Casting for Glock17

[nueces5]

Hello everyone, the advice received to improve the accuracy with the rifle were very productive. I have to get beagleling the mold and touch up the sizer. Now I am venturing into the manufacture of boolits for my glock 17. I spent several days reading the stickys and several postings, in which I see that there are many common and unique problems to reload boolits in a glock gun.
Up to now I have been using boolits with a copper layer made by a manufacturer in my country, they have a diameter of .358, measured with my micrometer. I've gone through the barrel of my gun and it has thrown me .355-.355.5
For a matter of ease to get it, I'm going to buy a mold lee, since I have a distributor in Buenos Aires.
And there are two models that are the most recommended. One is the 356-120-TC and the other and I like it more is the 358-125-RF, although you have to sit well inside.
That is what I could read so far.
The question of lubrication remains, I would prefer to use LLA to make it more practical. But I was reading that the models with micro-bands of lubrication have not performed well.
More than anything is going to be used in IPSC, it is very little that I shoot out to compete and train.
If anyone has their experience to share, I will be very grateful to read it.
Hernan

https://i.ibb.co/BVxzY7R/9.jpg (https://ibb.co/HDsF9MQ)
https://i.ibb.co/LQPdF7m/9b.jpg (https://ibb.co/3fsm3Z2)

[Cherokee]

I have no Glock experience...XDM & Canik shooter. However, I have found the 356-120 Lee with lube grooves to be a great performer in my guns. I've shot about 50k rounds loaded with it without any problems and accuracy is better than I can hold. I also have the 358-125RF but I prefer the 120TC, using the 125RF in 38's. Hopefully Glock shooters will reply.

[Chainsaw.]

Glock 19 shooter here. I tried and tried to get the 125 round nose lee bullet to work correctly but never did get it to where I liked. That bullet has to be seated so deep in the case its silly. I then tried the 125 grain truncated cone tumble lubed bullet, this one worked much better in my glock, and was more accurate. I am powder coating all my bullets so no advise on lube.

In my Wifes glock 27, 40 cal I am running the lee 40 cal, traditional lube groove (one big groove) and it is a fantastic performer. Also powder coated.

[sigep1764]

Its been my experience the tuncated cone or TC shaped boolits work better in my Glock pistols. My first mold was a 356 120TC but that one dropped 355 with straight wheel weight alloy. I now have the 358 120B mold from Accurate. Its a clone of the Lyman 356402 mold and I couldn't be happier with it.

[fralic76]

I load 120, 125 gr boolits for my glock 17 gen 4. I powder coat then size.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[nueces5]

I have no Glock experience...XDM & Canik shooter. However, I have found the 356-120 Lee with lube grooves to be a great performer in my guns. I've shot about 50k rounds loaded with it without any problems and accuracy is better than I can hold. I also have the 358-125RF but I prefer the 120TC, using the 125RF in 38's. Hopefully Glock shooters will reply.
1 vote to 120! thanks!


Glock 19 shooter here. I tried and tried to get the 125 round nose lee bullet to work correctly but never did get it to where I liked. That bullet has to be seated so deep in the case its silly. I then tried the 125 grain truncated cone tumble lubed bullet, this one worked much better in my glock, and was more accurate. I am powder coating all my bullets so no advise on lube.

In my Wifes glock 27, 40 cal I am running the lee 40 cal, traditional lube groove (one big groove) and it is a fantastic performer. Also powder coated.
Thanks!


Its been my experience the tuncated cone or TC shaped boolits work better in my Glock pistols. My first mold was a 356 120TC but that one dropped 355 with straight wheel weight alloy. I now have the 358 120B mold from Accurate. Its a clone of the Lyman 356402 mold and I couldn't be happier with it.


I load 120, 125 gr boolits for my glock 17 gen 4. I powder coat then size.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
Thanks! 355! very low!

[Papercidal]

My Glock's all ran pretty well with the Lee 125 grain truncated cone design sized to .3575 I have never used traditional lube or Alox as hi tec or powder coating is so easy and so much less smoky which can be important in action shooting.

[nueces5]

My Glock's all ran pretty well with the Lee 125 grain truncated cone design sized to .3575 I have never used traditional lube or Alox as hi tec or powder coating is so easy and so much less smoky which can be important in action shooting.

you mean this boolit?
https://leeprecision.com/6-cav-358-125-rf.html

[Tom W.]

https://leeprecision.com/mold-6-cav-356-120-tc.html

That works for all of my 9mm pistols, past and current. I do have to size it to .357 for the CZ, but the Ruger and both Glocks that I had, the 17 & 19 Gen 4's would gobble them up without hesitation.

[Clouds]

I use the 4 cavity version of the Lyman 147 (356637) for my Glock 17 without issues.

