Too much technology

[Petrol & Powder]

Girlfriend's car would not start.
Ran fine when parked. Next morning it would crank but would not start.

Here's what happened:
Parked the car the day before, used the key to open the trunk and the plastic key handle detached from the metal portion of the key leaving the key in the trunk lock. No big deal - just pulled the key out of the lock and snapped the plastic head back onto the metal part of the key and carried on. Problem solved,... so I thought.

Turns out the RFID chip had fallen out of the key when it came apart and I didn't notice. When I put the key back together the chip was lying on the ground (gravel driveway and the chip was encased in black plastic - about the size of the gravel, some of which is black :-( )

The next morning that same key would operate the starter but because the chip was on the ground behind the car, the **** thing wouldn't start. Took me about 20 minutes to figure out what had happened and another 10 the find the **** black plastic chip in the gravel behind the car. At least the weather was nice !

Found the chip, pulled the key apart again, put the chip back in the key, snapped the plastic back together - key starts the car again.

That's just TOO MUCH technology !!

[rking22]

Gotta agree there! That stupid chip is a solution to a non problem!

[NyFirefighter357]

Take the chip and glue it next to the key cylinder on the column (this works for most cars) then you don't need an expensive key to start your car or don't need a bypass to install a remote starter.

[JBinMN]

I get way too angry when thinking about vehicle engineers & the really stupid things they have done over the years with vehicles. Particularly the BS hoops they have folks do to try to do simple maintenance, rather than taking the vehicle to a dealership for it. Some times you think you have to remove the spare tire from the trunk to check the oil.

I have dealt with the key chip issue myself with the missus' vehicle & I had to superglue the key together so it would work right. The cost of extra spare keys is out of this world...

I am going to stop with that said, before I get riled up on Sunday morning...

Glad you found the chip & solved the issue without too much trouble.
-------------------
Posted right as I was posting...

Take the chip and glue it next to the key cylinder on the column (this works for most cars) then you don't need an expensive key to start your car or don't need a bypass to install a remote starter.

^That is a good idea.^ too late for me though.

[pls1911]

Amen. Some design engineers really needed to be shopworn gear-heads first.
Over the years, how many "special factory tools " have you fabricated from coat hangers, metal strap, or simply used needle nose pliers for ?
I had an old chevy ranch truck that we replaced carb linkage every few years with new welding rods bent as needed...

[reddog81]

You’re lucky the chip was lost in a place where it could be found.

The auto makers care about making as much money as possible. My car doesn’t even have a oil drain. You need a pump to suck out the oil. Just another step to get people to go into the dealership for every maintenance function.

Those giant key fobs make it so inconvenient to carry multiple car keys. I might have to try some of the suggestions in this thread to see if I could just carry around the key and make that work.

[popper]

The chip actually used to be in the key, separate remote. Ever try to change the steering wheel lock?

[woodbutcher]

:D Hi Reddog.A friend cured that problem real easy.Dropped the oil pan,and cut the drain plug out of a junk oil pan and welded it into the vehicles pan.Problem solved.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Minerat]

How about the new lazer cut keys. Had to have a chevy key made at a volvo dealer because when I bought the new High Country they did not have one in the dealership. They also charged me 85$ for the extra key after paying $65K for the truck. No kiss either!

By the way it does not have a chip in it so when you manually open the drivers door (only door with a key hole) the alarm beeps till you turn on the ignition switch.

[robg]

Yep got them on bikes now.don't try and start it with both keys on the same ring ,it confuses the brain and they won't start.don't get me started on the latest keyless ignition !

[NyFirefighter357]

How about the new lazer cut keys. Had to have a chevy key made at a volvo dealer because when I bought the new High Country they did not have one in the dealership. They also charged me 85$ for the extra key after paying $65K for the truck. No kiss either!

By the way it does not have a chip in it so when you manually open the drivers door (only door with a key hole) the alarm beeps till you turn on the ignition switch.

