Lee Dippers - Pistol increments

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I am going to see if Lee can produce a set of pistol-increment dippers. And if they can't maybe someone else?

I have a set of Lee's yellow powder dippers which I find useful. But when I reload for 9mm or .38 spl I find that the increments at the lower end are insufficient to get good performance. Lee currently offers their set of 15 dippers for $10 in some places.

If they could make them in 0.05cc increments from 0.30cc to 1.00 cc that would make for an even 15 dippers so the cost should be close to $10.

However, if we went with a 15-dipper set in that range we would be duplicating a few already existing dippers that come in the other set (the 0.30, 0.50, & 1.00cc dippers). So would it make sense to omit those from the 15 and go with some others such as 1.10, 1.2, 1.4? Or maybe 0.20, 0.25cc?

I realize that once you get up to 1.2cc you can achieve similar volumes by double dipping with combinations of dippers. But it is just so much faster, nicer, and more consistent to use just one dipper.

Thoughts?

[Outpost75]

For small charges it is easier to make your own, soldering a .22 LR case to a bent wire and dressing with file to exact charge. I forget who posted this graph on cutting down .22 LR fired cases for dip measures, I am reposting it here, so I appologize in advance to its original poster that I am unable to give him credit where due.

This is very useful info to have:

233557

Click on graph to view full size. For those needing instant gratification a full-length .22 LR case meters 2.8 grains of Bullseye
for 2 grains of Bullseye cut to 0.4"
for 1.5 grains of Bullseye cut to 0.33"
for 1.3 grains of Bullseye cut to 0.25"
for 1 grain of Bullseye cut to 0.2"

Additional dip measures:

.25 ACP case measures 3.5 grains of Bullseye
.32 ACP case measures 6 grains of Bullseye
.380 ACP case measures 7 grains of Bullseye
9mm case measures 8 grains of Bullseye

The above charges are only approximate and must be verified with a scale!

Correct method to use a dip measure is to place a small amount of powder in a container similar to a shot glass, then to lower the dip measure into the powder, letting the powder flow in of it own weight only. Raise up the dipper, then strike the powder off level using a pen knife or card. Confirm charge weight by dipping TEN charges onto your scale pan, then moving the decimal.

[HangFireW8]

File down a set of 9mm, 380, 32 and/or 25 cases to different heights for your required volumes, solder on a wire handle to each and call it good.

You can try to talk Lee into a new product, but new tooling for something that is not a growth market makes that unlikely.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

File down a set of 9mm, 380, 32 and/or 25 cases to different heights for your required volumes, solder on a wire handle to each and call it good.

You can try to talk Lee into a new product, but new tooling for something that is not a growth market makes that unlikely.
I see. I have made the custom dippers for certain loads that I like. I was thinking that if Lee (or someone) could produce a set of 15 dippers at a cost similar to Lee's current dipper set it would actually be easier than monkeying around finding, filing, and soldering various pistol cases to fit.
For the time it takes me to twist and shape a wire handle, solder it on, then file it to size - 10 dollars for a set of 15 plastic ones would be a real bargain.

But if Lee can't tool up for such and endeavor I guess custom making my own is a necessary evil.

[Outpost75]

...I was thinking that if Lee (or someone) could produce a set of 15 dippers at a cost similar to Lee's current dipper set it would actually be easier than monkeying around finding, filing, and soldering various pistol cases to fit...

But if Lee can't tool up for such and endeavor I guess custom making my own is a necessary evil.

Not sure how much it costs to sink dies for injection molding plastics these days. I suppose if you placed an order for 100,000 sets you could cover the cost of machinery, tooling, time and material to produce and market them and break even at $10 a set. And you might even sell them all in 10 years if guns and handloading were still legal...

When I worked at Ruger company policy was that new models which could be produced by assembling existing parts were OK if a distributor placed a 1000-piece minimum order.

A new model which had to be engineered from scratch required a $1million committment in orders spread over two years, up front.

This was in the mid-1980s. I'm sure the requirements are higher now.

[gwpercle]

Count me in.... I would buy a set .
The smaller sizes are more useful than the larger . My most used dippers are made from 22 short, 22 long , 22 LR , 25 acp, 32 acp ....dippers below about 5.5 cc. Having some with small increments between would be sweet. My home made ones are nothing to brag about...my 22 LR dips 2.8 grains of Bullseye , gets a lot of use but has a bent paperclip for a handle! A nice well made set would be appreciated . I'm not a handy person who's good at making anything except a big mess and a pot of Gumbo .
Gary

[Wheelgun]

Yeah if it can be done I’d be in for 2 sets.

