Anyone ever reload the Winchester Service Grade Ammo - SG45W Brass

[Rustynails]

I'm new to reloading 45 acp., (and reloading in general). I have some old 45 acp. brass from India, Brazil, South Korea and the USA. I also bought some range "once fired" brass, PMC, RP, Federal, and Winchester. I had some problems reloading this, (see post in the "What did you do in the reloading room today"), I saw this Winchester Service Ammo SG45W for sale for $233/1000 with free shipping and thought it would make for a good source of reloading brass. (I searched this forum and did not see anything on it.) This way I don't have some Large primers and some small primers to worry about. I just want to make sure that this brass is good quality for reloading. Does it have large primers or small? What is the head stamp? Can it be reloaded over and over or is it cheap brass that's not worth it. I am using an RCBS 45-230 bullet mold with wheel weights as my lead source. I'm getting an average 232.4 grain bullet and have 600 waiting patiently to be loaded. I can shoot the Winchester Service ammo and have a constant source of brass, (for a while). Does this sound like a good plan, or should I continue with the range brass, buy new brass, or try another "cheap" ammo brand.

[toallmy]

I load all 45acp brass as long as it is ( brass ) not aluminum . Take a little time and separate the different head stamps before you start loading so you can take a good look at them . Also a good idea to start out loading your homemade ammo a few at a time for testing .

[Wayne Smith]

Don't know that brass but USG stuff does have to meet some minimal criteria. I use range pick up simply because its free and I clean all brass after use and separate by headstamp when sorting prior to loading. I have in excess of 1000 rounds and basically stopped picking it up.

[Rustynails]

Thanks for the replies. I was having trouble with the range brass passing the head space gauge. I was getting a "go" when I tried range brass before flairing, but then it would fail after. I only have a minimum flair for my cast bullets. Does this mean that I'm doing something wrong? I even went back and resized the ones that failed several times and they pass the go, no go test, but latter then fail? Any ideas?

[Ed_Shot]

I too use nothing but free 45 ACP range brass. There is no problem with the small primer brass; it will shoot just as well as LP brass. When you inspect your brass segregate it by LP and SP. I have read here, and I believe it, that 45 ACP brass pretty much lasts forever. Unless the case mouth is cracked or you find obvious loose primer pockets it is fine in my book. Great advice above about only loading a few rounds at a time to start out.

To address your loading issues: What brand of dies are you using? Will your empty cases plunk into your weapons chamber after you size them? What is the diameter of the round at the case mouth after you crimp the boolit?

Missed your last post. Once you expand the case mouth the case should not be able to plund into your chamber.

[toallmy]

I am not getting a clear understanding of the problem you are having , could you start at the beginning of your process . Type of dies , press single stage or progressive ?
I think the die set-up will fix your issues .

[Rustynails]

I am not getting a clear understanding of the problem you are having , could you start at the beginning of your process . Type of dies , press single stage or progressive ?
I think the die set-up will fix your issues .


Thanks. I am using hand me down Lee 90513 45 acp 45 Auto Rim carbide 3 set dies. I think I go through the normal steps when using range brass, but maybe I'm missing something. Steps: 1) Clean brass in Lyman Turbo tumbler. 2) Resize/de-prime all brass. 3) I trimmed the brass to make sure it was all the same length with Lee trim guide and did a head space test 4) I cleaned primer pockets, inside and outside deburring. 5) Flair the case mouth (expander die) just enough for me to set a RCBS 45-250 bullet on it. 6) Test with head space gauge again. and that is when I would get some fail that didn't fail in the initial head space test. 7) Resized failed head space brass... some would work, others would not in the head space gauge. 8) Primed cases. 9) I haven't loaded any to test because I had eye surgery and am waiting for the doctor to clear me...this Friday I hope.

I made up a dummy cartridge and did do the plunk test in an Springfield XD. I got the slide stuck twice and all other problems. Solved that and found a OAL of 1.238 and using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. David2011 suggested an outside case mouth of about .469 to .471
I measured my dummy cartridge and it is within this range.

I just don't understand why some cases are passing the head space test, but after using the expander die they fail.?

[tja6435]

$233/1000 used 45 cases sounds way steep. Starline has it brand new for cheaper pretty sure.