Does it have a chip but it's not programed? https://youtu.be/lcB4IqKWdXQ

[xs11jack]

My wife bought a 12 yr old Japanese car. It only had one key and keyfob. Asked parts people the cost of a new one. $400. They said they had to send to Japan to get new key made. Outrageous. A lot of the bull fog is built in the system so we have to spend more more money. I sure miss my 66 Corvette.
Ole Jack

[mold maker]

I bought a used 2015 KIA for a granddaughter, and didn't know until she drove home that it only had one key fob. A second fob cost $28. more than a payment.

[Wag]

There's no ignition "key" for my current car and my previous car. Just a fob. And I'm told they cost about $500 to replace and reprogram. The only nice thing about it is that it just stays in my pocket and I press a start/stop button to turn the car on and off again.

In the old days, I did all the work on my cars and motorcycles. Can't do it any more so it has to go to the dealer for everything. Crazy.

--Wag--

[lightman]

I find it commendable that you were able to troubleshoot this problem and solve it. Yeah, technology is a wonderful thing until its not! I'm another that used to do a lot of my own work. Not anymore. You have to have an expensive computer, with expensive updates, to talk to the car's computer. And a lot of special tools to do the actual work.

I guess I'm a Dinosaur! I still have a timing light and a dwell meter hanging over my work bench! And a set of brake spring pliers and spark plug gap gauges in my tool box. Prolly some other antique stuff!

[gwpercle]

This is the reason I'm still driving my 1968 Chevelle.....No Technology.
No computer, no electronic anything....points, plugs, condenser and a 4 bbl carburetor .
It always starts and has never left me stranded...
I can tune it with a screwdriver ....... Love the lack of technology sometimes.

Just did a few "speed" modifications to the 327 V-8 and it runs like a scalded cat... with the dual Cherry Bomb glass pack exhaust it sounds wonderful !
If you have a classic muscle car...keep it !
Gary

[Nobade]

Yep, my '86 Toyota truck isn't sexy but it most always works and when it doesn't I can always figure out how to make it go again. 2004 crown Vic is the most modern thing I own and it's a dinosaur compared to what's out there now. Still too complex for me though.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

German cars are among the worst for new techno gimmics. They had the same problem in WWII. Their tanks were so laden with gimmicks that they had to be sent back to Germany to be fixed while the Russian T34 could be repaired in the field. At Stalingrad the rats chewed the wiring in the German tanks and the turrets would not turn leaving them pretty much useless. When my brother had a Honda motor cycle shop he did a good business in used cars. His insurance company would sell him cars they had written off and one of the cars was a BMW that was only a few years old but the wiring loom had for some reason fried itself. The insurance company figured it was cheaper to replace the car than pay the dealer to rewire the car. My brother new a man who would do the job for under a thousand so he bought the car, had it rewired and made money on it.

[shortlegs]

Thats why I keep my 25 year old truck. It has some of the tech on it but I can still work on it. After all the tech problems with her vw , the wife wants me to rebuild a 63 falcon I have for her everyday driver.

[Petrol & Powder]

I guess I'm a Dinosaur! I still have a timing light and a dwell meter hanging over my work bench! And a set of brake spring pliers and spark plug gap gauges in my tool box. Prolly some other antique stuff!

If you're a dinosaur then so am I !

I still have a timing light, vacuum gauge, brake spring pliers, spark plug gauges and a vehicle that I use ALL of those tools on.
(not sure where the dwell meter is but I have the ignition wrenches and points file in the box where the dwell meter lived)

[pcolapaddler]

I recall when PCV valves were first introduced on cars. Mechanics grumbled about them and blamed a lot of problems on them.

Kind of humorous today to think about something pretty simple causing so much concern.

I have a 2007 4x4 Tundra. I really like my truck, but...

After a couple of issues, I began to wish for a vehicle with an actual mechanical connection between my right foot and the carburetor rather than fuel injection controlled by a rheostat, actual 4 wheel drive controlled by real linkage to a transfer case and limited slip that wasn't just a computer applying brakes to the spinning wheel.