[wasa]

As others have done, I have purchased (on ebay) an old red set of Lee dippers. Combined with the yellows, it gives me a few more choices. Someone on this site made a chart of the yellow & red volumes in a nice table (can't easily find it now but I'm sure someone with better search skills than me will post it)

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I got a response from Lee. They said they'll put it on the list of customer-recommended products.

Sigh. They wouldn't even discuss the possibility of a group buy - just sort of shut me down. I guess this is a "no".

[barrabruce]

I have found that a ugly looking homemade dipper gets more of the "this guy is completely wacko and is gunna blow him self up"
response to a more
"Ohh using a dipper like the old times did.....like it will sort of work but not accurate and you’d have to be desperate wouldn’t you" type of response.

Ha :-D

[Bazoo]

I'd buy a set. I'd buy a set that covered smaller increments in rifle sizes too. Sorta a master set.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I swear, or at least in my garage, that 800X should come with a courtesy set of dippers. My Redding powder thrower piddles like a puppy in a thunderstorm if it catches sight of the bottle when I open the powder cabinet.

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[crankycalico]

What would be beneficial is if the chart matched what the dippers can do.

FOR EACH POWDER LISTED.

I think Lee makes the dippers JUST so that they can sell a Trickler.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

What would be beneficial is if the chart matched what the dippers can do.

FOR EACH POWDER LISTED.

I think Lee makes the dippers JUST so that they can sell a Trickler.
Not quite sure what you mean by this.

Lee already publishes the VMD for many powders. You can just calculate the volume cc for a desired charge by: (desired charge in grains) x (Lee's VMD for desired powder) = volume of charge in cc.

If you want to know what a given Lee dipper will throw that math is just about as simple: (Lee dipper in cc) ÷ (Lee's VMD) = (grains of powder thrown). So the 0.7cc dipper would throw a charge of 6.4 grains of Unique - give or take.
That's (0.7cc) ÷ (0.1092vmd) = 6.4 grains.

Actually I could see this as being pretty useful if you own a set of dippers. I may create a spreadsheet for this.

[gwpercle]

If Lee , or someone else , would make the dippers , I would make my own chart . I sit down with my scale , a powder , dip 10 charges with each of my home made (or Lee made) dippers and record what each of my dippers dip , with my technique and whatever powder I'm dipping .
I keep all the powder-dipper-weights dipped in a log book and even note the technique I use.
Varying your technique will change the weight...as long as technique is consistent the charge is consistent.

I wonder if someone with a 3D printer could copy a Lee dipper and adjust the cavity size to the different increments... I have no idea what I'm talking about but would like a set pistol dippers .
My home made dippers are sketchy looking at best... they scream....Bubba Made , Redneck City !

Gary

[bruce drake]

or take those extra large dippers on the large end of the scale and fill them with glue or epoxy and then just drill out your own cavities to meet the volumes you need ;)

[RedHawk357Mag]

A picture of some cool looking metal dippers with a useful looking handle. I find a 45/70 case makes a fantastic trickler when dipping powders for load work ups. I use one of those six inch metal bench rules that are machinist tools. Made by General might be called a slide caliper for levelling off the dipper. I use a old 35 millimeter film development container to dip out of. Nice wide bottom, the weight adds stability. A device called a salt spoon is pretty handy to get small amounts of kerrnels of powder. Kind of spendy, looks like drug paraphernalia but is still pretty handy in conjunction with the 45/70 casing.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190111/0eaaef3fc53e4e96bb6604b894e182e3.jpg

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[crankycalico]

I have the dippers, but the ISSUE with MINE is that my set seems to be about 2 grains short for red dot.

[RogerDat]

Member in a recent thread suggested using wax as a fill to bring existing Lee dipper down to desired volume for a given powder. I would think fine adjusting to the amount of wax would be easy. Do overs would be easy, and a little time in hot water would put things back good as new.

While it would be nice to have the pre-made smaller increment dippers what is really needed is a dipper that delivers the right amount of a specific powder for a specific load. One can always order dippers for 0.99 in the stock size after doing a wax modification to replace it in the stock set. Or get 2 or 3 to modify for your favorite mild, regular, hot load of some powder in a cartridge.

Those dippers are made in a full set mold, note they are all attached to the flow line. Not trivial amount of cost to have another mold made so I would be doubtful limited buy would warrant Lee eating much if any set up costs and if passed on to group buy would make the cost prohibitive. One can call Lee and ask, they seem approachable on custom work. Report back what they say.

[pastera]

If you know someone with a 3D printer just print out what you need:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3350388

I made my own model for a Lee AutoDisk with insertable powder bushings - takes a very short time to print out a new bushing for an exact drop.

For anyone questioning durability, I print bullet seating stems (lee dies) and top punches (Lyman 45/450/4500) and with 1000+ uses there is no apparent wear or damage. I even messed up while sizing bullets - placed one wrong, pulled the handle and marked the bullet about 1/16" deep with no damage to the printed plastic top punch.

