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View Full Version : .45 Colt shooting all over.



WildmanJack
10-12-2008, 11:16 AM
Gentlemen,
I took my new Uberti 1973 in .45 colt to the range yesterday. At 100 yds. it was all over the place.I presume it was the load. 230 gr. rnfp cast from ww over 4.5 Gr. of Clays. So I'm gonna switch to 700-x and see if the increase in velocity helps any. If any of you have any suggestions then I would be more than happy.
Again as always, thanks for any help,
Jack

felix
10-12-2008, 11:47 AM
About 6.0 grains 700X. ... felix

WildmanJack
10-12-2008, 11:50 AM
Thanks Felix. I'll give it a try. I think that's max load for 700-x in 45 colt..
Jack

missionary5155
10-12-2008, 12:18 PM
Good morning With all revolvers your best bet is to FIRST slug the barrel and the cylinders. If the boolit is to small for the cylinders and or the barrel the bolit is gonna get a rough ride to the target. Hopefulley the cylinders are wider than the barrel.

WildmanJack
10-12-2008, 12:20 PM
Missionary,
It's a long gun, not a revolver. I specifically bought one with a looong barrel so I could shoot out to 100 yds accurately and was ver disapointed when I saw the results. But again I really think it was more the load than anything else..
Jack

missionary5155
10-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Roger that ! I was wondering why ya was wanting to be shooting a model "73" out to a 100 yards. WEll then if the boolit fills the bore it is just a matter of getting it spinning fast enough to stabilize.

WildmanJack
10-12-2008, 01:52 PM
Well, to be perfectly honest I was hoping to use it for side matches at Cowboy shoots. The range here only goes out 100 yds for their side matches. And untill I scrounge up enough money for a sharps I thought I'd stay local and shoot the 100 yard matches with the 73. Am I asking too much from the '73 to be accurate at 100 yds??
Jack

missionary5155
10-12-2008, 04:31 PM
I would think a 73 replica should shoot out to a 100 yards.. the origonals do. Unless you have a fauty barrel. Never give up as you have just begun. There are many powders to try... My outright favorite is Unique.. then there are bullet styles and diameters.
Most important in all this is the bullet diameter. My rifles shoot BEST with a FAT boolit. If my CHAMBER area slugs .453 then I will start with a .454 minimum and would not hessitate to load a .455 SOFT mix boolit. My 44-40 down here has a .433 chamber and I feed it .434 and .435 boolits. I would happily take it whitetail hunting out to 100 yards.. but there are none here. So check that chamber area for sure. With that you can begin working over the powders..

WildmanJack
10-12-2008, 05:46 PM
I guess that I should first, slug the barrel. I spoke to my gunsmith and he said, don't worry about that, I'm sure it's .452. But be that as it may, tomorrow I slug my barrell.. We'll see what happens then..
Jack

junkbug
10-13-2008, 03:23 PM
With long barrels, and relatively short bullets, lubrication is often a problem. If your bullet doesn't have generous lube grooves, that may be part of the problem. Bevel base bullets also give trouble in these type of rifles.

I never have owned a Win 73 clone, but did have similar problems with a Marlin 94 in 44 mag.

Good luck.

sean

runfiverun
10-13-2008, 06:46 PM
is that a commercial cast 225 rnfp??
those do have a pretty small lube groove. but i have shot many of them with the plastic lube over 5.0 of clays.

Jon K
10-13-2008, 07:11 PM
I guess that I should first, slug the barrel. I spoke to my gunsmith and he said, don't worry about that, I'm sure it's .452. But be that as it may, tomorrow I slug my barrell.. We'll see what happens then..
Jack

Jack,

Slug it, and trust only what you see. I had a Uberti '73, and it slugged .4535 at the chamber end, .452 muzzle end.

Shooting all over, my guess is the boolit is too small for the groove diameter to stabilize, and it starts leading, before you know it is shooting about a 4 foot group @100 yds. I had that happen, I took a buddy's Civil War Cimarron imported Uberti 45lc to the range, did the same thing, cleaned out the lead, took it home slugged it .454, loaded some .454/10bhn boolits.........end of problem, shoots great.

Jon

WildmanJack
10-13-2008, 07:13 PM
Runfive, no it's a Magma 230 gr I cast with wws. Junkbug, it is a beveled base. I figured it would be easier to set in the case with a beveled base. I'll have to check the depth of the lube groove.
Jack

WildmanJack
10-13-2008, 07:16 PM
JohnK,
Thanks a lot for the info. I'm going to try to slug the barrel tomorrow. Had an unexpected death in the family yesterday morning and it's been a bit crazy around here. So If I have the time I will sure try. I really want this gun to shoot good groups at 100 yds. I know that I can do it, I just want the gun to do it as well..
Jack

Jon K
10-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Jack,

It'll shoot accurate to 100 yds no problem, lots of loads will do it, the 16 twist in that gun is not real hard to find a good load. just size it to fit the barrel.