Dinosaurs r us.

Sent from the largest mountain range in Florida.

[Hickory]

This is the reason I'm still driving my 1968 Chevelle.....No Technology.
No computer, no electronic anything....points, plugs, condenser and a 4 bbl carburetor .
It always starts and has never left me stranded...
I can tune it with a screwdriver ....... Love the lack of technology sometimes.
Gary

You're a couple of steps ahead of the horse & wagon.[smilie=l:

[Gewehr-Guy]

If you think new vehicles are complex, the same thing is happening to farm equipment. Auto steer,field mapping,variable rate seeding andfertilizer application controlled by your digital field maps and yield data collected by the combine. All dependent on multiple satellite signals. Can anyone foresee any problems with this system, hopefully the new Space Force can keep our satellites safe!
I'm still using equipment that I can actually fix, my favorite combine is a '74 model, and the new one is an '82. Also have some junkers laying around as spare parts.

[pcolapaddler]

Cars, farm equipment, boats, motorcycles. Everything is getting nuch more - way too complicated.


I like tech stuff and make my living in it, but I do enjoy simple stuff.

Stick shift, carburetors, cane pole fishing. I think we need ones of those groups.... simple stuff anonymous.

Sent from the largest mountain range in Florida.

[Bulldogger]

I had a similar problem when my late 90's Buick had a key with a resistor in the center of it. Apparently it is supposed to make contact with leads inside the ignition switch barrel, only something had gotten worn and it would work intermittently. If not working, the car wouldn't start for a one minute delay. Someone's idea of anti-theft. I grabbed the shop manual, which I'd bought years before, and figured out where that ignition circuit was, then put together a resistor pack that matched that of my key, and shorted it across the wiring leads to disable the interlock. Worked fine after that and new keys only cost $1.75!

As to replacing fobs, in my experience the dealer wants >$200, but you can often find compatible ones on eBay and then YouTube will show you how to program them to your car. Did that several times myself. Not all fobs are available of course, but many are.

BDGR

[Minerat]

Does it have a chip but it's not programed? https://youtu.be/lcB4IqKWdXQ

Good question. I'll give it a try and report back. Thanks a bunch!

1-13-18

Update it was already programed. Must be some attention getter if you DON'T have the fob. Oh well it was a good idea.

[woodbutcher]

:grin: All the tech junk.That`s why I love my 84 F150 300ci inline 6.Got rid of the computer carb and all the junk associated with it.Went back to the DS2 ign system.Fuel mileage went from 8mpg on the road to 16.Big difference.
Change over was super simple.Just plug and play,as all the plug ins were in the truck wiring harness.Oh yeah.Be careful of the"fly by wire"systems,as it has already been proven to be able to be hacked by a simple lap top beside the vehicle.Just think of the fun.Turn the steering wheel left,and you go right.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[abunaitoo]

Shouldn't be mad at the technology.
You should be mad at the reason for it.
Key chip is to prevent it from being stolen.
Get mad at car thieves.
Computer control power train is for mandated mileage and emission laws.
Get mad at the environmentalist and government.
Government is moving to eliminate driving and gas powered cars.
Cars will drive themselves, and all be electric.
Enjoy it while we can.

[Petrol & Powder]

Considering that a HUGE percentage of stolen cars have the keys IN the car, the chip makes little sense.

And I'm not just talking about the key in the switch. People leave the valet key in the car (usually in the glove box or center console) and actually seem shocked when someone steals the car using the KEY !

I'd be willing to bet that 80%+ of the cars stolen in the U.S. had the keys in them !

Thieves look in all of the places that keys are commonly hidden and yes, they know where you are likely to hide a key.
Locking the doors doesn't prevent the thief from accessing the interior and if you leave a key for them it doesn't matter how sophisticated the anti-theft system is. It's like buying the best safe in the world and writing the combination on the outside of the door,

I can do without all of that technology. I have a car that doesn't even need a key to start it (the switch is in the dash and the key can be removed in the off position OR the lock position. If you don't lock the switch you can start and stop the engine without the key).