[Papercidal]

you mean this boolit?
https://leeprecision.com/6-cav-358-125-rf.html

That one looks like it could be a great choice but this is the one I used.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-6-cav-tl356-124-tc.html

[244]

Glocks do not have a fully supported chamber. If you load hot/fast rounds they can bulge/blow out (in a half moon shape) just forward of the extractor groove on the bottom of the case. This area is where the feed ramp is and not fully supporting the chamber. Be careful and check your cases for the bulge!

[Taterhead]

244, that is true of some Glocks but the 17 has relatively good case support. But that is good advice for any auto-loader.

For Glocks, I have a strong preference for powder coating. Very good accuracy vs copper plated.

[kevin c]

My USPSA (US version of IPSC) factory barreled 34's get a steady diet of 147 grain HiTek coated casts sized to .357. They shoot well. I'd tried a 124 gr SWC that also shot just fine, but I prefer the heavier slug.

Older generation 40 S&W Glocks were the worst offenders for guppy bellied brass. I understand the newer barrels have much less of the problem, and have never seen it in my gen 2 and gen 3 nines. That goes for factory ammo as well as my USPSA minor power factor loads.

[Lloyd Smale]

Every gun is different and to say which bullet would shoot best would be just a poor guess. Ill say this though. the rcbs 121 round nose has been probably the most accurate across the board bullet in all of my 9s. Its only disadvantage is your stuck with a 2 cav mold. As to lubing them id skip the allox. Especially for a comp gun. Its makes your gun dirty in short order. Much more so then conventional lubes do. If it were me id buy myself a mold a lee bullet sizing die in the size you want and a lb of PC paint. Pc is easy and its as clean to shoot as a jacketed bullet.

[nueces5]

thanks for all the answers, it is very clear to me that I have to think about coated, to avoid the smoke, that harms me in ipsc
On the other hand, I think I'm going to lean over the mold Lee 356-120 TC, make the powder coating and then resize to 357.
Sounds like a good idea?

[Dusty Bannister]

Not a thing wrong with learning to use the Lee 356-120-TC with conventional lube, and then add to the skill with the powder coating. Dusty

[Taterhead]

Neuces5, that sounds like a good plan. I like the 120 TC better than the 125 2R profile. Powder coating is simple and effective. No smoke or mess. I see no reason to not go straight to PC for your volume 9mm loads.

[Walks]

I have a very early GLOCK 23. It's brass shows the GLOCK Smile with the Factory bbl. I bought a Wolfe replacement bbl as soon as they became available. Big difference. Tighter chamber, much more support, no more GLOCK Smile. Even bought a 9mm conversion bbl, no GLOCK Smile either.

I still put my 40S&W brass through a REDDING "size through die", 9mm doesn't seem to need it.

I favor the LYMAN/IDEAL #356402 TC sized at .356, WLL 50/50. I'm a bit different then most.

I've tried 9mm bullets out of most molds out there, always come back to #356402.

I've only found one TL Bullet that ever worked for me. An N.O.E. TL-432-243-RF.

[Sig556r]

G34/G17/G19 shooter here, including 9mm converted G22 & poly80 builds...all with aftermarket barrels with fully supported chambers so I can shoot PC CBs & w/o the dreaded brass bulge.
120TC shoots clean holes on paper compared to RNs. However, be mindful of the Lee lube groove when seating with enough crimp to avoid losing tension. Polished ramps will eat those TCs better if your barrel has tight dims.
I personally prefer to shoot heavier 147RFNs (or 158s suppressed).

[nueces5]

thanks to all, I would love to be able to access other brands, such as NOE or IDEAL, but in Argentina we only have one distributor from Lee. And if I do not want to complicate my life with imports, international shipping and bureaucratic customs, I prefer to buy Lee
On the other hand I was already finding out that near my house, there is a powder paint factory for the PC, so I start to find out which is the best product I can buy.

[Elkins45]

I had terrible results with the Lee tumble lube TC bullet until I started dropping them directly from the mold into a bucket of water to harden them. That made all the difference for me. I started a thread about it here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?330654-Update-worst-cast-bullet-performance-ever

My experience with shooting lead in polygonal rifled barrels is that harder bullets are needed to perform well.

[fredj338]

The primary issue with Glocks & lead bullets is proper fit. IMO, a 0.356" bullet will give accuracy & leading issues most of the time, regardless of alloy or lube. I run all my 9mm, regardless of gun, @ 0.357" dia. They shoot fine lubed with just about anything, or coated, which is my preferred method today. Less smoke & crud in the gun, slightly better accuracy. FWIW, coated, I can shoot range scrap bullets in all my GLocks.

[nueces5]

https://i.ibb.co/bmpB7Nx/Whats-App-Image-2019-01-17-at-10-49-20.jpg (https://ibb.co/zxKRNP1)
8-)8-)8-)

[sigep1764]

Fire it up and tell us what she drops at!

