Cast for .444 marlin SAECO 431? Accurate 43-250J?

[Peregrine]

Gentlemen,

After having a great deal of success in casting boolits for my milsurp rifles, years of reading about and contemplating the .44 caught up to me and I decided I needed a big bore I can feed.

Now what I should have done is gone and got myself an unconverted three screw Blackhawk in .44mag (still will!), but instead I figured if I was going to get myself a hand cannon, I was getting a hand cannon and a MRI lone eagle in .444 marlin managed to catch my eye. Didn't hurt the lgs had dies lying around for a song.

Now since i'm in Canada and the pistol is in the states, the import process is a bit lengthy (another 8 weeks or so) but I do happen to have a good deal of time for casting right now so i'd best get ahead in the whole endeavor.


I'm looking for advice on the two molds in the title in particular, and i'm not looking to just choose one or the other.


The 43-250J i'm attracted to for obvious reasons, i've heard Accurate makes great molds, and the reputation and lineage of the 429421 it's based on is without peer.
I figured if i'm going to be casting .44's it's a bullet that simply must be in my inventory. I'd be silly not to.

My question is how well it's going to fit in the .444, does anyone happen to know if when crimping into the crimp groove the front band would cause a problem in the .444, i.e. not fit. I can only assume i'll be sizing these between .430 and .432.

I know I can just crimp over the front band, but to my inexperienced eyes that doesn't look quite proper and i'd like to avoid that if I can. If not I may put buying that pattern off for a bit.


The SAECO mold i'm looking at because i'm inevitably going to end up trying to shoot this gun as far as I can make hits on large steel, so gas checks are in order because i'm definitely going to drive them as fast as I can stand...at least some of the time. :-P

I've heard good things about many of the SAECO designs (except that they cast undersize...but I have some high antimony alloys to break out if it comes to that), but not the 431 in particular. The 431 is a choice i'm still leaning towards because it has a gas check, odds are it will fit in my .444 crimped in the groove (i'd hope!), and the weight is around where I want it.
I could go a bit lighter, or a bit heavier but I think it's a good compromise for longer range performance and not outright shattering my wrists.

All my molds up to now are from NOE, and while there is certainly nothing wrong with them I want to play the field a bit and try out the other big names, as well as try out an iron mould. But these moulds are pretty pricey (understatement!) and I want to know as much as I can going in.


If you've read into these musing I thank you, and I besiege you for any experience or anecdotes you have that may be relevant.

[quilbilly]

I am currently shooting a boolit from a very old out-of-production SWC Lee mold that is almost identical to the Accurate 43-260J but with a plain base in my old Marlin 444. It feeds well and shoots well at an MV of about 1200 fps using about 19.5 gr. of 5744. Accurate makes excellent molds. My old mold drops boolits between 260 and 265 gr depending on the alloy.

[reloader28]

I think that Accurate mold has too long a nose for 444. I dont think you can go any longer than about .350'ish on the nose. Also make sure that it is no bigger dia in front of the crimp groove than .425. Mine wont chamber any bigger.

Something like the 275MG might work. I like a 300gr in mine so maybe the 300G. The 300N has a bit more meplat.
I'm currently using the Lee 310 but I have to lathe a bit of taper in front of the crimp groove to chamber in mine

[Shuz]

The mould I favor for my 444Marlin XLR is an MP-433-300HP, it drops at .432 with ww+1%tin and has an oal of 2.533. This boolit was designed for the .444 Marlin and works well. I drive mine to >2200 fps with Reloder 7.

[Peregrine]

I am currently shooting a boolit from a very old out-of-production SWC Lee mold that is almost identical to the Accurate 43-260J but with a plain base in my old Marlin 444. It feeds well and shoots well at an MV of about 1200 fps using about 19.5 gr. of 5744. Accurate makes excellent molds. My old mold drops boolits between 260 and 265 gr depending on the alloy.