[Smoke4320]

Shouldn't be mad at the technology.
You should be mad at the reason for it.
Key chip is to prevent it from being stolen.
Get mad at car thieves.
Computer control power train is for mandated mileage and emission laws.
Get mad at the environmentalist and government.
Government is moving to eliminate driving and gas powered cars.
Cars will drive themselves, and all be electric.
Enjoy it while we can.

"and all be electric." but just think you will be able to plug in an aftermarket card that increases volts by 1/4% and adds 2 extra watts NOW we are flying NOT
Have to add playing cards to the rims to get sound :)

[rking22]

I hear about the autonomous vehicles every day, until that is the only thing on the road, I will NOT get in one! I have made a good living over the past 35+ years because technology fails, always has ,always will. I refuse to be unable to "take control" when that happens. Personal vehicles are not airliners, they will not have the number of backup systems to takeover when the primary fails, too costly to duplicate hardware when competing a price point. Software, that's a joke, I have to deal with code written by idiots daily, works mostly. The problem is exception handling, they all live in a perfect world. Driving has too many "exceptions", and a failure is deadly. Can an autonomous car wander city streets better than an average distracted driver, yeah maybe. Thing is, we humans can learn to be better than average, I don't get in a car with an "average distracted driver" , no how no way.
I want to know how they expect to "fill up" the 300 mile per charge cars in their utopia, Cali doesn't have enough power now, where are they going to get more to offset the gas used now? How bout a "fill-in station" where it takes 3 hours(takes 8 presently to fully charge) to recharge on a 950 mile trip. Nope, not ready for prime time, but that's just me being old fashioned[smilie=l:

[Blammer]

I deal with that type of tech everyday at work, for keys and such.

here is the "fix" for you on your car. take out the chip from the key, get a hot glue gun and glue it really close to where you insert the key to start car.

now it will always start. :D

no worries about losing the chip again.

[Petrol & Powder]

I deal with that type of tech everyday at work, for keys and such.

here is the "fix" for you on your car. take out the chip from the key, get a hot glue gun and glue it really close to where you insert the key to start car.

now it will always start. :D

no worries about losing the chip again.

I'm seriously considering that.

[Wag]

I'd be willing to bet that 80%+ of the cars stolen in the U.S. had the keys in them !

Every winter here in Albuquerque, we hear news reports of "warm-up drive off" auto thefts. For some reason, people have this idea that it's okay to start their car in the morning and go back into the house while their car's interior warms up. And it doesn't even get all that cold here. The insurance companies in many cases won't pay the claim, either.

All because some people believe that it's better to put their mode of transportation at risk than just wear a coat and gloves. Crazy.

--Wag--

[Petrol & Powder]

There are some high end cars stolen by flatbed wreckers or sophisticated techniques to clone keys but the VAST majority of stolen cars simply have the keys in them.

The keys with chips don't prevent theft when the owner gives the key to the thief by leaving the key somewhere in the car.
Prior to keys with RFID chips it wasn't difficult for a thief to copy a key and return to steal the car at a later time. The popular method was to test drive a new car and copy the key during the test drive. I honestly believe the chip keys were more to stop the theft of the new cars from dealership lots than to prevent theft any time after the car was sold. After the sale of the new car the technology was more annoying to the owner than to a potential thief.

In any event, I prefer less technology.

[mold maker]

Every winter here in Albuquerque, we hear news reports of "warm-up drive off" auto thefts. For some reason, people have this idea that it's okay to start their car in the morning and go back into the house while their car's interior warms up. And it doesn't even get all that cold here. The insurance companies in many cases won't pay the claim, either.

All because some people believe that it's better to put their mode of transportation at risk than just wear a coat and gloves. Crazy.