[nueces5]

bad bad bad
I did some tests with lead pipe and threw 353-354
I'm going to have to do them again in time and see what comes out

[sigep1764]

Lead pipe is pretty close to pure lead. Add some tin and that should help fill out. Should drop bigger. A good somewhat expensive source of tin is solder. If you have access to wheel weights, you'd be better served as well.

[nueces5]

Thanks !

[fredj338]

As sige notes, lead pipe is about pure lead, will cast smaller, not even really suitable for 9mm pressures. Lee molds can be all over the place on size so you may have to beagle it to get it to 0.357", my preferred size for any 9mm.

[nueces5]

yes, now I fall into my mistake, I did it in a hurry to try the mold, I did not even have time to heat it well
this weekend I do it better

[Taterhead]

A little tin, a hotter mold and powder coating should get the diameter needed.

[nueces5]

Hello everyone, I made an alloy with 2 parts of lead pipe, one of linotype and I added a little tin. Flux and boolits came out in 356, not so perfect, by parts in 355.5 and in another part 357. But I think it's quite normal.
The Lee furnace was at 6-7 and at one point they began to appear opaque, as if they were aluminum and not lead. I think this is because it was very hot. I lowered the temperature to 3 for a moment while leaving the mold open, after a while they returned to their normal color. I leave a photo where you can see the opaque boolits in the upper left
I still did not choose the size of sizer, I'm going to do lubrication with LLA and with simple lube and see how they work. Probably in the next few weeks I'll start learning how to make powder coating and I'll buy a 357 sizer. But that's going to be another story ...
Thank you very much to all those who have written to me giving me their advice, this is a great forum.

https://ibb.co/WD8DnDm

[randyrat]

The lead pot temp is not as important as the temp of your mold..I can see your bullets started out silvery and then frosty..That is your mold getting hotter. Your bullets will very in size until the mold is up to temp..I throw the bullets back into the pot until they are slightly frosty, then race to the finish line..Throw your sprue nuggets back in before you have too big a pile..Frosty is not a bad thing, just keep things consistent

Stop and scrape the sides and bottom with a DRY wooded stick, scoop it out, do this fast and get back to making bullets and it will keep your pot cleaner. Do this with lead in your mold, fast so your mold doesn't cool too much.

This will keep things like bullet diameter consistent

[MOA]

I have a very early GLOCK 23. It's brass shows the GLOCK Smile with the Factory bbl. I bought a Wolfe replacement bbl as soon as they became available. Big difference. Tighter chamber, much more support, no more GLOCK Smile. Even bought a 9mm conversion bbl, no GLOCK Smile either.

I still put my 40S&W brass through a REDDING "size through die", 9mm doesn't seem to need it.

I favor the LYMAN/IDEAL #356402 TC sized at .356, WLL 50/50. I'm a bit different then most.

I've tried 9mm bullets out of most molds out there, always come back to #356402.

I've only found one TL Bullet that ever worked for me. An N.O.E. TL-432-243-RF.


Yes sir, that's just what I did in 2010 or 11, got two Wolf barrels for my 19's. The factory bbls have never seen cast. I've been running these RCBS 115 RN. So far my Gen 2 likes them ok.
https://i.postimg.cc/mDrXJCJ7/20150117-140926.jpg (https://postimg.cc/67DfG29Q)

[P Flados]

Some use tumble lube Ok for the 9mm, but most use something else.

Good luck with the 9mm. Many folks get good performance in a 9mm without a lot of effort.

Not me.

I actually did not get Ok performance with anything (including the Lee 120) and powder coat until I got boolit diameter up to 0.3575" and started using an oversize expander plug. I also sort brass and do bullet seating and flare removal as separate steps. Now I can load target or full power with zero leading.

Trying tumble lube it is a good idea, but watch for leading. Your chances for acceptable performance will probably be better with slower powders and with loads that are just enough for slide hold back on any empty magazine. Given how your boolits are dropping, I would try un-sized first. Harder lead also helps (I think the hard lead helps avoid having boolits sized down too much by the case).

I use tumble lube for lots of guns but could not get leading free performance from a Glock 9mm with either the factory or an aftermarket barrel.

[Moonie]

That is a great mold, I have one in every caliber they make it. Runs great in everything I've tried them in. 120gr 9mm, 175gr .401 and the 235gr .452.

[nueces5]

Hello to all, unfortunately on Friday a woman looking at her phone while driving left me the car in the repair shop at least three weeks.
Therefore I do not have to go to shoot the rifle ammunition that I had reloaded ..
So I continued with the preparation of ammo for the G17. I did simple lube and I made a dummy
I went down the boolit in her case until I could get her into the glock barrel chamber, and turn it without any effort.

https://i.ibb.co/kG1CHJg/Whats-App-Image-2019-01-23-at-19-06-30.jpg (https://ibb.co/YNZsRX7)

27,4 mm= 1,078 in

then I disarmed it or measured it.
Measured at the base (which is the part that remained inside the case) .353 in

https://i.ibb.co/HFnZxXC/Whats-App-Image-2019-01-23-at-19-06-22.jpg (https://ibb.co/qyk6WxC)