Interesting, do you have the front driving band ahead of the case?



I think that Accurate mold has too long a nose for 444. I dont think you can go any longer than about .350'ish on the nose. Also make sure that it is no bigger dia in front of the crimp groove than .425. Mine wont chamber any bigger.


The OAL should not be an issue since i'll be shooting these out of a single shot, breech loading pistol. I added that little detail to the title to clarify my question.
I see a that Accurate's designs for the .444 do indeed stick to a max of .425 after the crimp groove, and some of the descriptions reference tight throats.

Realistically i'm going to have to get the gun in and see what's going on for myself.
It's hard enough to find any good reference to what the throat is typically like in the caliber since the major concern is getting them to feed through lever actions, and in any case there's no reason to suspect the Lone Eagle throat is similar to that of a model 444, but maybe someone will chime in.


For now I think i'll just order the SAECO mould since it'll probably fit. I'd be surprised if it arrives before the pistol though.



The mould I favor for my 444Marlin XLR is an MP-433-300HP, it drops at .432 with ww+1%tin and has an oal of 2.533. This boolit was designed for the .444 Marlin and works well. I drive mine to >2200 fps with Reloder 7.

I've heard good thing about Reloader 7 for this caliber, that's some serious performance. :o
I am tempted to get a mould that will drop boolits around that weight, but i'd be gently lofting them at a leisurely stroll, i think that would be a lot of fun.

[LAH]

The 431 should be great for you I'd it cast large enough.

[quilbilly]

My 260 gr. SWC-pb's seat just below the first drive band. I set my RCBS seating dies to the precise length of factory loads 25+ years ago and haven't bothered to change it since. Because 5744 powder is often scarce, I also have loaded that boolit in the 444 with 12 gr of Unique with success for an MV of about 1300 fps. If I were elk hunting with the rifle, I do also load it with the Lee 310 gr GC boolit to 1800 fps. The light loads are much more fun to shoot and more than adequate for deer size game out to the farthest I can aim with the iron sights and my old eyes (125 yards).

[500Linebaughbuck]

i use a tc encore in the 444 marlin with a 24" MGM barrel. i have used a 250gr penta hp, 255gr keith, 275gr ranch dog, 280gr lfn/wfn gc and a 300gr saeco fn gc. i can't do mucho velocity (2300fps+ 275gr and 280gr) anymore. heck even when downloaded to 1800-2000fps, my shoulder starts to hurt me after 7 or 8 rounds. i use a 300gr saeco(.431") with AL2400 with a tuft of dacron and it goes roughly 1650fps+/-. its a pussycat for recoil.

the 300gr saeco crimping groove isn't used on mine. the OAL is 2.650" and you can see the crimp groove. i use a lee factory crimp die to crimp the boolit on its sides. i tried not to crimp them but my groups went from 3/4 - 1" at 100 yards(crimp) to 2 1/2"+ at 100 yards(no crimp).

[Peregrine]

the 300gr saeco crimping groove isn't used on mine. the OAL is 2.650" and you can see the crimp groove. i use a lee factory crimp die to crimp the boolit on its sides. i tried not to crimp them but my groups went from 3/4 - 1" at 100 yards(crimp) to 2 1/2"+ at 100 yards(no crimp).

Interesting, I know that 2400 does sometimes require a crimp to perform properly, did you by any chance get velocity readings with and without the crimp? I'm curious as to what may have been going on there.



The 431 should be great for you I'd it cast large enough.

For now that's what I ended up ordering. At least I hope I did, I got in touch with a Canadian Redding distributor, and they said they'd be able to get them in for me but seemed a bit confused when I asked for a four cavity mould, but took a note of it and my credit card information so we'll see what show up.

In case it does cast undersize I have a pinch of linotype here to bump up the antimony in my alloy. If I need more it'll make for a good excuse to order some super hard from Rotometals and experiment with blending high antimony alloys.