Heaviest gr boolit out of a 1895? 45-70

[Target4fun]

I have read both my 1895s have 1-20 twist and im sure at a certain point it fails to stabilize. My guess is 460 to 500? But just a guess

Im calling on yalls expertise and experience of what is the heaviest you can go before you really start to lose accuracy in a major way.

You may be asking... why so heavy?

The goal is for a suppressed subsonic hunting round. Dont worry im not cutting my dads mint 1970s 1895 is going to be left as is. I bought a 2nd newer 1895 just for this suppressed project. So it has the ballard style rifling just FYI.

I have purchased a kit to lap and slug the barrel from buffalo bullets so that will tell me the bore diameter to start with.

So what is the heaviest you have got to stabilize out of your 1895?

Thanks in advance for your experience on heavy loads out of an 1895!

Chris

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[beagle]

Second on the 550s. I've used the Lyman 462560 in mine...and they will feed. Don't leave much powder space though./beagle

[Target4fun]

Thanks ill look for a 550!

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[W.R.Buchanan]

You won't be able to shoot more than 1 a month so no need for a lot of them. 7 lb gun!

Randy

[Target4fun]

Nah im not but suppressed takes a lot of the kick out also not looking at going more than 1000 fps gonna try to stay sub sonic.



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[Target4fun]

Any ideas on good designs in this weight. I prefer gang molds but there seemed to be pretty limited options so beggars cant be choosers.

I get what yall are saying about recoil, i appreciate the heads up. My plan was sub sonic hunting rounds that can pack a punch. If you havent shot suppressed try it. I wish i had been buying cans years ago. My wife doesnt like any more recoil than 223 gas gun. With my buddies 338 suppressed she says oh this one is nice it doesn't kick much. Ha felt like a 223, then again it also wasnt a featherweight rifle, but still 338 is a brusier normally. After that I knew i had to have one ...

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[Bmp4510]

Jack Lambert had a great article on quiet, heavy 45-70 loads.

https://www.jacklambert.com/2014/01/quiet-without-the-can-hunting-quietly-without-a-suppressor/

I followed his recommendations and others, with the goal to have the quietest, non-suppressed 45-70 I could find, while still be able to take a pig down. Also went cheap, so I bought a Lee 500g mold 459-500-3r and ordered a custom .459 push through sizer directly from Lee. It is a pointed style bullets, so it was just a one shot deal from a tube fed magazine.

If I remember correctly, some people were putting the OAL so that while a lever action could load the round, you couldn’t eject a loaded round. Once a round was loaded, you had to fire the gun to unload it, or disassemble the rifle and pull the bolt out. I didn’t care for that type of situation.

I was using light loads of Trail Boss, some I figured with the reduce pressure, I could seat the bullet deeper in the case. I loaded a dummy round, and just kept sinking the bullet further and further in, until the 1895 would safely eject the unfixed cartridge.

I had a blast at the range. I downloaded a dB meter for my iPhone, and while not completely scientific, it gave me general data to compare. I got the lowest load down to 485fps. Much quieter that the 22 Buckmark pistol I brought for comparison. Just slightly louder than 22” barrel on my Remington pump 22.

I ended up adding a 24” 45-70 barrel to my TC Encore, hoping the loads would be quieter than the 18” barrel 1895. It really did appear to be any quieter with the shorter barrel, and I didn’t gain any FPS in the longer Encore barrel.

Good luck on your quest.


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[Bird]

Tried 500g bullet in 1-20'' twist Miroko/Winchester. It did not like it.

[Target4fun]

Bmp4510 thanks for all the info and link. Yeah sounds like its gonna be pretty quiet when its all done.

The 22 lr with a 4.5 inch barrel on my ruger yas a barrel short enough that standard bulk 22 lr comes out just under subsonic. So its super quiet, zero recoil and a blast to shoot. 22 can is only like 400 dead air mask. Only thing that sucks is wait time. But id wish i had done it sooner, might not be so hard of hearing.