And ahead of the lube groove .356 in

https://i.ibb.co/gr0DPy2/Whats-App-Image-2019-01-23-at-19-06-15.jpg (https://ibb.co/RgXCB2F)

This is good?
Thank you

[Dusty Bannister]

This is not good. The over all length of the cartridge is good. The crimp is excessive. You may prepare another dummy round. Loosen the lock ring on the bullet seating stem, and loosen the lock ring on the crimp die body. Just loose enough so that you can turn the die and feel some friction on the lock ring. Turn the crimp die body counter-clockwise 2 complete turns so that it will not apply any crimp on the dummy cartridge case. Insert a prepared unprimed case in the shell holder and lower the handle to partly seat the bullet. Check for the OAL. Repeat as you turn the seating stem to seat the bullet deeper into the case. Once the cartridge OAL has been reached, turn the seating stem several turns out of the die body as you do not want it to touch the nose of the bullet during the next step. Now you can turn the crimp die body into the press to begin to apply the crimp. Make small adjustments because these coarse threads make the progress quickly. As you see the flare is being reduced, test the bullet for fit in the barrel chamber (plunk test) as you did before. You might have to repeat making the dummy round if you adjust too much crimp.

You probably have already discovered that if the lock rings are too loose as you adjust the dies, when you tighten them, they move the die in or out from the correct position. Just watch for that and take whatever action is necessary to avoid that.

Once the crimp has been adjusted to your satisfaction and the cartridge passes the plunk test, lower the handle on the press, turn the seating stem down into the die until it contacts the nose of the bullet and tighten the lock ring carefully to maintain the adjustments. May as well make one more to be sure the adjustments have not changed. Good shooting.

Sorry to hear about the car accident. We have a few inches of snow on the ground here and an abundance of idiots that drive carelessly. Dusty

[nueces5]

I use the third die Lee as seater, and Lee's crimp factory as a crimp, I keep moving nuts then
thanks

[Dusty Bannister]

Some have had trouble with adjusting the crimp with the Factory Crimp Die. I do not have that so can not help with that adjustment. Leave the Seating die as it is for now. Dusty

[MOA]

I use the FCD on my 9mm also, but I have my seater set so all it does it seat. No crimping. I mic the brass before seating boolit, I mic the case after seating boolit and I mic the case after crimping. I only do this for the first few cases to make sure the measurments are where I want them and that the dies are tight and no movement will likely occur later as I proceed to load. I only want to see a small reduction in case diameter after crimping due to this cartridge head spaces on the case mouth. I also use a number of single stage presses set up so they each perform one stage in the process. I have a LNL AP but its always set up for rifle calibers, I really need to find a used Lyman Spartan-T for my handgun ammo loading.

[fredj338]

Your bullets are being sized down. Either the expander is too small or the LFCD is doing it. A bullet base that is 0.353" is not going to shoot well & likely lead imo. So go to a larger expander &/or get rid of the LFCD.

[nueces5]

I took a while today to play with the dies, and I made a dummy that came out at .355 and .356
considering that it was originally 356 I think it's worth it to put together a couple of rounds and try them

[P Flados]

I think you are saying that your brass is only sizing the bullets down from 0.356 to 0.355 for the portion that goes in the case.

If so you are "not bad" but not great.

If they lead, the easiest / most likely next thing to try would be to powder coat (with no sizing). The hope will be that the thickness of the coating will get the bullet up to .356 after being sized down by the case.

An alternate choice would be to get a bigger expander. At your location, I am not sure of your options for this approach.

Note that there is a good chance you will be able to skip the sizing step.

[nueces5]

I think you are saying that your brass is only sizing the bullets down from 0.356 to 0.355 for the portion that goes in the case.

If so you are "not bad" but not great.

If they lead, the easiest / most likely next thing to try would be to powder coat (with no sizing). The hope will be that the thickness of the coating will get the bullet up to .356 after being sized down by the case.

An alternate choice would be to get a bigger expander. At your location, I am not sure of your options for this approach.

Note that there is a good chance you will be able to skip the sizing step.

You mean to make flares bigger?
I use a 550 dillon, I think it could expand more, lowering the second die a bit, but without doubt the boolit will "fall" into the case when I put it on the seater.
I can try and see what comes out

[Tom W.]

As I just cast some this morning i went back out a few minutes ago after they are good and cold and put the mic on them. They averaged .358 from my mold, but it's a six cavity Lee. You may want to look at the sticky about "Leementing" and see if that may help.
Or "beagleing" . One of them helps make the boolits a tad bigger.....

[gloob]

You mean to make flares bigger?
Hi, Nueces.

