How’s my flare ?

[zymguy]

I’m using lee 3 pc pistol die set for reloading my 327 fed. The powder through flare die is obnoxious. The up swing of the handle/down of the ram hangs up in the die . I’ve read it’s on purpose to shake powder . I’m batch loading in a tray so the jarring is unwelcome. I have a lee universal flare die , so I have been using it instead. Which got me to thinking...... how’s my flare look ? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/12fb609f21db70126e128f4d2b06a4e7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Michael J. Spangler]

Not too bad but it might be a little excessive.
I would back it off a bit and see if you can still start a bullet.
Nice looking bullets.

[trails4u]

I agree....not bad by any means, but more than needed.

[Taterhead]

Looks like a touch much. Recommend backing off a bit.

The main issue with skipping the powder through expander is that the Universal Expander does nothing to set the interior diameter of the neck, whereas the shank of the powder through expander does that. The bullet is likely squishing into a neck that is too narrow. Possibly swaging boolits to a smaller diameter.

Recommend loading a couple dummies and pulling them to see if any boolit diameter is lost.

EDITED again to add: JBinMN mentioned below the NOE expander plugs. Great idea. The shank on the Lee powder through expanders tend to be short. So they won't expand to the extent of the full bearing surface of the boolit. So, again, swaging the heal of the boolit can be a problem. The NOE plugs will solve that problem and can be used with the Universal Expander that you already have. They tend to plunge deeper into the case and give a nice M step on the case mouth.

[JBinMN]

Ditto the other two... now 3 replies.
I would back off a little as well.

I don't like to see a flare that allows "shadow" when the boolit is sitting like the one in the pic. I like the edges of the case mouth to just be a "smidge" more than the boolit base diameter.

I only put enough flare to allow the boolit to sit on top just enough to where it won't fall off as I bring the ram up to seat, and so it is not shaving any part of the sides.

Mainly to not overwork the brass.

I found that using the NOE expander plugs in a Lee Univ. Flare die works just right for me with cast boolits & the little bit of the flare at the mouth does not have much of that "trumpet", or "bugle" mouth look.

You can certainly keep doing it like ya show in the pic, but you may get a bit more case life by flaring just a touch less.

I think a way to know for sure if you are flaring too much is when you take a tool like the Lyman deburring tool & when it placed in the case mouth, there is any portion of the case mouth edge that would not get deburred by the tool if you used it by having the case mouth opened up too far. Meaning if ya spun it, it would be taking brass off inside the case, but not up on the edge of the case mouth, leaving a ring of untouched brass..

G'Luck!
:)

P.S. - If by chance you are not using the narrow plug & are using the fatter one, you may want to change over & try the narrow tapered plug.

[Wheelgun]

Looks fine to me. Maybe a little excessive but about what mine look like on 32 H&Rs. I’ve started buying the NOE expander plugs for the Lee universal expanding die. They work amazing for me.

What mold is that bullet from?

Edit- Lol looks like JBinMN beat me to it on the NOE expander die.

[zymguy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/269b89a6f7aa4857bc259afb43517cb7.jpg
One full turn the die didn’t touch, half a turn shown on the left side of the second photo https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/0329a8cfee572cd321651f2d30e80d07.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zymguy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/9fb3bd2a47ba70d1ae7158e67f5ab745.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wheelgun]

For me personally this last picture isn’t flared enough. If I don’t flare more than that I get lead and/or PC scrapping/shaving. But maybe that’s just me

I’ve been at your original picture again. Is there shadow or reflection that make the flare look more excessive than it actually is??

[MrHarmless]

I would split the line between your first and last pictures. I like to just be able to feel the flare, and then gently increase until I can seat about 1/16 of an inch into the case.

[zymguy]

Last pic and first pic are half the of the sharpie marked top of the die turn different.
I do think the photo makes the flare look bigger than it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JBinMN]

One thing no one has mentioned is that unless you are trimming your cases to be the same length, there is going to be some leeway in case length & that will have an effect on just how much flare you get. Meaning that if you set the flare for one untrimmed .327 Fed. Mag. case at 1.22" and then you put one that is 1.20 in to be flared, it will not flare as much as the longer case, & vice versa, if you set the flare on a case that measures 1.20" & then you put a case that is 1.22" then the flare will be bigger on the second longer case.

