311410 Single Choice Group Buy for .300 Blackout - Duke???

[jmort]

I know
I know

But how about a simple group buy for 311410 optimized for 300 Blackout with a HP size .309 to .311" only no lube grooves and a gas check

Simple deal
You can have anything you want as long as it is a four cavity HP 311410 size .309" +/- no lube groove with gas check.

I know it was just run but they gone.
Simple single mold group buy
Proven popularity

I want two

Duke???
Bueller???

[mattw]

I shoot a 300 bo AR and have several friends with them as well. So far only about half of them will handle a bullet that is north of .305 in front of the driving band. Throw in PC and it gets even tighter, mine will not even chamber a 311413 or the 311410. I have moved to a 311414, as it allows for a coat of PC and will still fit the bore. If you own an AR that will chamber it, more power to you.

[bluejay75]

WaSalmonSlayer or Lakehouse will have to run it. We have rules amongst thieves. Cannot run the same mold twice without giving the other HONCHOs the opportunity.

This should run as a solid only buy with a target of 15 molds to cut. Mihec may have to order another cherry since you want No Lube Grooves, crimp groove and GC.

You owe me an email with an FFL while youre at it.:D

[bluejay75]

I shoot a 300 bo AR and have several friends with them as well. So far only about half of them will handle a bullet that is north of .305 in front of the driving band. Throw in PC and it gets even tighter, mine will not even chamber a 311413 or the 311410. I have moved to a 311414, as it allows for a coat of PC and will still fit the bore. If you own an AR that will chamber it, more power to you.

No crimp/ lube groove allows you to tailor the OAL to ensure you the boolit gets enough support and you can find a good spot to get a consistent crimp. Nose length is secondary to supporting the boolit and getting a good flat spot to crimp.

[jmort]

WaSalmonSlayer or Lakehouse will have to run it. We have rules amongst thieves. Cannot run the same mold twice without giving the other HONCHOs the opportunity.

This should run as a solid only buy with a target of 15 molds to cut. Mihec may have to order another cherry since you want No Lube Grooves, crimp groove and GC.

You owe me an email with an FFL while youre at it.:D

Yes I do
Tomorrow will sort out the FFL
Really want to do this as an HP
Offering one flavor should simplify things as would a .309 diameter
Please
Desperate for this
Thank You

[bluejay75]

Yes I do
Tomorrow will sort out the FFL
Really want to do this as an HP
Offering one flavor should simplify things as would a .309 diameter
Please
Desperate for this
Thank You

May not generate enough interest...but I will pass your question on.

So you want 2 x HP GC .311 311410 Molds without Lube Grooves or Crimp Groove?

[Lakehouse2012]

Bluejay- If you would like, I could take this one on, I can reach out to Miha and 45 to get the details together. Let me know if that works.


May not generate enough interest...but I will pass your question on.

So you want 2 x HP GC .311 311410 Molds without Lube Grooves or Crimp Groove?

[jmort]

I was thinking 4 Cavity
No lube grooves
Crimp groove nice but not critical
I am thinking dedicated 300 BO
But, no crimp groove works for me as well
.309” would be nice
Thank You

[Lloyd Smale]

put a crimp grove and a gas check shank on it and skip the hp thing and id be interested IF it has a nose that will work in the bo.

[bluejay75]

Bluejay- If you would like, I could take this one on, I can reach out to Miha and 45 to get the details together. Let me know if that works.

All you good sir. Just keeping the seat warm.

[Lakehouse2012]

I was thinking 4 Cavity
No lube grooves
Crimp groove nice but not critical
I am thinking dedicated 300 BO
But, no crimp groove works for me as well
.309” would be nice
Thank You

Jmort- I've been busy lately with the ingot molds... I just sent a note over to Miha, as soon as he responds, I'll get a design proposal up for everyone to look at.

[jmort]

Bless you

[Sig556r]

watching how this thread pan out...

[jmort]

put a crimp grove and a gas check shank on it and skip the hp thing and id be interested IF it has a nose that will work in the bo.