[Rustynails]

$233/1000 used 45 cases sounds way steep. Starline has it brand new for cheaper pretty sure.

No, That is for new fully loaded 45 acp ammo. I think it is more like $245.00... I think I look at an older backorder listing. Sorry.

[Ed_Shot]

When you flare the case mouth you need to open it enough so that you do not shave lead from the boolit when you seat it. The base of the boolit should sit inside the flared case mouth perhaps 1/16". When you flare the case mouth enough to seat the boolit the case will no longer fit into the chamber....this is normal. When you crimp you bring the case mouth back to the correct dimension for the chamber. As you stated .469~471 at the case mouth should do the trick.

[Rich/WIS]

Are you taper crimping as a final step. I seat and crimp as a separate operation and I am not familiar with your die set but it doesn't sound like you are taper crimping. You may not be removing all of the flare or may be seating the bullet too far out of the case. Check the rounds in you pistol by removing the barrel and dropping them in the chamber. If a 1911 type they should go in with the base flush with the end of the barrel hood. Gauges are fine but the gun is the final judge. The case headspaces on the mouth and if the bullet is not seated deeply enough it hits the start of the rifling. Also what are you sizing the bullets to, if too large that can also play hell with both gauges and minimum chambers.

[reddog81]

5) Flair the case mouth (expander die) just enough for me to set a RCBS 45-250 bullet on it. 6) Test with head space gauge again. and that is when I would get some fail that didn't fail in the initial head space test. 7) Resized failed head space brass... some would work, others would not in the head space gauge. 8) Primed cases. 9) I haven't loaded any to test because I had eye surgery and am waiting for the doctor to clear me...this Friday I hope.

I just don't understand why some cases are passing the head space test, but after using the expander die they fail.?

Why are you testing the head space after flairing? You remove the flair with the seater die or the taper crimp die. Don't test for head space until the ammo is finished. Additionally most people never test for head space. Just do the plunk test and make sure the rounds drop in and out of the barrel without issue. 45 ACP will never get too long and if it's too short it'll head space of the extractor.

Steps 1, 3, 4 are also unnecessary for 45 ACP.

[Rustynails]

Okay, I didn't know about flaring that much. I'll try it. I'm not sure about the type of crimp die I have. It doesn't say if it is tapper or rolled type of crimp, just "Lee Factory Crimp Die".? Will I have to do the drop test in each of my 45's. S &W Shield, XD, and FNX Tactical, Hi-point Carbine, and Thompson? Will I use the the smallest OAL for all or do I have to load different for each?

[max it]

"Additionally most people never test for head space."
10 years of steel matches and I have never headspaced. only plunk test maybe.

[Rustynails]

reddog81, Thanks. You make it sound so simple, now I feel dumber than I know I am.:shock: I guess its just a learning process. Glad I'm here for all the help.

[toallmy]

After full length resizing , are you flaring the case with the powder through die ? Seat boolits and remove flair . Seating boolits and remove flair is the step creating your trouble I believe . It can be a bit tricky getting the flare removed just enough to reliable plunk in your chamber - and your over all length just right to feed through the firearms - as well as not jam in the throat when the round goes in the chamber .
It seems complex but it's not after you play with a few dummy rounds to work out the over all length of your cast boolits , then you get the crimp adjusted to remove the flair . The 45acp is a pretty good cartridge to start working with . But just start on one handgun at first , in the end you will possibly find the same loads will work in all your 45s but just work on them one at a time . Your going to have a great time shooting cast in your 45s just go slow working out the details it's well worth it .

[toallmy]

In post # 10 the recommended .468-.471 at the case mouth of a loaded round will fix the plunk test , this + over all length = well feeding ammunition .

[mdi]

From the descriptions I read about it the "Service Grade" is good ammo and reloadable. The name probably just signifies regular "every day shooting" ammo rather than "Match Grade". If I were in your situation, I'd buy some for shooting and a supply of brass. I've never had any specific problems with Winchester brass...
https://www.google.com/search?q=winchester+service+grade-+SG45W+Brass&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS776US776&oq=winchester+service+grade-+SG45W+Brass&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.16714j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Rustynails]

After full length resizing , are you flaring the case with the powder through die ? Seat boolits and remove flair . Seating boolits and remove flair is the step creating your trouble I believe . It can be a bit tricky getting the flare removed just enough to reliable plunk in your chamber - and your over all length just right to feed through the firearms - as well as not jam in the throat when the round goes in the chamber .
It seems complex but it's not after you play with a few dummy rounds to work out the over all length of your cast boolits , then you get the crimp adjusted to remove the flair . The 45acp is a pretty good cartridge to start working with . But just start on one handgun at first , in the end you will possibly find the same loads will work in all your 45s but just work on them one at a time . Your going to have a great time shooting cast in your 45s just go slow working out the details it's well worth it .