It's not the case mouth flare that will help. It's the diameter of the expander plug, itself. Most reloading dies for 9mm come with a 0.353" expander plug. The brass in the seating area of 9x19 cases tends to be very thick when compared to 45ACP and revolver cases, and unless you use a really hard alloy, the base of the bullets gets squashed. NOE sells expander plugs from 356-358 thousandths in OD. Presumably, they are intended for 38/357, but they are really good for reloading cast bullets in 9mm. If you happen to use Lee dies, you can also buy a 9mm makarov expander plug, which happens to measure about 0.356", IIRC. There's a sticky on the forum about it; see the "reloading" section, title "38/357 expander mod."

My results with 9mm (and 40SW) mirrors that of P Flados. A larger expander is sliced bread for these pistol calibers.

It's not enough for just the front of the bullet to be larger than the bore. The base must be larger, because that's the part that is exposed to high pressure to seal down the entire length of the barrel, despite minor variations. If the base is too small, the pressure will force its way past the front of the bullet, and then hot gas will melt the bullet. So if the bullet doesn't completely seal, then you will foul a Glock barrel really quickly unless you use powder coat or copper plated/jacketed bullets. You'll have big smears and chunks of lead in there after the first shot.

FWIW, Glock factory barrels are my favorite way to shoot naked cast bullets, either factory wax lube and/or homespun with Alox. I honestly get no fouling after sorting out the case/expander issue... After one good cleaning and a seasoning of lube, that's it. I don't get quite that result with any of my button cut rifled barrels/firearms unless I use gas checks or PC or copper jacketed bullets. With the Glock barrels, I don't even have to ever clean the bores. It's like magic.

[nueces5]

Well, I think I have to follow another course because the accuracy with the gun is insufficient. As he fired each time his accuracy was worse.
The next step will be to beagleling the mold to increase its size.

[P Flados]

Nuecas5,

Sounds like you are headed down the path than many have been forced to travel before you.

Keep at it and do not give up.

[Buck Butcher]

nueces5, if you’re anything like me you will revisit this project. So I’d like to offer what I know to help.

1. Adjust your resizing die where the primer is not coming out of the case, then tighten it down where it just barely pops the primer out. This keeps from sizing the case all the way to the base, and could in turn keep from swaging down the base under the .356 you start with.

2. Sort the brass by thickness, only using the thinnest for cast reloads.

3. Try as best you can to find a 38 s&w (not special) expander spud if you have Lee dies. If not, buy a 38 s&w lee die. If you already own a Lee powder through die it’s an inexpensive investment. Contact lee precision directly if you need to.

I’ve had to do all three of these steps to keep from swaging lead in the 9mm. Mine were large barrels with tighter chambers making for a challenge to say the least. Honestly leading didn’t completely go away until I started powder coating.

Hope this is of some use,

Mark

[nueces5]

They are all very kind giving me tips and tricks. I tell you that today I went to the range to shoot the boolits with the mold widened by beageling. The leading improved a lot, I only found a bit at the beginning of the barrel and the groups, although they were not Olympiads, at least I could cover them with the palm of my hand at 15 meters.
Next tests; lower the load of W231 to 4 grains, improve the crimp so that it does not compress the base of the boolit, and lower the BHN from 16 to 13.
Hernan

[nueces5]

I was reading carefully his words Gloob, the google translator sometimes is not very precise.
I'm going to get a 38/357 expander and put it on.
I am very happy to have this forum to consult

[P Flados]

When I had improved my situation to be "a little leading", the leading was a thin film instead of the buildup.

Your bullets leaving the case are probably 0.0005" too small. You can safely reducing you crimp to "bell removal only" as long as you bullets take a reasonable (not light) effort to seat. This and/or getting a bigger expander are probably good things to try.

[nueces5]

I already talked to Dillon, there's no chance of a bigger expander. Mr Bullet feeder answered me, we only need to agree on the purchase of the expander. And next week I get PC paint ...
I'm on my way, now to wait for better results

[P Flados]

Going with PC may get you there with your existing hardware. However, having found a potential source for a better expander is also a good thing.

[gloob]

I already talked to Dillon, there's no chance of a bigger expander.
Too bad. Does your press take special Dillon-only dies?
I swear the expander is the root of 99% of cast 9mm problems. There's so much myth... "need harder alloy because of the twist rate".... "Glocks can't shoot cast"... and I tell you, all my Glocks shoot cast bullets, perfectly. No smoke, no fouling, perfect accuracy. After thousands of rounds I can push a dry patch down the bore, once, and see a perfectly clean bore.

I went full circle on this, myself. I started out following the more common advice of the times. My cast bullets were only good for short range practice, and I used to keep Chore Boys in business. I dabbled in PC, even. But now, I shoot cast bullets accurately out to infinity, and I haven't had a Chore Boy in my cleaning kit for over 6 years.

I use an NOE 358 expander for 9mm. I made my own custom expander for 40/10mm which is 401. And I use an NOE 452 expander for 45ACP. This is the diameter of the expander part that goes all the way down to where the base of the bullet sits. The flare on the mouth is 3-4 thousandths larger than that.