Agree
It is should be a dedicated BO design that you can PC/Hi Tek with a proper nose. Large enough to hollow-point and small enough to feed.

[jmort]

I shoot a 300 bo AR and have several friends with them as well. So far only about half of them will handle a bullet that is north of .305 in front of the driving band. Throw in PC and it gets even tighter, mine will not even chamber a 311413 or the 311410. I have moved to a 311414, as it allows for a coat of PC and will still fit the bore. If you own an AR that will chamber it, more power to you.

This is what we are facing reality-wise.
This needs to be considered

[sundog]

NOE 311-152-SP. This one feeds and chambers in a 'no leade' AR barrel. Forward of the driving band with Smoke's clear PC is .305. Today (maybe) I will try putting some on paper.

236914

[sundog]

Here ya go. 14.6/N110, NOE 311-152-SP, Gator Check, Smokes Clear PC, sized .310, Casting Machine's 300 BO cases, and CCI #41primers. Target is 25 yards to get Burris Fast Fire III on paper (orange dot is 1"), off hand. Did I forget anything?

236938

[jmort]

Lakehouse2012
This is from post # two:

"So far only about half of them will handle a bullet that is north of .305 in front of the driving band. Throw in PC and it gets even tighter, mine will not even chamber a 311413 or the 311410. I have moved to a 311414, as it allows for a coat of PC and will still fit the bore."

[jmort]

Caliber 30 Cal
Type TTSX BT
Weight 130
Diameter .308
S.D. 0.196
B.C. 0.35
Twist Rate Standard
Length 1.173
Box QTY 50
Catalog # 30364

236952

[jmort]

Caliber 30 Cal
Type TSX BT
Weight 130
Diameter .308
S.D. .196
B.C. .340
Twist Rate Standard
Length 1.086
Box QTY 50
Catalog # 30345

236954

[Lloyd Smale]

why not just copy the 125 nosler bt with the pc coating thickness factored in. Why reinvent the wheel when theres a number of jacketed bullets that run perfectly in the bo. HPs im not much interested in. cast soft enough to expand my guess is most of them will be damaged feeding from the mag into the chamber. If I want hunting bullets ill buy a box of jacketed. what I want is a cast plinking bullet that feeds a 100 percent and hits @ the same point of aim as my hunting bullets do.

[jmort]

That would be good for another thread.
I would like an all around HP bullet that could be used for plinking, hunting, sef-defense, whatever. The 300 BO subsonic group buy that MP just ran could be also be called reinventing the wheel. I would disagree. Let's keep this thread on topic.
The 125 Nosler might be a good place to start from. It seems that the nose has to be .305" or less, coated, past the driving band to work. Would like a dedicated 300 BO crimp groove, but the without the boat tail looks good. Add gas check and lose the tip.

236962

[sundog]

RCBS 7.62mm-130-SP. I just measured one coated with Smoke's Carolina blue - .305 just forward of the front drive band.

236963

[Lloyd Smale]

anyone running that bullet in a bo? searched all over the net for a half hour before I found ONE in stock. Rolled the dice. Hope it works. thanks for the help sundog
RCBS 7.62mm-130-SP. I just measured one coated with Smoke's Carolina blue - .305 just forward of the front drive band.

236963

[jmort]

Posts not helping this group buy should go elsewhere.
Please do not clog this thread up with non-productive posts.

[Loudy13]

NOE 311-152-SP. This one feeds and chambers in a 'no leade' AR barrel. Forward of the driving band with Smoke's clear PC is .305. Today (maybe) I will try putting some on paper.

236914

This is the one!! I shoot this in 3-gun and it has fed in multiple AR's its a great bullet

[Lloyd Smale]

guess the barnes posts were on topic. Your getting a free bump.
Posts not helping this group buy should go elsewhere.
Please do not clog this thread up with non-productive posts.

[jmort]

guess the barnes posts were on topic. Your getting a free bump.

In that the Barnes bullet may be considered as the basis of this design, I would disagree. One thing for sure, there is no interest in a 311410, nose is too fat.

