sizing bullets?

[Bait O' Eggs]

Still fairly new to the muzzy's. My great plains hunter 54 caliber has been fun but I havent shot it much yet. I bought a box of 20 rounds of the 425 grain great plains bullets. They went in and out of the barrel with no issues. I bought a 450 grain 54 cal lyman mold and casted some bullets. I have only shot about a dozen and no issues until I was out coyote hunting last week and wanted to try and call a coyote in and use the muzzy. I was in the process of loading the gun when I get the bullet about 3 inches down the barrel with a lot of force and it decided it likes that spot. :(

Ram rod wont push it any farther, no way to pull it out at the time and there I sit. I got home and got a screw into the bullet and pulled it. It measured 0.545 at the widest spot

https://i.imgur.com/lnuwruy.jpg

I checked one of the store bought bullets and they measure about the same on the forward band, at the least the one I checked did.

I can see I need to size these bullets so I dont get this issue again. I am pretty sure the stuck bullet was a bit larger than 0.545 before I tried to stuff it down the barrel. I guess I slugged my muzzleloader to a 0.545 at the outside of the bullets widest spot, what size sizer would you buy to make sure I dont get a bit bigger bullet stuck again??

I dont or havent been wrapping the bullet in anything, I have been dumping powder down the hole and then pushing the bullet to the top of the powder. Open to suggestions, should I be sizing the bullet down and wrapping them in something, or just get do what I have been doing, but get the right sized bullet to start with before I start poking down the barrel? [smilie=1:

[rfd]

why not just load patched .530 balls, the way it was very effectively done and used back in the day?

[Bait O' Eggs]

Due to rifling twist in the barrel????

[charlie b]

So, yes, the GP bullets should slip into the bore until the forward band, then it 'engraves' with the rifling.

Your cast bullets should do the same IIRC. If not then it would be wise to size them down a bit. As you found out, trying to engrave rifling over the whole bullet takes quite a bit of force.

In my Lyman Great Plains hunter in .50cal I size the bullets to .501. The bore is .502. I also use a card wad and felt wad above the powder to provide initial seal and to protect the base of the bullet. The bullet is a slip fit, even in a fouled bore and it shoots well with 100gn of powder. I rarely use this method since I started using paper patch.

PS it is possible to find a decent patched round ball load. The faster twist usually means you want a slower muzzle velocity so start with lower powder loads, like 40gn. Also, with the shallow groove rifling the fit of patch and ball is even more critical so you might need to try a few if you go that way.

[idahoron]

Still fairly new to the muzzy's. My great plains hunter 54 caliber has been fun but I havent shot it much yet. I bought a box of 20 rounds of the 425 grain great plains bullets. They went in and out of the barrel with no issues. I bought a 450 grain 54 cal lyman mold and casted some bullets. I have only shot about a dozen and no issues until I was out coyote hunting last week and wanted to try and call a coyote in and use the muzzy. I was in the process of loading the gun when I get the bullet about 3 inches down the barrel with a lot of force and it decided it likes that spot. :(

Ram rod wont push it any farther, no way to pull it out at the time and there I sit. I got home and got a screw into the bullet and pulled it. It measured 0.545 at the widest spot

https://i.imgur.com/lnuwruy.jpg

I checked one of the store bought bullets and they measure about the same on the forward band, at the least the one I checked did.

I can see I need to size these bullets so I dont get this issue again. I am pretty sure the stuck bullet was a bit larger than 0.545 before I tried to stuff it down the barrel. I guess I slugged my muzzleloader to a 0.545 at the outside of the bullets widest spot, what size sizer would you buy to make sure I dont get a bit bigger bullet stuck again??

I dont or havent been wrapping the bullet in anything, I have been dumping powder down the hole and then pushing the bullet to the top of the powder. Open to suggestions, should I be sizing the bullet down and wrapping them in something, or just get do what I have been doing, but get the right sized bullet to start with before I start poking down the barrel? [smilie=1:

I will tackle the reason for it sticking as maybe at least two.
#1 One are you cleaning between shots
#2 how hard is the lead?

Alloy will not shrink when it cools like pure will. In my opinion your problem should be fixed with pure lead, and cleaning.

[idahoron]

The crack in the lead makes me think the bullet is alloy.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I will tackle the reason for it sticking as maybe at least two.
#1 One are you cleaning between shots
#2 how hard is the lead?

Alloy will not shrink when it cools like pure will. In my opinion your problem should be fixed with pure lead, and cleaning.


I had shot the gun the day before my stuck bullet situation, and cleaned the gun right after shooting. This was the first bullet down the hole after cleaning, though I dont usually clean between shots.

When I started casting bullets I was under the impression I wanted hard lead. I have cast thousands of the 9mm and 223 bullets with no issues, but have only cast a few muzzy bullets. I had a sample taken on the 400lbs of lead I bought for casting, see below.

https://i.imgur.com/q3lq7Fc.png

Would I do better using a soft lead for the muzzy?

I see what looks like a crack in the picture, it is not a crack.

[dondiego]

That alloy is hard! Pure lead will work better for your ML bullets.

[Beeks]

Pure lead is the way to go for shoving boolits down a barrel...

[Beeks]

From Hornady's website..

"Cold forming from pure lead..."

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/great-plains#!/

[725]

yep. It's a bullet problem. You need pure lead or very close to it.

[charlie b]

I should add that sizing down to bore size will not work with hard lead. Needs to be really soft so the force of the powder charge will upset the bullet into the grooves.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks, it makes sense, I will recast my bullets with soft lead I have lots of that, wasnt aware I needed something different for the muzzy.

It was about 6 degrees when I got the bullet stuck trying to load it. I dont know how much a barrel shrinks in cold weather over a piece of lead shrinking due to being cold, but I cant imagine it helped the situation.

[idahoron]

Lead hardness is a touchy thing for Muzzleloaders. You can use a little alloy in the lead and it will help, BUT. That is a big but, you have to keep it on the soft side. On my 50 cal bullets I target 7 BHN. 5 BHN is considered pure. In my 45 I am using 8 to 8.5 BHN. I am paper Patching these bullets and sizing them. I think a guy could use up to 20-1 from what I have heard. But my own personal knowledge is if you are in the 5 to 7 range you will do much better.
On another note. You should think about cleaning between shots. It will help tighten up your groups.

[Buckshot]

.............A thing I do when shooting BP in my muzzle loaders is after dropping the powder charge for the next shot is to thumb the slug into the muzzle then lay a damp patch over it and then ram the slug home (These are all Minie' or slugs as I don't use RB's). The dirty patch comes out with the ramrod. I can just about shoot to my heart's content. However powder fouling WILL build in the barrel behind the slug, so depending upon how many rounds you get off, you WILL eventually have to "Clean to the Breech Face".

...............Buckshot

[FLINTNFIRE]

Remember molds are cut for specific alloys , hard does not shrink down so you have a oversize and hard projectile to push through rifling and fouling .