PDA

View Full Version : Who uses XMP-5744??



Edward429451
12-04-2005, 02:03 PM
Lyman's 48th shows XMP-5744 all over the place, mostly for cast and with lots of accuracy loads. This must be a good consistent powder...

Any of you guys use it? How do you like it? Thought about picking some up but wanted some feedback from users first.

Johnch
12-04-2005, 03:18 PM
Well it is not surpluss , but a great powder .
I us it in loads from the 44 mag rifle , 45/70 ,762 x 39 , 308 , 8 x 57 , 30-06 , 303 and 762x 54 to name a few .

I bought 32 lb a few years back and just started the last 8 lb jug .

I guess I like it .

Johnch

BCB
12-04-2005, 07:09 PM
I believe when it first arrived on the market, it was advertised as a good powder for reduced loads such as cast bullet loads. I have an 8-pound keg that is nearing the end of its contents. I have used it in the 7-30 Waters, 30-30, 445 SM, 44 Magnum, and the 270. It is the best accuracy I have found in the 270 with the Lyman 280642 and the sized down 287346. I think you will find a use for it. Good-luck...BCB

Maven
12-04-2005, 07:43 PM
I've also used several pounds of it and was very pleased with its performance in .30cal. (including metric .30's), 8 x 57mm and .45-70 cartridges, but not in the .357Mag. Variations in velocity (extreme spreads & standard deviations) are consistently low with 5744 in the aforementioned cartridges, plus it flows through powder measures quite readily. I wish there was a milsurp clone of it for I'd buy it in an instant!

SharpsShooter
12-04-2005, 08:09 PM
I've also used several pounds of it and was very pleased with its performance in .30cal. (including metric .30's), 8 x 57mm and .45-70 cartridges, but not in the .357Mag. Variations in velocity (extreme spreads & standard deviations) are consistently low with 5744 in the aforementioned cartridges, plus it flows through powder measures quite readily. I wish there was a milsurp clone of it for I'd buy it in an instant!


Maven,

What type of loads do you use in the 45-70? I've heard good stuff about 5744 used in this caliber. Boolit weights, charge weights etc. I've used 4064 for much of my loads over the years and wonder if I'm missing out on a better choice of powder.

Maven
12-04-2005, 09:08 PM
Sharps, I use 27gr. of 5744 with CB's of 345gr. (Lee 340gr. & 405gr. HB) - 465gr. (LBT) in my Marlin #336 (22" microgroove bbl.) and can slightly better than 2 m.o.a. accuracy on a good day. 13gr. of Unique also works well (one big hole @ 50 yds.) and am going to try WC 820 in the near future. I'm thinking 15 - 18 gr. (Well, maybe 17gr.) should suffice for target work. Btw, I use a thin paper disk cut from a subscription card (7/16" punch) atop the powder, even 5744, to keep it next to the primer. Said disks also enable you to tell at a glance which cases have powder in them. Although you didn't ask, the rifle is equally accurate with BP (70gr. by weight of FFFg) or Pyro. P (70gr. by volume).

omgb
12-04-2005, 09:12 PM
5744 is my "go-to" powder in the 45-90. It's very accurate and it fills the case just enough that fillers aren't required. I use 28.5 to 30 grains in the 45-90 with Fed 215 primers and an LBT 520 grain LFN slug lubed with LBT blue.

Johnch
12-04-2005, 10:42 PM
This is Accurate's load data for 5744 and using CCI 200 primers .
Cowboy action loads

300 gr plain base bullet , 27.9 gr for 1405 fps - 31.0 gr for 1597 fps at 18,500 CUP

405 gr plain base bullet , 24.7 gr for 1192 fps - 27.5 gr for 1355 fps at 18,800 CUP

500 gr plain base bullet , 22.5 gr for 1063 fps - 25.0 gr for 1209 fps at 18,700 CUP

Other Accurate loads , these are listed as max
Lm 340 gr HP 30.0 gr for 1495 fps
Lm 378 gr GC 28.5 gr for 1418 fps
Lm 475 gr GC 27.0 gr for 1253 fps
Lm 530 gr RN 28.5 gr for 1280 fps

I see they are holding these loads at around 18,800 CUP or less to be safe in Trap Door rifles .