Now most folks do not trim their pistol cases, and if you do not want to do that either, then you may have to set your flare for what you find is an average for the shortest cases you have & then anything longer will be flared just a bit more using that setting. Doing so will allow you to keep the die at one setting all the time & not have to adjust for shorter case length.

Sure it might take you measuring some of your cases to find out what length to set the desired flare on the ave. shortest case length, but once you have set for the shortest average( or measure the batch & find the shortest in that batch, if you want to really get particular), then you can be assured that you won't be having to adjust the die anymore, unless you move it from its' setting for some reason or by mistake, or you have a completely different batch ( or manufacturer/headstamp) that has a bit more or less case length and need to adjust a bit for that new case length.

That is one reason I try to not use mixed brass in batches, but instead, I take the time to match brass to the manufacturer( headstamp) in the hopes that the cases being from the same maker will be reasonably close to the same length. Keeping track of times reloaded will help as well since some brass will shorten,( like 45ACP, for example), and others might get a bit longer after so many times shot & reloaded. Anyway, keeping them sorted by headstamp & times reloaded will certainly help.

You can always take the time to trim them one time & then you will know that they are all reasonably close to one another( Particularly when you buy "new" brass) and should remain close to the same after that one time of doing it. If you want to apply to "botttleneck" cases instead of straight wall, of course you will have to do some trimming after so many firings just because of what happens to botttleneck brass as compare to straightwall brass when fired.

I realize I may have taken longer to type out what I was swanting to post & other could have done so with more brevity & being more concise, & I feel bad for that, but I think I said the above clear enough to make some sense. I tried anyway. Sometimes I am just not good at putting what I want to say into typed out words.

Once again, G'Luck! and I hope I could help ya out some, like the others here...
:)

[Wayne Smith]

Invest in the NOE expanders since you have the Lee die. Not terribly expensive and well worth it.

[lightman]

The first picture looks a little excessive while the last one looks like it needs a little more. I prefer a more gradual bell than that die is making. The happy place is just enough to not damage the bullet when seating and no more. Like JB posted, case length may require a compromise between too much and not enough.

[mdi]

I don't use that much flare (but I've been reloading for over 35 years), but the only limiting factor for "too much flare" is the seating die. If the flare is really too big, the case will scrape the ID of the sizing die and some may not enter the die. After seating the flare is removed in the next step; crimping. Your 327 brass is readily available and prolly not overly costly, so be concerned with getting good shootable ammo now, and worry about case life later...

[P Flados]

Your photo in post #8 looks real close to what I try for.

Seat three or four boolits & look real close for and shaving. If needed rotate the die in about 1/12 of a turn (visualize one hour on a clock face).

[gwpercle]

Looks good to me , I prefer to have a little more flare so when a short case pops up it doesn't cause a problem. Don't you just hate having to stop and add some flare to a case in the middle of a good run !
Gary

[frydaddy96]

I go with just enough to get the boolit in the case and still into the seating die. I've had a few, when working to get to the correct flare 'fighting' to go in the seating die, haven't had a wrinkled case yet.

[zymguy]

I go with just enough to get the boolit in the case and still into the seating die. I've had a few, when working to get to the correct flare 'fighting' to go in the seating die, haven't had a wrinkled case yet.

You’ve NEVER had a wrinkled case !!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Omega]

Nothing to add, just that the title reminded me of the Office Space Flair scene. I'd post a link except it contains a bit of profanity

[zymguy]

Nothing to add, just that the title reminded me of the Office Space Flair scene. I'd post a link except it contains a bit of profanity

Thank you ! thats what i was going for

[GregLaROCHE]

NOE expanders are not expensive. Buy a few different sizes in the range you should need, then find what works best for you.

[BigMagShooter]

15 pieces of flair is the minimum, but look at Brian he has 37..... :D

[megasupermagnum]

I've tried various NOE expander plugs with .314" bullets. The .313" plug is too big, .312" feels on the light side for neck tension when seating bullets, although I tried shooting them with no bullets pulling at all. I like the .315"x.311", and it seems that gives the best neck tension without sizing down soft bullets. .315" is the short section so you can start bullets, .311" is the section that actually holds the bullet, aka neck tension. Your hardened bullets will handle more neck tension than the 20-1 alloy I often play with. I cannot start .314" bullets with the .314"x.310" plug, I have to run them through a flare die separately, although it might be a good choice if sizing to .313".


