LEE 356-125-2R in 9mm Luger Cartridge Overall Length?

[DonMountain]

Does the LEE reloading manual give Cartridge Overall Lengths for their bullet molds? I am looking for their book Cartridge Overall Length for their LEE 356-125-2R mold loaded in a 9mm Luger case. If somebody has one of the LEE manuals I would appreciate this information. Thanks. It seems like some of the manuals I have don't list Cartridge Overall Lengths for certain bullets.

[Shiloh]

Does it fit in the chamber completely doing the plunk test???

Shiloh

[Bazoo]

I think Lees data is lacking. Here is there manual http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading%20Manuals/Modern%20Reloading%202nd%20Edition%20by%20Richard% 20Lee%20-%20ocr.pdf

Bazoo

[DonMountain]

Does it fit in the chamber completely doing the plunk test???

Shiloh

No/yes. Of course if I push it far enough into the case it will fit. What I am trying to determine is how far to seat it and get the pressures/loads to work correctly. Thats why I use a reloading manual. I am supposed to get the pressures they determine if I use the same cartridge overall length they do in building the loading data.

[Tom W.]

Not all of the time you won't.

Using a load manual is proper, but some things just aren't to be found. My example is the Lee 356-120 tc boolits. It works well with one pistol after it's sized to .357, the other likes .358.
Even doing the "plunk test" with the first pistol if the diameter isn't .357 it will jam after the second shot.
Sometimes the COL is what it needs to be rather than what's published. All chambers are different.

[Rcmaveric]

I believe the Lyman cast bullet hand book has thay bullet in it. I think. Or measure it your self. The same way we measure seating depth for rifles works the same on pistols.

-Close the bolt with gun unloaded.
-Drop a dowel insise the barrel. Mark at muzzle.
- Insert you bullet in the chamber and hold with a pencil or something like it or a small dowel section.
- Mark your dowel that is in the barrel again.
- Measure between the two marks is your max col.

I take about .002 to .003 off that ( ensures smooth chambering with minor col changes). Seat a dummy round and try the plunk test.

If reloading for a bunch of guns. Measure them all a few times and go with shortest COL.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[DonMountain]

I appreciate all the help here and the recommendations. After measuring the Cartridge Overall Length after seating this bullet to the maximum length that will chamber using the "plunk test" I came up with an OAL of 1.072". And this is in the ballpark of some similar bullets in the Lyman #4 manual. Starting with the lowest listed load for a 125 grain bullet of 3.9 grains of W-231, it functions the gun very well and I don't see any pressure signs or flattened primers. Now I need to load a bunch and test for accuracy before I try different powders. I will compare the accuracy with the Winchester purchased loads to see what I can do with cast bullets.

[Conditor22]

Optimum seating depth (still feeds and seats with the best accuracy) will vary with every gun

I read somewhere that you can hold the boolit in the chamber so it's touching the rifling. slide the biggest rod down the barrel and mark where the end of the barrel is. If there is a big gap between the barrel and the rod, you can use a washer the fits snug around the rod to help with marking.
remove the boolit then put the gun into battery, use the same rod and measure it again. Do the math, this is your max depth. Back it off a couple thou.

now you have to worry about feeding.

[ChuckO]

I read somewhere that you can hold the boolit in the chamber so it's touching the rifling. slide the biggest rod down the barrel and mark where the end of the barrel is. If there is a big gap between the barrel and the rod, you can use a washer the fits snug around the rod to help with marking.
remove the boolit then chamber an empty piece of brass, use the same rod and measure it again. Do the math, this is your max depth. Back it off a couple thou.

Instead of chambering on an empty piece of brass, close the chamber empty to touch the bolt face with the rod. That will be the maximum depth.

[Dusty Bannister]

Old method often repeated but works.


How to determine the cartridge OAL with a dowel or cleaning rod.

Cleaning rod/dowel method of finding cartridge OAL

This is what I use for my guns to determine the max OAL and this eliminates any question of the crimp, incorrect case prep, or other operator induced error.

This method works well on rifles and single shot pistols as well as Semi-autos. You can use a flat tipped cleaning rod, or flat tipped dowel rod. You will also need a sharp pointed pencil, a short dowel and a bullet sized but clean, of the type you are going to load.

For Rifles
Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.

The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.

For Semi-auto pistols
Remove the barrel from the slide and make sure it is clean and free of leading or other debris in the barrel and chamber. The dowel or cleaning rod needs to be longer than the barrel. Hold the barrel, muzzle up, and place the barrel hood on a flat surface like a table top. Insert the dowel or rod from the muzzle and mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove the rod and insert the bullet you intend to use into the chamber and lightly press and hold it in place with the short dowel. Place the assy muzzle up on the flat surface. Insert the rod/dowel into the muzzle so it rests on the nose of the bullet and again mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove and set the barrel aside. The distance on the center of the two lines is the cartridge OAL. Seat a dummy round to this length, or slightly shorter and begin to apply the taper crimp until the dummy passes the plunk test. This is the optimim cartridge OAL length for this bullet in this gun.