Yes, I am using a powder through die, and I believe this was one of the problems. I used a Lee Factory Crimp die and check the case mouth edge and it falls between . .469 and .471 diameter. I will load some this weekend if allowed by the eye doctor and test them and post the results. Thanks.

[Rustynails]

FYI: The RCBS Bullet that is giving me some headache with seating.236007

Here is one of my failed dummy loads using a .452 cast bullet. The other picture is the "same" bullet sized to .451 which is what my XD slugged out at.

236008

[Rustynails]

Thanks for all who helped. Sorry I took so long to respond. It is Valentines Day and I was doing what I had to do today: Attend a Pesticide Re-certification class from Penn State. It seemed appropriate to attend such an event for today.:D

[Rustynails]

Finally solved my reloading/sizing problem with the Springfield XD 45. After all the help here and elsewhere I have found that my head space problem was that some range brass had bulging by the head. Sizing it wouldn't help because the die would not reach that area. My gun would never reach full battery because of this problem. Also I realized that the seating die may have been starting a crimp on the bullet when I was seating it. I backed it off and after seating, used a Lee Factory crimp die to reach a case mouth crimp of .468-.469.
With those diameters plus the OAL of 1.227 the pistol worked perfect.

I ended up with the following load for my XD 45:

RCBS 45-230 RN # 734 Mold using Wheel weights which produced a 234 grain bullet. (about 14 bhn)
Sized to .451 after slugging my XD. I may try .452, but right now I'm not getting any leading.
Lubed with Emmerts.
CCI Large Pistol Primers
4.3 grains of Bullseye powder
OAL: 1.227
Crimp using Lee Factory Crimp die to .468 to .469, anything over seemed to create a bullet that would not twist easy in the plunk test.
Assorted Head Stamp 45 acp range brass.

I did save the brass with the bulge and ordered a Lee bulge buster to see if I can save them.

It was a longer process than I expected, (developing my first load ever), but it was worth it in the end. The target was at 21 feet and the average chronograph FPS was: 758.8 (4.4; 4.5;4.3 grains of Bullseye tested 5 shots each, one flyer on the 4.3 grain target not pictured)

236427

[tja6435]

No, That is for new fully loaded 45 acp ammo. I think it is more like $245.00... I think I look at an older backorder listing. Sorry.

Not too bad of a deal then

[Der Gebirgsjager]

You've been given lots of good advice, so I'll just make a few generalized observations without going through all of the details:

I've purchased several lots of 1,000 .45 ACP empties for right around $100 shipped.

I've been shooting for many years with .45 ACP as a favorite, and have never trimmed the cases. They just don't seem to grow past functionality.

First I de-prime, clean, then resize. When I flare them it is enough that I can insert the base of the bullet with my fingers and it will stand upright.

The Lee Factory Crimp Die is the best thing since sliced bread. If your loaded round will enter (you can expect resistance upon entry as the case is still flared somewhat), crimp and then exit through the built-in carbide ring, the round has to fit in a standard chamber. If it won't, then something almost has to be wrong with the chamber.

For me, .452" works in all of my ACPs (about a dozen) and has never been a problem.

Looking at your photo, your loaded round looks like it has a ridge around the location of the base of the bullet. It may well be that the case was not flared enough, but it probably should have been ironed out enough to work by the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It may have been that the brand of brass contributed to the problem, as I used to get similar results using American Brand brass, and would get a bad result on perhaps one out of ten cases, but that was before the LFCD. I no longer use American Brand, don't know if they're still around, don't see much of it anymore. It could very well be that some of the cheaper brands of brass are inferior and should be avoided, but I've had no problems with most of it. CCI Blazer could be called an inexpensive brand, but their brass reloads just fine.