The 45ACP expander is the only one that wasn't really necessary for me. My sizing die is pretty loose in that caliber, and the brass is really thin, anyway. But I bought and use the expander for my own peace of mind.

I absolutely do not recommend this in an autoloader, but I do not change these expanders out, even when loading jacketed bullets. They have (so far) not given me any problems with neck tension due to being oversize. The 9mm is the most oversized of my expanders, and I use it for both 356 cast and 358 cast, in addition to 355 jacketed. I measured OAL of the cartridges after multiple chamberings and did the nose press tests and was very careful (at first). I am probably just dumb and lucky, though.

My 40SW Glock is my most finicky to reload cast. The chamber is so tight that some headstamps are too thick at the case mouth. After expanding and seating the 401 cast bullet, the resulting cartridge won't fit in the chamber with the thicker brass unless I put a bit of taper crimp on the mouth. And there's apparently no room in there for the taper crimp to open back up, because I get inaccuracy and fouling. So I have to sort out certain headstamps. With all my Glocks, I use essentially no taper crimp. My expanders do a minimal step flare that isn't even visible. No shaving, either.

[nueces5]

Gloob,
It's 550, use standart dies. Yesterday from Dillon they swore to me that the expander was not the problem in any way! LOL.
I have tried a dillon expander of 38, but it is still very small, it does not reach .357.
I'm still waiting for Rick to answer and while I'm waiting I'll start with PC.
Yesterday I did another test: I took a bullet with copper coating, which was the one I bought before I started casting and they worked very well on my gun.
I made a dummy with it and I measured it. I remain in 354-355. They are round nose. Maybe this type of tip is better suited to shoot with Glock if the bottom is smaller, so I'll try with PC and see as follows

[sigep1764]

Hey Nueces,
If Rick doesn't answer you, contact Lathesmith on this forum. He made a 9mm expander funnel for my Dillon press and it works great.

[nueces5]

Thanks Sigep!

[gloob]

Dunno what you can get where you live.

If you can get Lee stuff, the 9mm makarov expander is probably one of the better ones for 9mm cast. I think you need the 9mm parabellum die body and the 9mm mak plug. Perfect diameter, but it's just a tad short. It worked wonders for me until I found the NOE.

If you can get the Lyman stuff, their expanders are a little too small, still. But you can buy a larger size expander and turn it down yourself! Their expander plugs screw into the die body, and the threads are small enough to chuck in a regular 3/8" drill. Using a high speed grinder and cutoff discs, you can grind the spinning plug to w/e dimensions you want. Just check with calipers and finish with sanding blocks when you get to within a thousandth. It's really easy to do (use eye protection!) and it doesn't have to be perfect.

I made my custom 40SW expander by using a 404 sized Lyman expander for a rifle caliber. I turned the end down to 401, almost the depth of where the bullet seats, and I left the 404 as the mouth flare.

[nueces5]

the problem is that I use a dillon 550, and I need a powder funnel
If I used a turret type press it would be easier to solve.
I'm going to try PC and see where the boolits go :)

[sigep1764]

Nueces, I think Gloob was suggesting a good alternative if you have a cheap single stage press to go along with your 550 if you cannot get the funnel you need. You can take the decapping/sizing die out of the 550 and put it on the single stage press and do all your decapping/sizing on that press. In the first station on the 550, you can put in a Lee expander for 9mm Makarov which would expand your brass mouth enough to not squeeze the boolit too small. The second station would basically just drop powder with the standard powder funnel in an already expanded brass case. It is a work around option if you cannot get the proper funnel.

[nueces5]

Thanks Sigep, the truth is that with the language jump I miss some things.
Today I sent a PM Lathesmith, so I hope I can buy the right expander.
Hernan

[sigep1764]

If he needs a funnel to copy, let me know and I will send him mine.

[P Flados]

FYI,

I did all of the other stuff, but feel that the oversize 9mm expander was the biggest single improvement that finally cured the primary problem. It took me several tries, but I found that going all the way to 0.358" was needed to get it to work.

It is a shame that the reloading equipment makers only seem to understand "normal" reloading. For handguns, the standard rules of thumb mostly come from reloading jacketed and cast in thin wall cases or jacket bullets only in the 9mm and smaller autos.

I am recommending that we do something about this. For example, I just sent a message to Dillon explaining the need for an oversized 9mm expander. If multiple bullet casters bombard the equipment makers with info, at least they will understand the need. The good ones will probably choose to do something about it.

[nueces5]

Mail storm

[gloob]

I think manufacturers have a liability issue. They will surely tend to make their stuff on the conservative side. Even my NOE plug is perfect only because 357 exists. And if you have a setback, you can't complain if you're using the "wrong" expander for the caliber.