Johnch

omgb
12-04-2005, 11:13 PM
30 grains gives me 1375-1412 fps in my Pedersoli Sharps. If I up it to 32 grains I get very flat primers and 1500 fps. My guess is that load must be generating 35,000 or so. The Pedersoli is rated for 28, 000 so I try not to exceed 30 grains. besides, that crescent butt plate digs deep into my shoulder after 20 or so of those brutes.

Buckshot
12-05-2005, 07:04 AM
............I remember years ago that some of the silhuette guys at the range were using it (in what I don't know). This was when it was a surplus powder Accurate was selling. One of the guys asked me if I wanted what he had left over. He said he was disgusted with it as it was really dirty.

I bought a pound of it much later after Accurate had the Czechs making it for them. It produced some pretty good results for me in a few cartridges I tried it in. I'm rather fixated on 4198 though :D

..............Buckshot

Edward429451
12-05-2005, 09:55 AM
I just knew that powder had to be good stuff with all the data for it in the manual. I seen it listed for 308, 30/06, 30/30, and 45/70 too IIRC. Great, I have all those calibers and just love crossover powder to save space..

Maven, you did mean for your 1895 when you said this,

"I use 27gr. of 5744 with CB's of 345gr. (Lee 340gr. & 405gr. HB) - 465gr. (LBT) in my Marlin #336 (22" microgroove bbl.)..."

didn't you?

I noticed a couple of you guys listed it as used with 44 mag also. I couldn't find any data for it under rifle or pistol though. Whats a starting load for it there? (I use Lymans 180gWC, 245Keith, 300GCKeith, and the Lee 255gSWCGC).

This is a great board! I love the atmosphere here. You guys are supercool.

Scrounger
12-05-2005, 10:27 AM
I noticed a couple of you guys listed it as used with 44 mag also. I couldn't find any data for it under rifle or pistol though. Whats a starting load for it there? (I use Lymans 180gWC, 245Keith, 300GCKeith, and the Lee 255gSWCGC).

It is very close in burning rate to IMR 4759 and IMR 4227; Use their starting loads and work up.

sundog
12-05-2005, 10:50 AM
Scrounger, I just looked on Accurate's web site and found data you are looking for. You have to have Adobe Reader installed to view the load data, but it's there. sundog

http://www.accuratepowder.com/

1Shirt
12-05-2005, 11:10 AM
For me, the stuff shoots well in every thing I have tried it in with cast. Probably will always shoot more 2400, Unique, Red Dot, and 4759 than anything else. However----If I came up with a real deal on a quantity of anything that shoots well under cast, would not turn it down.
1Shirt :coffee:

David R
12-05-2005, 07:23 PM
Its the only powder that gave me an ES of 1 in 3 shots.
I don't use it because I'm "frugal" read Cheap bas****. If powder isn't $10.00 a pound, I don't buy it any more.

Great stuff.
David

Maven
12-05-2005, 09:01 PM
Edward429451, My Marlin is a #336 (ca. 1992) and is identical in appearance to my #336 in 30-30Win. (The magazines are different lengths of course.) Btw, the factory trigger pull on the .45-70 is quite good, not so on the .30-30.

Edward429451
12-06-2005, 01:00 AM
They made 336's as 45/70's? Never knew that.

My 1895G had a real crunchy trigger when I first got it but I sprung for one of those 'Happy Trigger Kits' from WWG in AK.(89.), and like it a lot. It's like a whole different gun. It went in real easy too. Still the sizing/accuracy/load issues to work out for it but now I just have to think about pulling it and it goes.

Lotsa good new data for me on that site, thanks.

TCLouis
12-06-2005, 11:15 PM
Bill Falin told me not to worry that it was such a good powder for them that they would find another manufacturer capable of making it, but right then tey had several other projects that had to be finished and marketed first. Sure enough along came XMP5744 in a couple of three years.

Now Western Powder may NOT have the same feelings about it so I would suggest a quick email (by one AND ONLY ONE person) asking about future plans. They were VERY responsive to a question posed to them recently.