The photo of the bullet itself shows no lube? Cast bullets must be lubed and sized before loading. Lee says you can shoot theirs straight from the mold, and sometimes you can, but not always in all chambers. So I size them also. Yours, I see, is an RCBS, but the necessity to lube and size remains. Lee's Tumble Lube works on all cast bullets, and would work on your RCBS bullet, but it's kind of ugly. I've used it, it works well, but I prefer lube in the groove.

All in all, the .45 ACP is one of the easiest cartridges to load for. Just de-prime them, clean them, flare them enough for the bullet's base to enter, size and lube the bullets, use the LFCD and you should meet with success.

[samari46]

i load the 45acp for two 45's. One a Springfield armory (new one not the old) and the other is a 1943 Ithaca 1911A1. I use regular store bought hard cast 230 gr round nosed bullets. 5grs WST,wlp primer and just about any 45 case I have on hand. Regardless of brand of case both 34's have never failed to function. Only brass I do not reload is A-merc and MFS which I believe is made in Hungary. I did the plunk test with both barrels and adjusted the over all length with dummy loaded cases no powder or primer. Made up a few dummies with the correct the dies (Dillon) and so far haven't had to readjust the dies. Even though a lot of folks say that the Sellier & Bellot Czech cases are no good I've found that as long as I make a few passes with a case neck chamfering tool on the primer pockets they seat normally and have had no problems with the chamfered primer pockets. Frank

[scattershot]

FYI: The RCBS Bullet that is giving me some headache with seating.236007

Here is one of my failed dummy loads using a .452 cast bullet. The other picture is the "same" bullet sized to .451 which is what my XD slugged out at.

236008

According to your description, you are loading 250 grain bullets,(post #7) and that may be your problem. Standard bullet weight for 45 ACP is 230 grains, and 250 is for 45 Colt. The ogive of your bullet (the curve of the nose) may be keeping your loads from chambering. Try a different bullet and see if that doesn’t solve your problem.

EDIT: I see you have fixed your problem. Congrats. Sounds like you are doing everythig right, enjoy yourself, and be safe. Good shooting!

[SvenLindquist]

Buy a Lee FOUR die set for any handgun cartridge you can and you will have no problems. (I load 38 spec, 357 mag, 10mm, 44 spec, 44 mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt and 460 S&W)

[Rustynails]

According to your description, you are loading 250 grain bullets,(post #7) and that may be your problem. Standard bullet weight for 45 ACP is 230 grains, and 250 is for 45 Colt. The ogive of your bullet (the curve of the nose) may be keeping your loads from chambering. Try a different bullet and see if that doesn’t solve your problem.

EDIT: I see you have fixed your problem. Congrats. Sounds like you are doing everythig right, enjoy yourself, and be safe. Good shooting!

Darn! You are good. I missed that error several times reading over it. Maybe that's why I had eye surgery. It was supposed to be 45-230 #374 bullet mold. Thanks for the sharp eyes.

[45-70 Chevroner]

According to your description, you are loading 250 grain bullets,(post #7) and that may be your problem. Standard bullet weight for 45 ACP is 230 grains, and 250 is for 45 Colt. The ogive of your bullet (the curve of the nose) may be keeping your loads from chambering. Try a different bullet and see if that doesn’t solve your problem.

EDIT: I see you have fixed your problem. Congrats. Sounds like you are doing everythig right, enjoy yourself, and be safe. Good shooting!

That was my answer also, I think the boolit is to long.

[David2011]

I second the opinions regarding case prep. I always tumble brass before loading so I stay cleaner and the dies aren’t exposed to grit. No need to trim .45 ACP ever. I’ve never seen one that even met the SAAMI maximum length. Taper crimps don’t require the brass to all be the same length like roll crimps. No need to prep primer pockets or flash holes. The boolits you’re using are more blunt than 1911 ball ammo bullets so only a minimum amount of the front band should be exposed beyond the case mouth.

At the low pressures of your loads your brass will have essentially an unlimited life. I shoot 200 grain SWCs at 650 FPS. Some of the head stamps are unreadable from the slide pounding on them so many times. I don’t shoot full power loads in .45 ACP so I’ve never seen a case split.

You mentioned a headspace gauge many times. A headspace gauge goes inside the chamber to test the chamber dimensions. Are you dropping the cartridges into the gauge? If so that would be a case gauge.