I finally got back to shooting these bullets last weekend, I am narrowing in on the sweet spot. 7.5 grains Bluedot with CCI 500 primer seems to be the winner, although 12 grains H110 with CCI 550 primer is not bad. I want to try H110 with a standard primer next. I have also found 4 grains American Select to be very good, I need to sit down and do a formal group test with that. They are the Accurate 31-120K for the guy who asked.

[zymguy]

I've tried various NOE expander plugs with .314" bullets. The .313" plug is too big, .312" feels on the light side for neck tension when seating bullets, although I tried shooting them with no bullets pulling at all. I like the .315"x.311", and it seems that gives the best neck tension without sizing down soft bullets. .315" is the short section so you can start bullets, .311" is the section that actually holds the bullet, aka neck tension. Your hardened bullets will handle more neck tension than the 20-1 alloy I often play with. I cannot start .314" bullets with the .314"x.310" plug, I have to run them through a flare die separately, although it might be a good choice if sizing to .313".


I finally got back to shooting these bullets last weekend, I am narrowing in on the sweet spot. 7.5 grains Bluedot with CCI 500 primer seems to be the winner, although 12 grains H110 with CCI 550 primer is not bad. I want to try H110 with a standard primer next. I have also found 4 grains American Select to be very good, I need to sit down and do a formal group test with that. They are the Accurate 31-120K for the guy who asked.

Are you seating those in the groove or deep ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

All of those numbers are for seating in the crimp groove. 1.545" OAL.

[Walter Laich]

in first pic it looks like the empty ones have too much flair but with the bullet in it looks correct

My .32s look the same way

[frydaddy96]

zym, I've had a couple wrinkled cases but from other 'not paying attention' steps. One was to much lube when sizing and another was compressing BP a 'little' bit more with the boolit.

[zymguy]

zym, I've had a couple wrinkled cases but from other 'not paying attention' steps. One was to much lube when sizing and another was compressing BP a 'little' bit more with the boolit.

Me too ! My classic move is to thread the die the wrong direction. For example I’ll grab my 32 cal strait wall lee powder through flare die knowing it last flared 32sw long . Throw it in the press give it 8 full turns and https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190123/03985c194be9040105b51e66b7abbc21.jpg I think anyone who hasn’t EVER wrinkled a case hasn’t pulled the handle too many times


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[David2011]

Your flare is fabulous.

[cwlongshot]

I suggest you look into a Lyman M-Die. Surprised no one mentioned it yet.

It works the brass MUCH less and I find a improvement in accuracy. it opens the case mouth allowing the bullet to be started SQUARE into the case.

CW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkj2tl9uN68

[robg]

If the boolit will go into the case an eight on an inch or so its flared enough .

[TaylorS]

Looks about like my 44-40 brass last time I tried to make that work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marek313]

15 pieces of flair is the minimum, but look at Brian he has 37..... :D

Oh man its been a while since I've seen that movie. but but ....I .. I .. need .... my stapler.

Back to the OP. Lee universal expander with NOE plugs works better then powder through die or Lee universal expander alone. Here is how you determine if you need more or less flair. Not enough and you'll scrape PC or cut ring from the bullet and too much will give you hard time going in your seating die. Edges will start catching on the die. Again NOE plugs are great and def worth less then $10 they cost. Not only will they help you seat your bullets better but also they will prevent to some degree lead bullet swaging when seating.

[RED BEAR]

I hate those lee powder through dies . Allways weigh each charge and fill in loading block in seperate operation.

[waco]

15 pieces of flair is the minimum, but look at Brian he has 37..... :D

LOL!!! Great movie.

[waco]

A little chamfer on the inside of the case mouth goes a long way in preventing PC/lead scraping, removal. just saying...

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Your brass looks pretty clean. New brass sticks a bit in my Lee die, but after I shoot it and reload, without cleaning, the soot acts as a bit of a lubricant and things smooth out.

[Plate plinker]

I would try less flare. No sense in overworking the brass.