SMALL companies are GREAT, one can still contact a higher level person without some salesOgeek with NO technichical knowledge responding.


Just an opinion and we know all about them . . . DON'T we?

txpete
12-16-2005, 10:10 AM
its all I burn in my 45/70,great powder.
pete
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/thumper.jpg

McLintock
12-16-2005, 12:48 PM
I've went through close to 11-12 lbs of it since it came out, mostly in 45-70 but some in 38-55, 45 Colt and 44 Special. In 45-70, started with the load on the bottle of 28 gr and 405 bullet and found it left lots of unburned particles both in the gun, both action and barrel, and out in front where it was blown. Tended to clog up the sear engagement surfaces of the Browning Single Shots I was using it in, and the hammer wouldn't stay cocked when closing the action; plus was a pretty stout load when shooting a lot. Filled the action of my Browning '86 with particles. Dropped the charge to anywhere from 22.5 to 24 grs and all these problems ended and the accuracy increased significantly. Never could get a load for the 38-55 that would outshoot either 4227 or 3031 so quit using it in that caliber. Tried it in both 45 Colt and 44 Special pistol loads, but also couldn't get it to outshoot other loads I was using, so quit using it in pistol loads also. Wouldn't be without it for the 45-70 though.
McLintock

mag_01
12-16-2005, 06:17 PM
:p Great powder I love it-- reduced loads---- not case sensitive---I have worked up some good loads in 308 and 30-30--have punched clean holes in 3/8ths. steel plates at 50 yrds.---160 lead. good energy and I dont find it to be dirty --- . Try it ul like it ---Mag_01------groups seem to be good on the upper end.

txpete
12-17-2005, 10:35 AM
in my 03 tried a load with the G.I. surplus 173 match(forgive my sin)
29.0 grs 5744
lc brass
win primer
and that ol 03 was holding a inch at 100 yards with my bifocal eyes.

just finshed up a batch of 160,185 lee's for the next time out after deer season.
pete

straightshooter1
12-18-2005, 04:31 PM
A very experienced cast shooter at our local range uses 14.5 grains of 5744 w/the 165 RCBS boolits in his 308s. I know, that's waaaay too light. Then I tried it in my 308 Springfield 03A3 match rifle which is set up for High Power type matches.

All I can say is that it was amazing. Recoil slightly more than a 22 rimfire and an inch or better at 100 yards if I did my part (whcih was hard because I was so surprised).

I tried it in an '03 30'06 w/some 170 Saecos he cast for me. Pretty good, but I felt I wanted a bit more velocity. (No idea what the speed was, just seemed to need more). Plan to try 15, 15.5 and 16 grains when I get a chance.

Bob

Edward429451
12-18-2005, 04:51 PM
I've been to busy banging on furnaces to check in lately but wow, from the sound of it I best be getting me some 5744.

Dirty don't bother me as long as it does what I want. It can't be any dirtier than 2400 I would think.

My new mould came in, a Lyman 457643 but too busy / cold to cast. By the time I get home the sun's behind the mountain and the garage with no heat turns fridgid fast.

Nobody stocks 5744 locally. Guess I'll have to order it.

I appreciate all the responses and especially the application to various calibers. I had 45/70 in mind but have 30/30. .308, /06, and 44's too, to try iy in. Thanks guys and keep em comin'!

DAFzipper
12-12-2008, 12:52 PM
IS XMP-5744 the same as AA-5744?

StrawHat
12-12-2008, 01:09 PM
DAFzipper IS XMP-5744 the same as AA-5744?


Bill Falin told me not to worry that it was such a good powder for them that they would find another manufacturer capable of making it, but right then tey had several other projects that had to be finished and marketed first. Sure enough along came XMP5744 in a couple of three years.


Yes it is the same.

405
12-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Very versatile powder for cast loads. I use a lot of it in lower pressure loads for big straight wall cartridges.

It can be annoying because of the unburned kernels. Takes a little getting used to.
I've gotten some of the lowest SDs and ESs over the chrono in the 45-70 cast loads in the 1150-1250 velocity range using fluffy dacron filler. Just shot a 5 shot group using 440gr cast and very light load of 5744 the other day at .95" @ 100yds with a tang sighted Sharps in 45-70. The SD for that group was 5 and the ES was 11.