[longbow]

Even easier...

Make or buy a punch to make disks that just fit snuggly into the dipper (any larger than you need dipper) then punch cardboard disks to displace the volume you need to get to where you want. A woodscrew can be used to thread into the disks after to remove them if you want a different volume next time.

I do this when I am using granular filler for loads (a whole different topic)... with a slight difference. I measure the volume of powder and remaining volume of the cartridge then put that volume of filler into a home made dipper then push a thin cardboard disk in to keep it all in place. This makes an adjustable dipper without needing a machine shop to make it. This dipper is used to measure the granular filler going on top of the powder charge. I made my dipper out of a range pick up Winchester short magnum case with a handle soldered on it as mentioned by several people. Any larger than you need cartridge or piece of tube with one cap (metal or plastic tube capped on one end) will work.

Once I am done with that volume I thread the wood screw into the disk, pull it out then dump the filler. It is quick and easy, and adjustable for any volume you want by checking thrown weight with a scale then adjust volume as required to get exact weight. The disks tend to be reusable several times and are just cereal box cardboard punched out by hand.

Easier than wax (I think) and not permanent like epoxy.

It works for me.

Longbow

[nawagner]

Old cases, filled with wax or expoxy are the way I go. I still measure every charge on my scale though. I guess I am pretty particular that way and don't do a a lot of loading at once.

Longbow's got a pretty good idea as well.

[crankycalico]

I know that the powder companies have changed formulas last few years.

Is that the reason why my lee dipper set made in the last few years no longer measures out the way the chart says it should?

[ghh3rd]

Don’t a lot of kernels stick to the wax? Is there a particular type of wax that works better for this purpose? What is the process... scrape some wax out and melt to bottom, test volume, repeat until satisfied? How long do these wax filled dippers last? Thanks for piquing my curiousity.

[RogerDat]

If you know someone with a 3D printer just print out what you need:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3350388

I made my own model for a Lee AutoDisk with insertable powder bushings - takes a very short time to print out a new bushing for an exact drop.

For anyone questioning durability, I print bullet seating stems (lee dies) and top punches (Lyman 45/450/4500) and with 1000+ uses there is no apparent wear or damage. I even messed up while sizing bullets - placed one wrong, pulled the handle and marked the bullet about 1/16" deep with no damage to the printed plastic top punch.

Added to my book marks! Just a quick look showed many useful items being crafted for reloading. Hmmm who do I know with a 3D printer? Those scoops would be the perfect thing for reloading shotgun round ball or slug when the Lee set doesn't hit the right capacity.

[RogerDat]

Don’t a lot of kernels stick to the wax? Is there a particular type of wax that works better for this purpose? What is the process... scrape some wax out and melt to bottom, test volume, repeat until satisfied? How long do these wax filled dippers last? Thanks for piquing my curiousity.

I'm not sure. Solution was mentioned as part of a discussion like this one. I would almost think some of the harder glossy waxes would be least likely to have sticking issues. Heated wire and maybe absorbent paper towel should allow for removing wax or maybe a warmed nail for compacting and providing a smooth top finish. I have a stash of Salvation Army sourced candles for smelting wax, and some beeswax for muzzle loader lube. I plan on giving it a try next time I load shotgun round ball or slug. I really have to use a scoop for that loading. The load is pretty much always the same. A fairly large load so a tenth or two variation isn't a large percentage of the load. Even if first scoops some powder sticks that would cover the wax and load would be consistent after that.

Not sure I would use the wax fill for loading .32 ACP where the load is ~2 grains. A couple tenths there is 20% variation. Might try it just to find out one way or the other if wax works at those small charge levels. I use a micro disk on Lee Auto Disk powder measure for small charges. So a 3D printed version of that that micro disk that takes printed bushing might be very useful for those small loads. I find accuracy to be very consistent and am comfortable with visual check of each load and weighing every 4th or 5th case. Just sometimes it would be nice if I had an opening that yielded a tenth or two more or less than the standard micro disk opening. That said I depend on it so will probably order a second micro disk from Titan even though they are somewhat expensive.

[JBinMN]

Don’t a lot of kernels stick to the wax?

Not for me so far. I just used a candle & dripped the wax into the bottom. If there was powder residue from using the dipper before without the wax, the wax may come loose in a chunk, at some time, or if ya bang or drop the dipper, but that has not happened to me so far. Making sure the dipper was cleaned well before adding the wax has not let me have any issues so far.

Is there a particular type of wax that works better for this purpose?

Not that I know... I have just used regular unscented candle wax. like those long tapered ones. I reckon paraffin wax like Gulf wax will likely do the same.

What is the process... scrape some wax out and melt to bottom, test volume, repeat until satisfied?