You may need to adjust the seater to shorten the OAL if this does not feed from the magazine, but generally this will be a great fit. Remember, if you seat and crimp in one step, you might force a slight ridge ahead of the case mouth and that will screw up your seating.
Dusty

[DonMountain]

How many of you seat your bullets first and then crimp as a separate operation? Is it worth doing this with lead projectiles in 9mm Luger calibers?

[Taterhead]

I seat and crimp in separate operations for 8 out of 9 hand gun cartridges I load cast bullets for. Yes, definitely worth doing for 9mm cast.

[Rcmaveric]

I set and crimp at separate operations on all my guns. If you seat and crimp at the same time the die has a tendency to start crimping before the bullet is finnished being seated. It cause random leading events for me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[joebaja]

My notes say I had to seat that one all the way down to 1.03 to get it to chamber and feed reliably. Never got great accuracy, but didn't do a lot of development. It is something I hope to come back to, but the 120 TC ran better for me, so I went with that.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Starting with the lowest listed load for a 125 grain bullet of 3.9 grains of W-231, it functions the gun very well and I don't see any pressure signs or flattened primers. Now I need to load a bunch and test for accuracy before I try different powders. I will compare the accuracy with the Winchester purchased loads to see what I can do with cast bullets.

You've got the right approach. I've never found published data for Lee molds. I've always just worked my way up from a published load, or 10% of a published max. To tell the truth I don't think I've ever settled at max. I always seem to find happiness somewhere below max.

A chronograph is your friend.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have that same mold. The way I approached it:

Hodgon publishes 3 loads for 124-125 grain bullets on their website using CFE-Pistol.

The published start loads are: 4.4, 4.6, & 4.9 grains. So I started with 4.4 grains.

The published OALs are: 1.125", 1.090", 1.150" respective to the charges above.

I researched the length of the bullet listed with the 1.090" OAL and found that it is actually a longer bullet than the Lee 356-125-2R. So seating the Lee boolit to the same 1.090" OAL would yield less seating depth than the published bullet.

I did the plunk test, loaded a dummy cartridge with my Lee boolit and settled on 1.125" as a compromise OAL that passed the plunk test but also seemed to feed well.

From there I worked at that 4.4 grain start charge and am up to 5.1 grains with velocity and point of impact similar to my carry ammo. The cases eject sooty, primers are well-rounded, there is no leading, and groups are as good as I can expect for a sub-compact 9mm. The published max charges are 5.0, 5.1, & 5.5 grains. So I'm right in the ball-park.

The published velocities for those max charges are 1156, 1118, & 1120 fps for a 4" barrel. My velocity is 996 fps but that's for a 3.15" barrel so expect it to be lower than published.

I had a bit of a pucker-moment when I used Remington 1 1/2 primers which gave a weird halo around the primer dimple. Almost looked like cratering, but upon closer inspection it was just a factor of the way Remington primers are made.

[ddcrawford]

I have that same mold. The way I approached it:

Hodgon publishes 3 loads for 124-125 grain bullets on their website using CFE-Pistol.

The published start loads are: 4.4, 4.6, & 4.9 grains. So I started with 4.4 grains.

The published OALs are: 1.125", 1.090", 1.150" respective to the charges above.

I researched the length of the bullet listed with the 1.090" OAL and found that it is actually a longer bullet than the Lee 356-125-2R. So seating the Lee boolit to the same 1.090" OAL would yield less seating depth than the published bullet.

I did the plunk test, loaded a dummy cartridge with my Lee boolit and settled on 1.125" as a compromise OAL that passed the plunk test but also seemed to feed well.

From there I worked at that 4.4 grain start charge and am up to 5.1 grains with velocity and point of impact similar to my carry ammo. The cases eject sooty, primers are well-rounded, there is no leading, and groups are as good as I can expect for a sub-compact 9mm. The published max charges are 5.0, 5.1, & 5.5 grains. So I'm right in the ball-park.

The published velocities for those max charges are 1156, 1118, & 1120 fps for a 4" barrel. My velocity is 996 fps but that's for a 3.15" barrel so expect it to be lower than published.

I had a bit of a pucker-moment when I used Remington 1 1/2 primers which gave a weird halo around the primer dimple. Almost looked like cratering, but upon closer inspection it was just a factor of the way Remington primers are made.

I see this thread is almost a year old but I just purchased this mold from a member here, so I'm going down this road now. I'm wanting to load this for for my S&W M&P shield 9mm. Did you stick with the 1.125" OAL?