Also thanks for letting me know what molds work and dont work. Still searching for a heavy 45 70 mold maybe a used lyman 550 grn mold will pop up. Wish they made that without the GC

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[njc110381]

I'm running 500gr Lee gas checked out of my 1895. They shoot quite well. My load is 36gr of RL10x and seated to maximum OAL for the action. You should probably work up to that to be safe if you decide to use it. I've also loaded them subsonic with Unique, but I don't remember the charge weight.

[Target4fun]

I'm running 500gr Lee gas checked out of my 1895. They shoot quite well. My load is 36gr of RL10x and seated to maximum OAL for the action. You should probably work up to that to be safe if you decide to use it. I've also loaded them subsonic with Unique, but I don't remember the charge weight.I'm guessing thats some kinda round or flat bullet? BMP qas working with a pointed one.

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[Tom Myers]

Any ideas on good designs in this weight. I prefer gang molds but there seemed to be pretty limited options so beggars cant be choosers.


I am using a 3 cavity N.O.E 4Cavity 459-535-RN (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42_142&products_id=1107&osCsid=kh91rjdre8nc1jl84fjkkbd2v2)
in a Pedersoli Sharps.

This is a record of the second 100 yard target I shot with this bullet.
'Nuff said.

Click image for a larger version
237029

[Target4fun]

I wonder if that noe gang mold is still available. Nice group! Especially for 8 shots. Impressive.

Ill try to find that one. You shooting out if an 1895?

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[Target4fun]

Sorry didnt see that thought we were talking 1895s as thats what i am looking for. Bmp is shooting single shot pointed out of his 1895. I try to not assume nor judge.

Thanks anyways

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[Target4fun]

Yup I agree, rn isnt for me either not in my lever gun. But to each is own.

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[MT Chambers]

For the Marlin I have a 555gr. FP GC, shoots good, kicks good.

[Target4fun]

For the Marlin I have a 555gr. FP GC, shoots good, kicks good.Any idea who makes that mold? Im still trying to track one down in that weight range.

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[Tom Myers]

I wonder if that noe gang mold is still available. Nice group! Especially for 8 shots. Impressive.

Ill try to find that one. You shooting out if an 1895?

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N.O.E has 5 three cavities and 2 four cavities (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=42_142&osCsid=kh91rjdre8nc1jl84fjkkbd2v2) on hand.

Shot from a Pedersoli Side Hammer Sharps.

Starline Brass Annealed and neck sized.
52 grains of Olde Eynsford FFG.
Duplexed with 5.2 grains of SR4759.
0.60 Walters Wad.
Compressed 0.145"
CCI BR 2 Primer.


237051

[longbow]

Here's a design from Dr. Richard Gunn:

237165

It says .45 Colt but I can't imagine this being seated in a .45 Colt case unless single shot with long throat, but maybe it leaves enough room for a few grs. of Bullseye?

In any case, it should be good for .45-70 or other .45 rifle caliber. I'd get a mould but I don't currently have a .45 rifle.

I copied this and scaled it to .44 (o.434") for a .44 mag. subsonic round but there again it would have to be seated long I think and only suitable for single shot. Should be perfect in 444 Marlin though... with a fast twist barrel anyway.

Looking at the crimp groove and nose length it should cycle easily through a Marlin 1895 and all that lead inside the brass would reduce volume for more efficient subsonic loading.

It is a little lighter than you are looking for but could easily be lengthened by one or two driving bands to get it to 500 grs. or so.

Longbow

[Harter66]

I've shot the NOE version of the 535 gr Postell ANJ4 or something on the order in an 1895 single shot don't close it till you shoot it or deep seating .

[Target4fun]

Anyone ever shoot this 600 grainer? Im only looking at 1000 fps. Not sure if my 1895 will stabilize this round.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42_560&products_id=5362

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