Yes, basically...What I have done is weigh out the powder on a scale & place it in the dipper, observing approx. how much space was left over to the top of the dipper. Then, deal with the powder by returning to the container, or put in a hull, or case, then light the candle & try to drip in approx. the amount of space that was left while the powder was in the dipper. Then let cool & then scoop powder once cool & hard & re-weigh. If I need to remove a bit of wax, I use a small std/flat screwdriver & scrape a bit of wax off the top of the wax inside the dipper & re-weigh again. Repeat until I am getting the desired amount of powder.

How long do these wax filled dippers last?

Mine have lasted until I am done filling the hulls or cases I wish to use, then I remove the wax, so I can use it as if it was not wax filled if I want/need to do so. It takes so little time to add it, & then remove it, that is how I have done it. Look at it this way. Just like when you are done loading a certain powder measured set of rounds, then you usually empty the powder measure for the next time, as you may be using a different powder & thus a different setting, or you may be using the same powder, but for a different type caliber or gauge & want to start from -zero-.

Thanks for piquing my curiousity

G'Luck!
:)

[ghh3rd]

Just had a brainstorm :idea:

I think I’ll try what you said but use lead instead of wax, purposefully adding a bit of extra lead. Then heat the case and lead until it melts and let it harden level. Should be able to hand turn a drill bit about the diameter of the inside of the case to gradually scrape away lead until the exact volume is achieved.

Do you use regular electronics solder to attach a handle to the dipper?

When I try this I’ll post back with the results.

[RogerDat]

Just had a brainstorm :idea:

I think I’ll try what you said but use lead instead of wax, purposefully adding a bit of extra lead. Then heat the case and lead until it melts and let it harden level. Should be able to hand turn a drill bit about the diameter of the inside of the case to gradually scrape away lead until the exact volume is achieved.

Do you use regular electronics solder to attach a handle to the dipper?

When I try this I’ll post back with the results.

If you have a Dremal or similar tool there are bits that would possibly offer a cutting surface that is flatter than a drill and easier to use with precision to remove small amounts of lead. Maybe a bulk hit with a drill bit which should leave a cone shaped depression followed by a Dremal bit working around the edges of the cone to remove the last little bit of lead to dial in the capacity.

Acid core metal solder or acid flux and solder might yield a stronger joint for a handle than electronic solder. No big science behind that thought, just that when I was a young one I was taught that acid core metal solder (50/50 sticks in my mind but fuzzy) was for soldering metal joints and resin core higher tin solders were for electronics. But I also recall my dad doing a lot of stuff with plain old 70/30 solder from fixing metal parts to electrical connections. Circuit boards were not on the menu back then but replacing capacitors etc. or wires were repaired with that and his choice of flux appropriate to the job. I think I my first real "electronics" solder for my projects was 60/40 and no kid was prouder of a 1/2 pound roll of solder than I was.

By the way thanks JBinMin for the more detailed explanation. It was your post I saw originally. I'm planning on giving the idea a go next time I load round ball or slug for shotgun. I can't hit the exact load I want with Lee dippers so it should be a good use case. The 3D printer idea might be a good one for a specific load but then I don't have a 3D printer and I do have candles and dippers :-)

[JBinMN]

By the way thanks JBinMin for the more detailed explanation. It was your post I saw originally. I'm planning on giving the idea a go next time I load round ball or slug for shotgun. I can't hit the exact load I want with Lee dippers so it should be a good use case. The 3D printer idea might be a good one for a specific load but then I don't have a 3D printer and I do have candles and dippers :-)


You are welcome!
Make sure if ya use this wax method, that you clean the dippers beforehand. Some brake cleaner, carb cleaner, rubbing alcohol or something that doesn't have any lubes in it to help the wax contact the plastic & hold. You will have to give some time for the solvent to evaporate though before adding the candle wax, IMO.

Another thing to remember is if you do drop the dipper, and the wax "plug" drops out, you may have to redo the wax. An idea that I have yet to try, since I have not yet tried to "re-install" the wax if it fell out from dropping, but it has occurred to me that if it does come out for some reason, a light coat of Elmers glue applied with a Q-tip/cotton swab to the bottom of the dipper & the wax "plug, re-inserted & left to dry should keep the plug in the dipper for some time as well.

P.S. - on a break from here, just now I went down to the re-loading room & grabbed a "cleaned" 2.2 cc Lee yellow dipper & dripped a little candle wax into it just to try a simple test, and have been rapping it briskly on the table here for about 25 +/- raps to see if I could get the wax to dislodge & the wax has not fell out yet. So, like I said, make sure there is no powder residue from a previous powder , or take the time to "clean" the dipper & let it sit awhile for evaporation of the solvent, then add the candle wax.

G'Luck!
:)