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

WildmanJack
10-13-2008, 07:40 PM
Thanks Jon, sure appreciate the info.
Jack

Doug Bowser
10-15-2008, 11:21 PM
I use a 200 gr semi-wadcutter with 6 grains of Bullseye. Shoots great.

DUKE NUKEM
10-16-2008, 12:09 AM
Try the 255 grain Lee. I can send some if need be.

NickSS
10-16-2008, 06:53 AM
I have shot several long guns in 45 colt out to 100 and even 200 yards. I found that the secret was to use a heavy bullet and send it down range at at least 1000 feet per second. My favorit cowboy gun is a 92 Winchester clone from Rossi. It is a 20 inch carbine and I have a tang sight on it that will adjust out to 200 yards with my favorit load for it which is a lyman 250 gr RNFP slug (i foget the mold number but it is the original colt bullet with two lube grooves) over 8 gr of Unique. It gives me about 850 fps in my 5 1/2" colt clone and a little over 1000 fps in my rifle. Oh I size my boolits to .454".

cajun shooter
10-16-2008, 09:56 AM
Hey WMJ, I shoot the RCBS 230 cm and with my mix; sized and lubed it comes in at 240. Loaded behind your same load of 4.5 grains of Clays it shoots the x ring out at 25. It opens a little at 50 but it's still very accurate. Hope everything works out for you and if I can be of help well you know us brothers in blue stick together. Take Care

WildmanJack
10-18-2008, 08:32 AM
I was a bit scared of shooting anything over 800 - 900 fps out of this Uberti. I was told that the linkage design was not very strong and I shouldn't load to heavy. I'd love to shoot a 300+ gr boolit out of it but figured the powder charge would tear up the action, or possibly me!! So tell me, should I keep the loads low? Or will the Uberti take a 1000fps round without damage?
Jack

Jon K
10-18-2008, 09:38 AM
Jack,

The metals in the Uberti are a lot stronger than the old Original Winchester '73. I had a Uberti '73, and shot 325 gr Lyman boolit @1300+fps with no adverse effect.
*Please note I only shot about 500 rounds with this combination, so I don't know what the long term effect would be. It was a good gun, but I sold it and several others to buy a Shiloh Sharps.

Jon

WildmanJack
10-18-2008, 09:44 AM
Jon,
Man, thanks for the info. Now I won't worry quite as much when I'm trying to pick a really accurate load for the gun. I'm going to load up some 700x for pigs this week and then some trail boss for Cowboy shooting. My next gun will be a .45-70 Sharps. Probably around February sometime..
Thanks for the info...
Jack

badgeredd
10-18-2008, 10:43 AM
I was a bit scared of shooting anything over 800 - 900 fps out of this Uberti. I was told that the linkage design was not very strong and I shouldn't load to heavy. I'd love to shoot a 300+ gr boolit out of it but figured the powder charge would tear up the action, or possibly me!! So tell me, should I keep the loads low? Or will the Uberti take a 1000fps round without damage?
Jack

WMJ,

Bear in mind that a 850 FPS load out of a pistol will be near 1000 FPS out of a 20" rifle barrel. If the load is safe out of a pistol, it'll be safe out of the replica rifle (modern steels and all). I had a Winny 94 in 45 Colt that was a tack driver with loads that checked 900 FPS out of my Blackhawk Bisley, although the bullets were j-word. I DID find that heavy slugs were much better than lighter (225 or so). Good luck,

Edd

WildmanJack
10-21-2008, 08:19 PM
Well today I took out the '73 and shot about 50 rounds of 230 gr rnfp over 5.5 gr. of 700X I was getting ( at 50 yards) 2 x's then 3 fliers. The fliers were mostly down and to the right. It drove me nuts. So tomorrow I'm going to try 6.o gr of 700X and the same boolets, then the same powder load under a 250 gr. rnfp. So we'll see what happens.

:confused:
Jack

DUKE NUKEM
11-27-2008, 07:15 PM
I had good luck with Trail Boss.

TCLouis
11-27-2008, 10:43 PM
First BRAND SPANKIN NEW gun, with cast boolit.

New gun, ONE random loading with no load development.

Shooting all over the place . . . .

A few ideas come to mind what the problem(s) might be.

PatMarlin
11-28-2008, 10:03 AM
I'd do a barrel break in with copper first using light loads and the shoot clean method.

Larry Gibson
11-28-2008, 01:35 PM
wildmanjack

Quite frankly your load is a pipsqeak cowboy action load. It may do fine out to the usual 25 yards for that "sport" but with the slow tist in your rifle you need a higher velocity to keep the bullets stable at longer range. Felix is correct, try 6 gr 700X and 6.5 and 7 gr. All are safe ".45 Colt" loads for the older gun actions. Your M73 should shoot that bullet well. I prefer the 200 gr Lee "cowboy" bullet in my rifle at 1100 fps. I also shoot a lot of SWC 200 gr .45ACP bullets. They are quite accurate. They look kind of funny and out of place in the .45 Colt but they sure do shoot good. I just worked up to good max loads in my Uberti SAA and then took that in the rifle...it worked out very well.