[Cord]

Lots of 300BO shooters out there would be interested in a proper boolit just for BO.

It is too good of an idea to let it just die on the vine.....

A successful BO mold would come with HP pins and blank pins for solids,
or as an aluminum solid, so that should really be a non-issue.

I would go for two molds without hesitation....
Please keep the idea alive....
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Hello Guys
If you could pin down a specific bullet and message me dimensions I would draw up your idea and see if we could breathe some life in this buy.

Thanks
WS

[bluejay75]

WaSalmonslayer you have the Con!!!

[adcoch1]

I am pretty new to the design thing, but not new to playing with bullet shape for application. I need a 300blk mold too, and I really like the idea of no crimp grooves. Get a design that runs pc'd and id be in for a 4 cav in whatever mold material. I don't need hollowpoint.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Here is something to chew on.

Do you want crimp or no crimp and do the dimensions look close to your needs??

243587243588

[jmort]

Anything outside the case has to be smaller than .305" for PC and Hi Tek
If you read the thread it will make sense
Otherwise looks good
I would like a crimp groove
Would also like a no lube groove option
Thanks

[Wasalmonslayer]

I will make some adjustments tonight to the drawings.
So .305 in front of driving band with crimp
On the hi tek do you want gas check or plain base.
Reason I ask is if we go gas check regular lube groove for main design only hi tek option would be plain base.
If we do hi tek gas check design only other option would be hi tek plain base with no option of lube groove.

It would require two cutting cherries and that would mean two separate buys.

[jmort]

This has been the problem from the beginning of this thread
If you start at .305 and add PC or even HiTek it will not chamber
You cannot size the nose so for me the mold would be a no go
Others may be interested
Why not have a single design around .300 that would allow the application of PC or not ????

[jmort]

This is from post #2 in this thread

"I shoot a 300 bo AR and have several friends with them as well. So far only about half of them will handle a bullet that is north of .305 in front of the driving band. Throw in PC and it gets even tighter, mine will not even chamber a 311413 or the 311410. I have moved to a 311414, as it allows for a coat of PC and will still fit the bore. If you own an AR that will chamber it, more power to you."

[Wasalmonslayer]

So do we want to be .304 in front just for some fudge factor?
I know pc coating thickness can vary.

[Wasalmonslayer]

One last thing whatever we draw up we need to be able to hit the pin count so we need a design many will jump on with.
We have consolidated sizes so we pick one size.
Reason for this on a gas check bullet is if there are different diameters chosen made with the same cherry you will end up with a gas check shank that’s too loose to tight or just right.
The cherry is cut for one spec and non adjustable.

[jmort]

So do we want to be .304 in front just for some fudge factor?
I know pc coating thickness can vary.

Figure PC is .002
So the closer to .300 the better
As stated, when I started this thread, I was hoping for a dedicated
300 BO Bullet
One size around .309
Not something that is a Swiss Army Knife, "good for 30-30, .308, .30-06......"
The 230 grain MP 300 BO group buy was a good size response
Thanks

[Wasalmonslayer]

That’s perfect
So take the nose to .300 drop the overall diam to .309 take the just past crimp to .304 or.305

[jmort]

I agree that would be great
Now is time for any further input
I have none

[Wasalmonslayer]

Sounds good
Do we want smooth side gas check or lube groove gas check?

[Cord]

Glass half full, or half empty?

"So far only about half of them will handle a bullet that is north of .305 in front of the driving band."

Seems to me people are concentrating on the half that don't work- and ignoring the fact that half DO work.
That means some designs are very close already....and that it can be done.

And trying to please everyone with one design has been the obstacle so far...

So how about just going with a no lube groove boolit for starters?

A Lee FCD will put a crimp on it, so the crimp groove could be anywhere...or not there at all.
Gas check or plain base would both work...and that would be the main choice..

What remains is to design a nose that will feed and chamber in most rifles...
and I really appreciate those of you who can do that!

Just my .02, but I am ready to buy a mold just for the BO.