One thing I've noticed at the higher pressure loads in bottleneck cartridge shooting is that the unburned kernel thing goes away. And in even the low pressure loads, 5744 is actually fairly clean. Always some unburned kernels but very low soot and carbon build up. As mentioned in a previous post there are some powders that are very sooty.... 5744 seems clean in that comparison.

mstarling
12-12-2008, 09:20 PM
I use it for cast loads in:

.308 Win
9,3x62 Mauser
9,3x74R (in a double rifle)
.375 H&H
.376 Steyr
.376/.416 Steyr Improved
.416 Rigby
.458 AR (wildcat .375 RUM case shortened and opened up to .458 ... is cannon!)
.470 Nitro Express (in a double rifle)

Would probably use it in .338 calibers too if I had bullet molds.

Works fine and the cost per round is relatively low.

TCLouis
12-13-2008, 12:01 AM
A fellow at the range stumbled across 3 jugs of it in some trading deal and was selling it. I found out about it when he was down to one jug. He was wondering why anyone would pay 60 bucks a jug for it.
Dang if I coulda just got all three jugs.

TCLouis
12-13-2008, 12:14 AM
There were loads for the 44 Mag using 5744 way back in the blue cover edition of the freebie handloading data manual from Accurate Arms when they were still here in McEwen.

I have one squirreled away some place, but where . . .

Explorer1
01-04-2009, 01:53 AM
I used many lbs of in in a 357 Max with 200 gr cast bullets; great for slamming rams at 200 meters!

Seafarer12
01-04-2009, 02:10 AM
I use it to form 7-30 Waters cases. I use cast bullets to form my cases and 5744 . I get full pressure but keep the velocity down. It works fine for that. I haven't used it in much else.

RU shooter
01-04-2009, 02:39 PM
A very experienced cast shooter at our local range uses 14.5 grains of 5744 w/the 165 RCBS boolits in his 308s. I know, that's waaaay too light. Then I tried it in my 308 Springfield 03A3 match rifle which is set up for High Power type matches.

All I can say is that it was amazing. Recoil slightly more than a 22 rimfire and an inch or better at 100 yards if I did my part (whcih was hard because I was so surprised).

I tried it in an '03 30'06 w/some 170 Saecos he cast for me. Pretty good, but I felt I wanted a bit more velocity. (No idea what the speed was, just seemed to need more). Plan to try 15, 15.5 and 16 grains when I get a chance.

Bob I also use it for local recuced course 200 yd Highpower and CMP matches but I use a bit more in the 30-06 ,18-19 grs with the Lee 155 boolit lays them all in the 10 ring time after time with a decent X count, Seems like it does indeed need more pressure as it leaves alot of half burnt kernels in the bore, I still prefer 14 grs of unique as accuracy is as good or better and burns cleaner.

Tim

yodar
03-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Bill Falin told me not to worry that it was such a good powder for them that they would find another manufacturer capable of making it, but right then tey had several other projects that had to be finished and marketed first. Sure enough along came XMP5744 in a couple of three years.

Now Western Powder may NOT have the same feelings about it so I would suggest a quick email (by one AND ONLY ONE person) asking about future plans. They were VERY responsive to a question posed to them recently.

SMALL companies are GREAT, one can still contact a higher level person without some salesOgeek with NO technichical knowledge responding.


Just an opinion and we know all about them . . . DON'T we?

Years ago. At that time I was 'splorin for a cast load for 7.62 x 39.

Bill said try it, but he said the powder was more suited to MUCH heavier bullets, which is why it is listed in their CAS catalog.

He says it is comparable to a SLOOOOW pistol powder or a VERY FAST rifle powder.

I believe it is 24% nitro. I gave away most of my 5744, for in my application it had a very narrow loading window for performance and accuracy, plus or minus 1 grain for a 130 gr cast bullet.

Left a lotta unburnt powder in the bbl. and never really developed pressure.