Larry Gibson

redhawk44
11-29-2008, 12:22 PM
If you want to use the space in the 45 LC case, about 7.5 grs. of Trail Boss is good for just over 800 fps when using a 200 gr. RNFP plain base bullet.

Other than that, about 6.5 grains of Accurate Arms #2 will get the same velocity.

The standard deviations are in the low teens to single digits with both these loads.

This is from a 4-5/8" Vaquaro. The sights aren't the best, but I get groups of about 4" offhand at 25 yds and I don't shoot the handgun a Hell of a lot better than that, whatever I shoot.:smile:

DUKE NUKEM
11-29-2008, 12:44 PM
Call me Jack. :-D

compass will
11-29-2008, 11:13 PM
is that a commercial cast 225 rnfp??
those do have a pretty small lube groove. but i have shot many of them with the plastic lube over 5.0 of clays.

I will second this load :).
I shoot a heaver (255gn) boolit in my 1892 Puma 45 rifle. In fact around 5 grains the cases come out cleaner (less blow back). works well in my wheel guns also, at wheel gun distances.

WildmanJack
11-30-2008, 11:31 AM
I will second this load :).
I shoot a heaver (255gn) boolit in my 1892 Puma 45 rifle. In fact around 5 grains the cases come out cleaner (less blow back). works well in my wheel guns also, at wheel gun distances.

Just got a Lee 255 gr. mold and cast a few dozen yesterday. So I'm gonna try them. I weighed the rounds and found that they are a bit on the light side, like 5 gr. light. I was kind of suprised as I'm using WW's for casting and thought they would load closer to the 255 gr. weight that the mold was designed for.
I let one of the range officers shoot my gun Friday, figured maybe it's me!!!! [smilie=b: He said he thought that the boolet needed to have more velocity as he was shooting low and the rear sight was topped out. So I guess I should just start working up a load with the new boolet.
I slugged the barrel last week and measured it at .450 wich also suprised me. I figured it would be bigger than that. So the new 255 gr boolets are not going to be sized, they cast at .452 I'm trying some spray on moly lube and we'll see what they do..

Jack

DUKE NUKEM
11-30-2008, 02:11 PM
Cast them hotter Jack and that shoud make them bigger.
Did you slug it from the breach?

Three44s
11-30-2008, 11:38 PM
A quick try:

Take your boolits and lube as you are ...... and then also lube with Lee Liquid Alox as well.

I would also concentrate on boolit size in relation to your gun's ACTUAL dimensions .... not what a gunsmith tells you the size he reads from "tea leaves".

And with that in mind: Get this book .................

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

And really ...... drop the lead slugs for a little bit and run J-words and do the break in.

To get a jump on cleaning lead ...... this trick is in the above book ....... get some copper scrubing pads (Copper Chore Boy) or equivalent and cut a tuft of it and wrap it around an old worn bore cleaning brush ....... but before you stuff a generic brand down any bore .... test it with a magnet ...... the cheap Chinnese clones are generally steel coated with copper .... NOT GOOD ......

If the so called copper scrubber sticks to a magnet ........ scrub something else with it but NOT your guns!

The Beartooth book is going to blow yer hat off! Get it as soon as you can .........

Three 44s

WildmanJack
12-01-2008, 10:23 AM
Thanks a million you guys. Duke, aft43er our phone conversation, I'm going to do the breach thing, Three 44's, I'm ordering that book right after I post this.. Thanks again fellas.. Sure appreciate the info.
Jack

WildmanJack
12-19-2008, 03:47 PM
Went to the range to day, Shot a lee 255 gr. rnfp over 6 gr. of 700X, not sized, and sprayed with moly spray lube. Man did that boolet make a difference. At 50 yds with open sights I shot consistant 1.5 inch groups. Sure glad I listen to you guys!!! Thanks for all the help. I may still fire lap the barrell to see fi I can tighten up that 1 1/2" group a bit...
Jack

:drinks::drinks::drinks::drinks:

goatboy_k
01-01-2009, 07:45 PM
i also had this problem with my 1894 marlin in .45 colt, couldn't get it to group with 200 gn slugs, all were sized to .454, ended up moving to 250's and it came right it. Decided that the extra bearing surfaces just keeps everything lined up better. I also use downsized 330 gould HP's in this gun and they do very well. My regular load for this rifle is 250 lead with 10gn unique.

WildmanJack
01-01-2009, 07:50 PM
Way to go Goatboy, glad u picked up on the heavier boolet. It took me a while, I was ready to trash the gun.. Now I'm VERY happy I didn't..
Jack

goatboy_k
01-01-2009, 08:00 PM
yea it's my go to plinker these days, 10 rounds, no recoil and big holes!!