what happens when....?

[lazarus09]

okay so ive been reading and reading and came up with some questions.

what happens when a soft bullet is pushed faster than is optimal?
im talking about HP's. they should be softer correct? to allow for expansion, but how fast can they get?

is 30-1 mixture too soft for .45 acp? the molds i have are lee six cavity 230 gr round nose and lyman devastator.

main question here, can softer bullets be used almost exclusively?

or is harder always better?

sorry, i am sort of new to casting, i have successfully loaded the devastator in .45 with no leading but am now wondering about these things.

help appreciated.

[DLCTEX]

I think the 45 ACP can handle pure lead boolits. I say I think because I have not tried pure lead, but others have reported using it with good results. I like a harder alloy due to the shallow rifling and the possibility of stripping, but probably would not happen at the relatively low velocities. I use WW with 50% pure or stick on WW for most of my casting for 45 and 38. ACWW boolits with a good HP cavity will expand in the 45 ACP in my experience. DALE

[lazarus09]

accuracy is pretty good with the devastator bullet but not target grade by any means.

okay next question. with the lee bullets, they say to tumble lube them.
is this a must or can they be lubed like other kinds of bullets?

[calsite]

Well, Good Post by the way. I've been using 50:50 WW & Soft for about the last 2 years, with very little problem with leading, I've also experimented with water quenching my .45 boolits to see if there was a difference (not much) I think as long as you've got a good lube, I like Felix or Speed Green, and aren't pushing your boolits over 800 fps you outta be fine. These boolits outta expand fairly well also being they aren't so hard. If you want a bit harder boolit water quench them right out of the mould I think that's gonna get them to 11+ on the Brinnel Scale.

[Meatco1]

I've been casting .41, and .44 mag loads at BHN of 9.6, or equivalent 24/1. Taken them them to 1300 fps, with no leading what so ever. They are sized at .431 to match my throats & chamber, and lubed with BAC.

For me, soft works fine, as long as they are lubed & sized correctly.

Richard

[MtGun44]

One of the additional issues with the .45 ACP in a semi-auto is the
damage to the nose that may occur during feeding if the alloy is very
soft. This is obviously not an issue in a revolver. With a HP it would
seem to be more of an issue.

Bill

[lazarus09]

so why do people want harder bullets?
other than for shallow rifling, what is the purpose?

softer bullets should always obturate right?

i dont understand this casting thing but am determined to figure it out

[Buckshot]

...............lazarus09, a big welcome to the board. Some good questions here, and determination will win out, as you will learn via mistakes also. Just keep records.

"so why do people want harder bullets?"

People don't always want harder boolits. In my K38 S&W for target loads I use the old fav, 2.7grs of Bullseye and a 148gr WC cast of pure lead. I also use pure lead for slugs in a couple pistols chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge. Muzzle loaders generally also use pure lead. However, pressures are comparatively low.

"other than for shallow rifling, what is the purpose?"

A harder alloy will penetrate deeper. It will 'Hold' the lands better with higher pressure loads. However you can only harden lead to a certain point either by alloying or heat treating. The whole reason for jacketed bullets was the desire and eventual ability to drive bullets well beyond the ability of the cast lead boolit to handle.

"softer bullets should always obturate right?"

They will if the pressure is sufficient, and applied quickly enough. Black powder burns almost as fast in a loose pile lying on the ground, as it does contained within a gun barrel. It does not require pressure to burn energeticly, and is classified as an (low) explosive. Smokless powder on the other hand is a progressively burning substance that is considered a propellant, and a flammable solid for shipping purposes.

If there isn't sufficient pressure, a smokless charge may not ignite, or if it does it may burn incompletely, and it can even go out. As a consequence smokless powder 'may' obturate or cause a lead slug to upset but not every smokless powder will, only the faster burning powders will and then only if the charge is sufficient to generate the pressure required. In the 38 Special target load of 2.7grs of Bullseye, which is one of the fastest smokless powders, the base of a 148gr wadcutter hasn't yet cleared the casemouth yet the charge has reached it's pressure peak.

In a magnum cartridge like the 44 Magnum, full effort loads use slow fuels (for pistols). These powders are heavily detered and require high pressure to be efficient, but they build this pressure slowly, compared to say, Bullseye. In the magnum, if you do not have a good grip on the slug with the case mouth, and a good crimp you may only get a blooper. A pop, with the slug hitting the ground 10 ft in front of you because the slug started moving too quick, so the powder couldn't get going. The point being that a soft lead slug in such a load might not upset. And even if it did, a magnum load burning efficiently would overcome a soft boolit's ability to hold the lands.

"i dont understand this casting thing but am determined to figure it out

Casting is part science, part art, and part voo-doo. There are some hard and fast rules that affect every caster the same. Then there are guidlines. Guidelines are only good to get a person started in the right direction, because they "Generally" work. That's the Art part. Then there is the voo-doo part, and only you can figure that out for what you're doing or trying to accomplish.

Some people just never figure it out. Mainly it's because they aren't interested enough for several reasons. It's too hard or it takes too much time are probbaly the two most common excuses. Most any bozo can stick a jacketed slug over a book load in a case and shoot it with at least passable results. I always find it interesting while at the range (and this is VERY common) when a person sitting at the bench shooting something like a 7mm mag with a scope hits the 200 meter gong. It's like 11" wide and 14" long but at the clang they'll sit up and look around to see how many are looking at them in admiration for accomplishing such an astounding feat :-)

Many, many members here compete in military rifle, or high power matches at their ranges, and shoot cast lead in direct competition to those shooting jacketed ammo. And they ALL do well. The entire scope of the casting and shooting process is a fascinating aspect of the shooting sport. A lot of people shoot. A lot of them reload. But a comparatively small number cast their own.

Welcome to the illuminati :cbpour: :bigsmyl2:

................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Buckshot was too polite, (he can't help it), to let the other cat outta the bag. "HARD" is a sales gimmick used by commercial casters. Which would you be inclined to buy- "NEW! IMPROVED!!! EXTRA HARD CAST BULLETS!!!!!!" or " Cast boolits made from soft wheel weight alloy"? It's kind of like the choice between a high speed imported sports cars and a pick up. The sports car is for specialized uses, the pick up will do almost everything the sports car will and plow snow to boot.

The hard alloy is expensive and a specialized product that should be saved for those times you really need it- high speed experiments, those 1 in a million guns that just demand it, when you need penetration with little deformation. I wish I could get cheap linotype or babbitt but I can't, just like most people. So we learn to use WW and find that fit is at least as important as alloy hardness and that we can toughen a boolit to work up to at least 1800-2000 fps with a gas check and proper fit.

Like Buck says, you have to play with this a bit and learn. It's way too much trouble for most people.

[runfiverun]

your land heights, groove depths, shape of them and your throat will dictate what you can get away with.
taller lands=good.. right,...........maybe, depends on what you are trying to do.