[jmort]

I think it really needs to have a gas check
Otherwise, agree

[Cord]

If there was no plain base option and only gas check...

I would buy it.

[Wasalmonslayer]

So no lube groove gas check or plain base option and set it at .304 and let pc build it back to fit.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Here is another run at it in a hi tek style with gas check.
To keep the weight down I had to shorten the bullet and narrow the meplate that lube goove was about 18grn worth of lead.
The balance looks really good at this point
243646

Let me know if you want it heavier or lighter and any other thoughts???

Thanks
WS

[Wasalmonslayer]

Here is a hollow point addition let me know your thoughts please??

243647

[Wasalmonslayer]

Here's plain base

243648

[bluejay75]

Here's plain base

243648

I would get one of these...6 Cavity PB brass...

[Cord]

It sure looks chubby on paper, but is just slightly shorter than the 311-410.
.740 for this one, and .800 for the 311-410.

But the meplat on this is smaller than the 311-410, 0.130 against 0.150.
HP pin at the mouth is
.115 for the 311-410
.075 for this one...

I was hoping it could have two hollow point pins, like the 311-410-
a deep hollow point pin and a shorter one.

Hard to see that with a meplat and pin this small.....

And I understand about keeping the weight down is why it's short and small...
.

[DAFzipper]

I have the M&P 311-410. In all my ar's the HP is damaged while chambering. The solid shoots well. I tried hot glue in HP. Worked well but a pia. Always thought a mould for a "tip" would be an awesome idea. Was thinking about trying to make one that would work with hot glue.

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk

[Wasalmonslayer]

I can widen the meplate and draw up any style pin you like or multiple. I just threw one together for sake of eye candy it’s not set in stone.
Are you happy with the weight or do you want lighter or heavier??

Like I said in a earlier post taking out the lube groove took it to just over 160 grains.

[Wasalmonslayer]

I want to draft the bullet you guys want so all you need to do is let me know the changes you would like.

Thank you
WS

[Cord]

Sorry, I didn't realize how much weight there was in the lube groove,
and how removing it would change the shape. I appreciate your work on this.

It now seems it might worth putting the lube groove back in just for weight reduction,
and hiding it in the neck, so to speak.

I have a 168 grain mold for .300 Savage I will dig out and measure to see how they did it....
The neck on .300 Savage is .220" long, shorter than the BO at .266"

Thanks.
.

[jmort]

The lube groove does make sense for the reasons stated by Cord
Micro-Grooves aka TL grooves are my favorite and take to PC and Hi Tek better
That is why all the Ranch Dog designs work so well for me
Still wanting a gas check and still prefer a crimp groove
But getting the crimp groove exactly right is a challange

[Wasalmonslayer]

So do you guys want to try multiple grooves or one?

Also I have experience using the lee crimp die to set the bullet where ever I need and get a good retention crimp.
This without a crimp makes sense that way it can be adjusted to fit many different chamber cuts.
Just my two cents

[Wasalmonslayer]

Here are a couple drawings with TL grooves and a hp version similar to the 311410

We can go back to a single groove it you guys would like too just let me know.

243687243688

[Cord]

Nice, Wasalmonslayer, thank you.

There is another angle to this, jmort;

How fast do you want to push it?

A 130 grain gas check HP at 2100-2200 fps would be great,
but heavier at 140+ grains would top out slower, yes?

TL grooves are fine, weight reduction for speed
is my only reason for mentioning a standard groove.
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

You guys are very welcome!

Please let me know when you are happy and I will get it going :)

[jmort]

Nice, Wasalmonslayer, thank you.

There is another angle to this, jmort;

How fast do you want to push it?

A 130 grain gas check HP at 2100-2200 fps would be great,
but heavier at 140+ grains would top out slower, yes?

TL grooves are fine, weight reduction for speed
is my only reason for mentioning a standard groove.
.

Mid - range charge if that gets acceptable accuracy
Close to 30-30 ballistics
It is really a 200 to 300 max, yard gun in my opinion and for my purposes
I think we have a winner
I agree a big Thank you to Wasalmonslayer

[Cord]

Still thinking.....
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

I just listed another design for another bullet designer if it works for you great if not we will party on with this one....

