amendment and say that the unauthorized (or maybe all noncitizens) are excluded," Judge Diane Wood wrote for a panel that included judges Richard Easterbrook and Joel Flaum.

"No language in the Amendment supports such a conclusion, nor, as we have said, does a broader consideration of the Bill of Rights."

Because four other federal circuit courts have come to the opposite conclusion, legal commentators were quick to suggest the issue of whether undocumented immigrants have Second Amendment rights could now be headed for the U.S. Supreme Court.

While rejecting the idea that undocumented immigrants could never have any rights under the Second Amendment, Wood noted that even for citizens, those rights are not unlimited. She found that a federal law tailored to keep guns out of the hands of undocumented immigrants — like gun restrictions imposed on felons and those convicted of domestic violence — was constitutional, and upheld the conviction on those grounds.

According to the opinion:
Mariano Meza-Rodriguez's parents brought him to the U.S. from Mexico when he was 4. He grew up in Milwaukee and attended Milwaukee Public Schools, but he never became a citizen or obtained papers allowing him to remain in the U.S. legally.

A federal law makes it illegal for someone in that status, what the court called an "unauthorized immigrant," to possess firearms or ammunition. The prohibition also covers people in the U.S. on non-immigrant visas.

The 7th Circuit found such restrictions advanced the government's interest in controlling crime, because people without documentation are harder to find and could more easily evade authorities.

Meza-Rodriguez was arrested in 2012 following a bar fight . Though some witnesses had said Meza-Rodriguez may have had a gun earlier in the night, all police found was the single .22 round. He was indicted on the federal charge.

Meza-Rodriguez moved for dismissal on the grounds the charge interfered with his Second Amendment right to bear arms for self defense. Prosecutors said that he had no such rights as an undocumented immigrant, and U.S. District Judge Rudolph Randa agreed.

Meza-Rodriguez pleaded guilty and was sentenced to time served, but also deported to Mexico. Now a felon, he cannot ever be legally admitted to the U.S.
Because a victory on appeal would give Meza-Rodriguez at least a chance of readmission to the U.S., the court said, his appeal was not rendered moot by his deportation.

The opinion cites other cases that attached Fourth Amendment and 14th Amendment rights to unauthorized immigrants when they have substantial connections to the U.S., and found Meza-Rodriguez's ties to be sufficient.

The government argued that Meza-Rodriguez's "unsavory traits, including his multiple brushes with the law, failure to file tax returns, and lack of a steady job, demonstrate that he has not sufficiently accepted the obligations of living in American society."

The 7th Circuit disagreed, but did find that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited, and upheld the restriction on unauthorized immigrants' possession of weapons and ammunition on narrower grounds, equating it to gun possession bans imposed on the mentally ill, felons and those convicted of domestic violence.

In a concurring opinion, Judge Flaum joined the result but said he would not go as far saying undocumented immigrants might have Second Amendment protections, since the court didn't need to address that question to decide Meza-Rodriguez's case.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/u...322737461.html

[NyFirefighter357]

Now this case out of Denver went the opposite way.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/court-says-illegal-immigrants-cant-have-guns

Court Says Illegal Immigrants Can't Have Guns

Tuesday, 08 May 2012 01:04 PM

A federal appeals court says illegal immigrants don't have a right to own firearms under the U.S. Constitution.

Emmanuel Huitron-Guizar of Wyoming pleaded guilty to being an illegal immigrant in possession of firearms after his arrest last year. He was ordered held by immigration authorities at the Natrona County Detention Center in Wyoming.

An attorney for Huitron-Guizar appealed the case, saying illegal immigrants are not excluded from possessing firearms like felons and people who are mentally ill, and should have the same rights as U.S. citizens to buy a gun for hunting and protection.

The 10th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in Denver ruled Monday that illegal immigrants have only limited protection under the Constitution.

Huitron-Guizar's attorney didn't return a call seeking comment.

[iomskp]

I have a bit to do with the local Sikh community, quite a few of them have cane farms and are very keen shooters out of necessity because of wild pigs and the problems they cause to the cane. The greater majority are great people and an asset to our community.

[justashooter]

Indians are great people. Very loyal and friendly.

having lived and worked in india, i can say that indians in small quantities in a western country are like pakis in same. in small numbers they generally behave politely. when they are en masse things are different. with my very own eyes i saw human slavery in north india and in pakistan; in both places it is perfectly legal and accepted in the culture. unsurprisingly, in these muslim influenced areas it is the women who are the registered slaves, as well as de-facto slaves.

physical and sexual abuse of children and women is common in both countries, and male homosexuality and pedastery is a cultural norm in pakistan. fraud is common, and honesty in business is uncommon.

a friend who works in the US embassy in dehli says that they have a list of over 8000 fraudulent universities that have been referenced in H1b applications. this is well known, but many frauds get visas anyway, which explains why so many indian engineers are incompetent in US jobs on H1b.

writing this is not racism. it is expounding verifiable fact.

in America we still have a right to speak facts. in europe saying things like this is already considered "hate speach". god protect our grandchildren's future from socialism and oppressive government.