I was using it in the wrong application.



yodar

NickSS
03-09-2009, 12:59 AM
I use it is 45-70, 45-90, 38-55, 30-30 and 56-50 Spencer. Works great in all of them. I use 29 gr with a 300 gr boolit in the 45-70. This has proved to be really accurate in about 7 different rifles I have tried it in. I use 18 gr with a 250 gr bullet in my 38-55 rifles for groups of under 1.5 inches at 100 yards with iron sights. Same for my 30-30 94 winchester 18 gr powder and a 170 gr LFPGC bullet. I use 20 gr with a 370 gr slug in my 56-50 Spencer and 25 gr and a 450 gr slug in my 50-70 trapdoor. I love the stuff and Just bought two kegs of it to keep me shooting.

big bore 99
06-26-2014, 05:48 PM
I'm also having lots of unburned powder left in barrel. I called accurate awhile back and a tech said to never use a filler
dacron or otherwise. It could ring your barrel or chamber Maybe a hotter load will work with a little crimp? I've been shooting an Italian Sharps and a buffalo classic with a 405 gr bullet and 26gr of 5744. I've gotten in the habit of holding the barrel up and giving it a little shake before shooting. Everyone laughs, but it burns cleaner and real good accuracy at 100 yds. Not something I'd like to do if hunting though.

.22-10-45
06-26-2014, 08:07 PM
The most accurate smokeless powder I have found for my original Remington short-range .40-50 B.N. However in the .40-70 2 1/2" & .40-70 2 1/4" B.N. not so much. Tried it once in the little Hornet...after 1 shot there was so much semi & unburned powder..I couldn't chamber another round!

Artful
06-26-2014, 08:21 PM
it works nicely in 300 Whisper/Blackout AR's

omgb
06-26-2014, 10:44 PM
5744 loves heavy bullets, strong crimps and in some cases, magnum primers. I'd change that 405 grain bullet out for a 520. That's what I use in my 45-90 with excellent results.

big bore 99
06-27-2014, 02:33 PM
Thanks ombg.
Have a Lee 500gr mold here. will try some out with that and a good crimp. That may delay the bullet long enough to get good ignition.
What lube do you use?

omgb
06-27-2014, 02:36 PM
SPG for anything under1600 fps and LBT soft blue for anything over that. SPG works great with any 5744 load

omgb
06-27-2014, 03:06 PM
Has anyone noticed that this thread began in Dec of 2005? Seems like a lifetime ago. My dad was alive and so was my mom, my grandsons had not yet been born, I was 60 lbs lighter and had hair. We had a pretty good president, the economy was booming, powder was cheap and plentiful, and some of our fellow shooters were still with us.

big bore 99
06-27-2014, 05:32 PM
I know what you're saying. It goes so fast. Just like a roll of toilet paper, the closer you get to the end, the faster it goes.
Thanks, I'll get some SPG. Hard to find any reloading stuff anymore.

Alferd Packer
06-27-2014, 06:41 PM
Also Lyman has since published their 49th Manual out for awhile and also the 4th edition Cast Bullet Manual.
But, there's nothing like this site for info!
Thanks.

smkummer
06-28-2014, 05:23 PM
5744 worked in anything we tried it in using published loads. My only issue was the price. I was able to make unique work for me in 45-70 and the powder cost dropped to about 1/3. 2400 worked as well in 30-06 with cast lead at about 3/5 the cost. 2400/4198 works as well in 30-40 Krag again for less. I read somewhere that is burning rate is close 4198 but of course its less position sensitive.

gpidaho
06-28-2014, 05:35 PM
Ed: My only experience is with the new version. I bought some because it was used in so many loads in the Lyman Man. I don't have a problem with its on target performance but it burns so filthy in my guns with my loads I think I might use it for the 4th of July fireworks or garden fertilizer .GP

Me not you
07-04-2014, 07:12 PM
I use it under an NOE316299 in a Finnish M91 with excellent results. I'm driving the slug at about 1950fps and the old warrior (1896) shoots better with the load than I can. The slugs are cast of WDWW and sized to 0.315 for MY bore. Somewhere I read an article on how to (VERY CAREFULLY) heat treat the forward part of the bullet to soften it for expansion with the rest submerged in water. If I can do that I'll have an effective hunting load.