Also, I think there has traditionally been some stubbornness in the community, itself. I remember when I was still excited about my "discovery." I tried to spread the gospel, but a lot of respected reloaders called it horse manure. They had long ago found that higher tin percentage and/or water-dropping/hardening improved* their cast 9mm endeavors, and they incorrectly attributed this to the twist rate rather than case-swaging. Also, at that time, PC was all the rage. So for every post I made about this expander thing, there would be 20 people saying that PC was the "real" solution.

There's also some plain crazy talk. Some people have claimed that Glock bores are incompatible. Even if the bore looks clean, they claim there's an invisible microscopic build-up of lead fouling that will undoubtedly at some point make the gun spontaneously explode. If they seen what my bore used to look like while shooting cast bullets, they would know a Glock bore can handle about a million times more lead fouling than that! Even before I had ever touched or had seen a bare cast bullet in my life and before I started reloading, I have had some gross, visible buildup of copper and lead fouling in my 45ACP Glock bore that you could see and scrape at... from shooting factory ammo with copper "jacketed" bullets that turned out to be copper plated/washed. This was hard fouling that took some creative problem-solving to remove.

*Harder bullets can reduce or eliminate case-swaging. But they are more expensive. And they tend to leave fouling, sometimes called antimony wash. If you want to shoot cast bullets in 9mm with no fouling, a softer bullet is the best bet. And I put all my money on a Glock bore vs any cut-rifled bore!


Added: just came across this in another thread. This illustrates the other extreme when it comes to opinions on expander size (the context was for jacketed bullets... I hope). I think hell might freeze over before manufacturers of reloading equipment would start catering to these crazy new-age cast bullet reloaders like P Flados and me. Well, not exactly new age... Every now and again, some old-timer comes along and states the things Flados and I do are old hat and known since 1960. I guess it's just something that has never been fully accepted or reached a unified consensus due to concerns over safety/setback.



What I found out many years ago was that the re-expanding plug diameters varied greatly between the many different brands of dies of the same caliber. So, I modified all my dies so that the expanding plug diameter slipped into a sized case without resistance and only allowed the case-mouth to be flaired slightly to ease bullet insertion. The bullet then re-expanded the case, for the maximum case grip on the bullet, and followed that with a case mouth crimp.

[nueces5]

All right. I was trying some tests, taking the advice I was receiving. I put the sizing die on my single station press. In the first station of the dillon I put an expander of 38/357 and then I made my longest bullet.
First station: Sizing
Second station (first in the dillon 550): expand and flare
Third station (second in D.550): It was already expanded so he just put powder on it.
Fourth station (Third of the Dillon): Seater
Fifth station (Fourth in the Dillon): Factory crimp.

Result: .3535 (put here the curse you use)

I repeat the whole process just by removing the Factory crimp and magically it became light. The dummies started coming out at 356. Plunk test satisfactory.
I'm in love like a teen.
Tomorrow I do the tests

[Buck Butcher]

Nueces5, I forgot to mention the factory crimp! I knocked out the carbide sizing ring of mine. It cannot swage the bollit down now. I still use it in the last station, just without the carbide ring.

[nueces5]

Nueces5, I forgot to mention the factory crimp! I knocked out the carbide sizing ring of mine. It cannot swage the bollit down now. I still use it in the last station, just without the carbide ring.

I took it out
Question: what function does it do without the carbide ring?

[sigep1764]

Takes the bell off the case created with your expanding die in station 1. This should allow the assembled cartridge to chamber without issue.

The carbide ring can in some instances squeeze the loaded boolit down to a smaller diameter. Some folks have issues with it, others do not.

[P Flados]

In past posts, I have tried to make it clear that after seating the bullet, I do a separate final step to "remove the flare".

I never use the word "crimp" unless I am actually reducing the diameter at the case mouth to something smaller than lower down.

With my bullets, tools and methods, I do not need any "crimp" to keep 9 mm bullets secure.

Half way through my struggles with the 9mm, I became convinced that something was reducing the size of my bullets during the loading process. I did every thing I could to "fix" things that might be the cause.

It sounds like Nueces5 is on track. He understands the problem. He is doing the right things to find the loading steps that are the cause of the problem.

[nueces5]

Hello everyone, today I shot the new boolits and I have to say that they have taken me the right way.
Groups of shots from 4 Inch to 17 meters. It's more than I can ask for. Only a little leading, which I hope with the PC is eliminated.
Thanks to everyone, especially Dusty for the patience and the desire to share knowledge.

[Buck Butcher]

Glad to hear it, feels great to get it right!

Good job,
Mark

[sigep1764]

Good job buddy!

[gloob]

Yes, good job. It's good to hear things are working out.

I got my Glock shooting really well with 356 cast. But to get that last bit of perfection, I load 358. Since discovering MBC, I don't cast for handguns much anymore, if at all. My 9mm Glocks have been eating MBC Cowboy #2, .358" 125 grain flat nose for the last several years. My Glocks will eat them at 1.116", but one of my friend's (the 5" barrel one, the 34?) needs them a bit shorter. The crimp groove on this bullet is completely exposed at this OAL. I haven't cleaned my 9mm Glock bores since I developed this load. Been over a thousand rounds, and all I do it run a patch after each outing to make sure I haven't screwed anything up.