I had no part in drafting it and am not over running this one but take a look and let me know if you like it.
If not we will steam on with this design and get it running.........!

[Cord]

Thank you, Wasalmonslayer -

I appreciate the heads-up on the new entry (I like it) and your offer
to keep going on this one we are working on - I want both!

But I do know for sure that I would like to continue to consider
the last two drawings you posted for us. They looks so good!

Between work and family I have been measuring cases and boolits
and thinking about possible variations. There is something I would like to see -

Could you please make a change to the hollow point drawing in post #59
and replace the TL grooves with a single trapezoidal lube groove that is
a little bit deeper than the gas check shank?

And change the 0.045 drive band in front of the gas check to 0.050
and the 0.065 band at the base of the nose to .070 or more.

I am curious as to the weight of the boolit in that configuration.
Thank you, sir!

P.S. Of course, this is jmort's thread and the final decision is his to make.
.

[Cord]

Oops!

There is another thing also;

Since this is a 311410 "optimized for 300 Blackout"
it should have both long and short pins like the original.....

The HP in drawing #59 would be the short one at 0.280.

The long pin on my 311410 goes all the way to just past the crimp groove,
so the long pin on this one should go down to the first drive band or so....

I measure about .445 on the long pins on mine, with calipers.

I think if we get this one just right, a lot of BO shooters will want it-
and Miha will be making a lot of them.
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Ok I will make the changes you want.
It will be tomorrow more than likely before I get to it.
Long work day today....

[Ramson222]

Is the diameter dead set at .309? I would prefer sizing down from .310 or .311. In my opinion powder coating cannot be applied exactly the same every time. Thus it cannot be relied on to build up a bullet evenly every time also.

For what its worth my little bit of experience ( I'm a newb when it comes to bullet design), trying to get the 2 Lee bullets designed for the 7.63x39 to shoot in my black out when they were cast of soft alloy IIRC bhn 11-12, I must have fired at least 800rnds in testing. The 312-155gr-2R with its larger bearing surface was vastly easier to get shooting. The softer lead needed the larger bearing surface to prevent stripping. I managed to attain my goal of under 4" at 100yds with my 10" pistol with the 312-155gr-2r cast about 12bhn, the other bullet never got tighter than 9". Velocity for both was on average 1731. both were sized to .310

Given that the proposed mold is near the same dimensions as the before mentioned Lee mold I like it and am inclined to purchase it. I would be even more inclined to purchase, if it where only a little fatter on the bearing surfaces.

243646

[Wasalmonslayer]

To get it to balance a little I had to add a touch of length and make the front band a touch longer.
I will draw in the hp pins sizes to spec once we decide on the solid version.
I am not a black out guy but this bullet will fit a few others I own....
I really like the front band being a little longer it allows you to control seating depth and you can set it in place with a lee factory crimp die.
It will be a dandy plinker in most all 30's. I have looked a lot of chamber drawings and it will fit a lot of them.
I really like it a lot :)
Here is a little eye candy -
243805

[jmort]

I like it
Once we got the nose right, I was good
The larger meplat is nice
Thank You

[Wasalmonslayer]

You are very welcome!

This is very well balanced and should chamber and shoot quite well...

[badgeredd]

jmort, you should know that trying to get a consensus on a single bullet design on this forum is something akin to herding cats. Good luck my friend!

[Cord]

That looks great, thank you Wasalmonslayer!

Yes, I figured that with a longer front band,it could be adjusted in and out for
slightly different throats, the Lee FCD could crimp anywhere within that band
and still keep the gas check within the neck, no crimp groove needed.
Your longer band looks perfect to me.

Everything else is great, I'm guessing the hollow points should feed without
deforming the cavity lips, and solids should have a nice smack to the target.

The the HP pins left to be drawn are a detail, hope the big one is big,
so the only things left to decide would be :

1. whether or not to transition this design back to TL grooves,
2. what the final diameter should be.