--Wag--


With all the smart vehicle technology why can't they make all cars with the ability of a remote starter? At my age that's a useful extra on just a few currently.
The only time I had a vehicle broken in to was after an officer insisted I lock it for safety. Sure enough the next night the window was broken and the interior trashed. The DA didn't prosecute and I wound up with a couple hundred dollar bill.
You can't out technology a thief, only make it more inconvenient.

[crankycalico]

after 2010 you are forced to pay a few hundred to a dealer ship to clone keys for you gm vehicles. They took that option out of the car system. And you have to get the key from the dealership too.

And from dealerships tell me, the newer say 2016 have the key profile stored in some master gm database tied to each vin number so you just walk in show your vin and title, and they search the vin and hit start and get a new key made.

[rking22]

And charge you dearly for the convenience.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Instead of putting the chip in the car, I'd be tempted to see about gluing the chip to my wallet or the like; That would make it harder for a thief who could pick the lock or bypass it, to run off with the vehicle.

Better would be to have a "Trunk Monkey" installed :)

[GregLaROCHE]

[QUOTE=mold maker;4548222]With all the smart vehicle technology why can't they make all cars with the ability of a remote starter? At my age that's a useful extra on just a few currently.

They do make them. A lot of people living in Alaska have them. If your vehicle is not too old you can have one installed.

[woodbutcher]

:lol:And NOW with the swell new scanners that the thieves have,they can also steal the info from your remote starter/key fob when you use it and take off with your car contents and/or your car later.How about that carp?
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[mold maker]

My experience with after market add on accessories is dismal. Most are cheaply made at exorbitant prices and have a history of less than a years service before failure. Even the factory installed ones don't seem to last, but then YMMV.
I'm saying, the remote start feature would serve safety and theft concerns while offering a useful convenience, and if offered as std equipment wouldn't add substantially to cost.

[Finster101]

So you guys would rather go back to the days where all it takes is a coat hanger and a piece of wire to drive off with your car?

[Petrol & Powder]

So you guys would rather go back to the days where all it takes is a coat hanger and a piece of wire to drive off with your car?

YES. :bigsmyl2:

[rking22]

Yep, me too. But then see " this car owes me nuthing thread" nobody wants any of mine!

[MaLar]

Amen. Some design engineers really needed to be shopworn gear-heads first.
Over the years, how many "special factory tools " have you fabricated from coat hangers, metal strap, or simply used needle nose pliers for ?
I had an old chevy ranch truck that we replaced carb linkage every few years with new welding rods bent as needed...

I think these people should have to live with what they design. Maybe things would be more people friendly.

[Buzzard II]

And don't forget the politicians that have their hand into mandating items for our new cars and trucks (18 wheelers too!). I've had to have two 4 cylinder engines rebuilt because of excessive oil consumption, but the politicians say it has great gas mileage-yeah right. Ever notice how many minor accidents today result in a vehicle rolling over? The list goes on and on.

[crankycalico]

So you guys would rather go back to the days where all it takes is a coat hanger and a piece of wire to drive off with your car?

yes I would.

Who wants to have to spend 600$ on a new ignition cylinder because "that's the only model that can integrate with your cruise control system that you don't use"

or

Before the days of "if the battery is used for to long of a period when it gets below 50% charging capacity, it electrocutes the ignition switch"

or

Before when you didn't need 200$ tools and 300$ scanners to reset the engine every time you changed a spark plug?

[Petrol & Powder]

I had a 69 Buick that had a lock cylinder on the steering column like all GM cars of that era. When you removed the key it locked the wheel and shift lever.
The cylinder wore to the point that the key wouldn't unlock it. I used a dent puller (slide hammer) to yank the lock cylinder out just like a thief would. It took about 10 seconds to defeat that lock. I drove that car for about week using a screw driver to start it. I purchased a new lock cylinder and snapped it back in place. (another 10 seconds to fix it) and it worked fine.
Of course I had to have two keys at that point, 1 to unlock the doors and another to start the car but that was a minor inconvenience.

Anti-theft devices tend to be more annoying to owners than to thieves.