[nueces5]

Dillon:
"We load lots of the polymer coated lead bullets and don’t have any shaving issues at all. We flare the case mouth more than we do for jacketed bullets. We suggest flaring at least .020 inch larger than a sized, unflared case mouth measures.



Thank you!"

Lap the mould and PC, is what I'm going to do, thanks

[Ginnedup]

Glocks do not have a fully supported chamber. If you load hot/fast rounds they can bulge/blow out (in a half moon shape) just forward of the extractor groove on the bottom of the case. This area is where the feed ramp is and not fully supporting the chamber. Be careful and check your cases for the bulge!
What is the difference between factory ammo that is fired from an unsupported chamber or a handload of same dimensions/ boolit weight? Hand loaded ammunition is virtually the same as factory ammo except for cost if assembled correctly.

[P Flados]

Some guns have a small feed ramp at the back of the chamber.

For any gun with a locked breach, I have a hard time seeing normal loads being a problem as long as the depth of the removed metal for the feed ramp is no more than just longer than the length of the primer. This "unsupported region" of a 9mm case never expands unless there is a gross overload. Note that this region is down so low that it does not get touched by the sizing die. If this region was expanding with normal loads, "normal" reloading would not address this expansion and primer pockets would get oversized fast.

If the feed ramp region extends much further into the chamber, you can have some actual "unsupported" case wall. I have heard of this in other caliber handguns, but do not think it is true for most 9mm handguns. I have picked fired 9mm brass that had the "guppy belly" bulge. I assumed it was from a loose chambered and/or blowback carbine.

If anyone has loads that routinely loosen the primer pockets on a 9mm, they are asking for a heap of trouble anyway.

[gloob]

We suggest flaring at least .020 inch larger than a sized, unflared case mouth measures.
Thanks for sharing this comedic gold. Well, it might be in the right ball park, but it's not a particularly useful way to measure.... from the outside, which is not the important part. Doesn't account for the thickness of the brass. And it relies on the specific size die in question, which can vary by more than a few thousandths die to die. And no one sells expander plugs by the OD of the brass after expanding.

For reference, I measured the mouth of one of my sized cases at average of 0.3725" OD. And after flaring with a step of 362 on my expander, the OD is 0.3785. That's only 6 thousandths, not twenty. A bell flare might have to be a bit bigger, perhaps. If you extrapolate from my measurements, the 358 portion of the expander is ultimately moving the brass roughly 2 thousandths.* So imagine what the standard 353 expander plug does to the case, other than flaring the mouth?

*Reading this back, I had to go back and try this. I sized another case, and it came out to the same 0.3725". After expanding short of the step flare, the case mouth measured 0.3765. So I measure a change of ~4 thousandths. The brass gets thicker, the deeper you go, of course. But take .358" minus 4 thous... And you still have to subtract another thousandth to get the diameter of the standard 9mm expander.

[Ginnedup]

Some guns have a small feed ramp at the back of the chamber.

For any gun with a locked breach, I have a hard time seeing normal loads being a problem as long as the depth of the removed metal for the feed ramp is no more than just longer than the length of the primer. This "unsupported region" of a 9mm case never expands unless there is a gross overload. Note that this region is down so low that it does not get touched by the sizing die. If this region was expanding with normal loads, "normal" reloading would not address this expansion and primer pockets would get oversized fast.

If the feed ramp region extends much further into the chamber, you can have some actual "unsupported" case wall. I have heard of this in other caliber handguns, but do not think it is true for most 9mm handguns. I have picked fired 9mm brass that had the "guppy belly" bulge. I assumed it was from a loose chambered and/or blowback carbine.

If anyone has loads that routinely loosen the primer pockets on a 9mm, they are asking for a heap of trouble anyway.

Me & my son reload for 40 and 9mm, my son has a glock in 40, I have a 40 Shield, in 9mm I have a S&W mod. 39-2 and a Sig P-6 my son has a P-6 as well.so far no bulge or primer pocket issues. Since we are punching paper and plinking we don’t load it “hot”. Far as resizing brass goes we use a Go gage and calipers in any caliber we use , I cast lead rn TL .125s for the 9’s and plated 155gr for the 40’s. Not sure if I can mention brand names of dies but they come in a red plastic box.
I’ve been reloading almost 40 years. This unsupported case buisiness is new to me.
As an aside, any new pistol or revolver state in the manual “to only use factory ammunition “ or in some cases it could void their warranty.

[John Van Gelder]

Lots of good information here about shooting cast bullets in the Glock. I do not have a Glock, but have shot a lot of the Lee 120 TC bullet in my other 9s, a good bullet that pretty much will feed reliably in anything. My mold with hard alloy is closer to 124 gr.