My vote is that it's up to you two.....jmort and Wasalmonslayer.
whatever you two decide is fine with me.

.

[jmort]

jmort, you should know that trying to get a consensus on a single bullet design on this forum is something akin to herding cats. Good luck my friend!

You should look at my .458 SOCOM thread
Normally, if I don't want a HP
I just get it from Tom
Good to hear from you
I hoped you were still out there

[Wasalmonslayer]

If you give me the dimensions you would like for pins I can draw them up for you.

The design looks good to me as far as balance and weight.
As far as tumble lube or regular lube no biggie to me they both will work well.

[jmort]

Pin dimensions are above my pay grade
Most everything is
I am glad that we have people like you and others who understand these things
I would have to research it and even then, it would beer can engineering.
I have given up on getting others to accept TL/micro-grooves
I like the way they PC/Hi Tek/BLL
My 500 plus grain mold from Tom will have TL grooves, gas check and a crimp groove. But that is just for me.
We need as many bodies as possible, so I go with the flow.
So if there is a .458 SOCOM design in that thread or anywhere, that makes sense to you, could you finalize it and put it up in a discussion/buy thread???
That would be nice
Thank You

[Cord]

My experience with HP pins on Miha's molds is that the rounded pins,
like the .0280 pin in your second drawing in post #59, tend to create
a turbulence at the tip of the pin during the pour that captures an air bubble.

A lot of otherwise perfect pours end up with an irregular void
down inside the HP cavity at the bottom.
This seems less common on the sharper pins.

So I would leave the HP opening at .105 but increase the taper to a much smaller
radius point, like the 311-410 pins, at .030 deep.

Using the same opening the long pin, at 0.470 deep would be almost at
the beginning of the front band and near the balance point.

If you made the pins sharper like like that, it would once again make this like
an "optimized" 311-410, the pins on -410 look like needles. Glad you thought of this!

It would also be nice to have a very short pin almost like a cup point, it could be rounded,
and also a set of the blank pins many of his molds have....

This is looking like a great package and should be a very popular mold.
.

[Cord]

I never cared for mule snot or bevel bases and the mess they made,
lube sizing BBs and wiping off the base and cleaning the snot out of dies was annoying.

But since I started powder coating, I am buying and using both BB and TL designs
with absolutely no hesitation at all. TL grooves work great with Powder coating.

This has been designed as a powder coat boolit, TL or LG.

So I understand going with the flow to get it made, but the #69 design, TL or LG,
is good with me whatever you two decide.

I just wanted to look at the LG version, was not pushing it.
.

[jmort]

Completely agree
Your insights are based on experience and knowledge and very helpful
Yes I would love a TL groove
Ranch Dog and Lee have great TL designs
But I will take whatever is available
I feel like we are in a good place on this one

[Wasalmonslayer]

I completely agree on the hp pins the smaller the tip the better you always get cleaner fill out.

So you want to go back to TL and call it a party or stick with the one large groove?

Also do you want the weight hanging at 145 as a solid GC

[Cord]

I had a suspicion, so I went looking for a good drawing of the 311-410 (Hat tip to Longbow).

Compared it to the #59 drawing, the meplats appear to be the same at 0.150
and that was a surprise to me.

The pin on #59 is slightly narrower, 0.105 as opposed to 0.115 for the 311-410.

So the question is, with sizes so similar, are we going to have the same
tip deformation problem as was had on the original?

And checking ALL the pictures,

the Post #59 TL GC HP has a meplat of 0.150,

the Post #69 LG GC has a meplat of only 0.145!

It looks to be a problem....
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Tip deformation from being slammed into the chamber by an auto loading gun is a real problem!
I run into it with pistols and even round flat non hp designs.
The wild ride up the ramp and into the chamber can get pretty violent unless it is a really smooth approach.

[Cord]

Well, the HP pins can't get much smaller, so that means the meplat gets bigger.
I would start with the 0.115 pins of the 311-410, we know Miha can and has made them.....

Using the 311-410 for inspiration is good, but ours is not an "optimized" 300 BO boolit....yet.
I wish it could stay a lightweight, but we need to leave behind what won't work for the BO.

[Cord]

Another thing I've been thinking on.....

What Badgeredd said about "getting a consensus on a single bullet design" is true.

Whichever we list for this design, LG or TL, before the first page is full,
I bet somebody will be asking for a NLG Hi-Tek version.

If we go with the TL boolit, we could say - this is the Hi-Tek version!
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Another thing I've been thinking on.....

What Badgeredd said about "getting a consensus on a single bullet design" is true.

Whichever we list for this design, LG or TL, before the first page is full,
I bet somebody will be asking for a NLG Hi-Tek version.

If we go with the TL boolit, we could say - this is the Hi-Tek version!
.

Whole heartedly agree!

Just point me in the direction you want please!

[Wasalmonslayer]

Just an FYI it does not take a large opening to initiate expansion we could leave it a long pin and narrow the mouth to help with deformation.

Any media gets into the opening and it will start the expansion process.

[Cord]

I think the narrow pins on the original 311-410 at 0.115 are a good size.

It's just that the 311-410 is designed as a plinking / varmint boolit for bolt rifles,
not auto-loaders, so the tip deformation becomes a problem in AR use.

And we were about to do it all over again.....

So the meplat needs to be wider -
probably can't make it so wide the feed ramp won't leave a mark,
but it might can be made wide enough to resist serious damage.

Working off the image in post #69,
I would set the pins at 0.115, expand the meplat to between 0.20 and 0.21 round the edge & taper that back
to the .302 "bore riding" section that is 0.170, maintaining the total nose length at .485 if possible.

At the transition between the .302 and the .309 front band, try putting a very shallow crimp groove
that would mostly be a bevel on the band and a tiny ring at the .302. That's for jmort.

The front band would stay at 0.85, then comes the Tumble Lube Groove section from the post #59 boolit.
that section is about 0.004 longer, so shorten the rear band to take up the difference....and we might have it.

If you can please run that through your software we can see if it will balance.

Before we leave #69 in the dust, I believe it is a fine BO boolit in its own right as a solid.
.

[jmort]

Very interesting
Makes sense

[bluejay75]

243875


I had a suspicion, so I went looking for a good drawing of the 311-410 (Hat tip to Longbow).

Compared it to the #59 drawing, the meplats appear to be the same at 0.150
and that was a surprise to me.

The pin on #59 is slightly narrower, 0.105 as opposed to 0.115 for the 311-410.

So the question is, with sizes so similar, are we going to have the same
tip deformation problem as was had on the original?

And checking ALL the pictures,

the Post #59 TL GC HP has a meplat of 0.150,

the Post #69 LG GC has a meplat of only 0.145!

It looks to be a problem....
.

The buy is already going for MP molds. I will run this by AL for an NOE run.

I like this one at 145 grains.

What say you?

[Cord]

Bluejay, that picture is one of Longbow's drawings for the original 311-410 as run by Miha.

It was posted here to compare it with the drawings in posts #59 and #69 that Wasalmonslayer just made.

Post #73 on page 4 of the 2011 (8 years ago!) 311-410 discussion thread, and there are more drawings there too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?129160-311410/page4
.

P.S. Post #69 by Wasalmonslayer is the 145 grain one, it is a modified 311-410 suited for PC in the 300 BO;
he might give it up for NOE.....if Al runs it I would by one of those as a solid.
.
.

[bluejay75]

I liked the original but it seems a little light. I have not had the best of luck with boolits that light in 300 BO.

Then when the weight is right I have feeding and stacking issues. Lee 311-155 is a prime example

[Wasalmonslayer]

OK I made the mods you asked for sorry it took me so long I was out of town all day for work........
Hopefully I got them all right :)

Please Let Me Know if I messed it up....
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[Wasalmonslayer]

Bluejay,

These guys wanted an mp design hp mold for this and I was going to include the solid design so I think we have this one covered.

Thanks for the offer!
WS