hard to close bolt

[Outback32]

hey guys im reloading for a Remington 700 sps in 243. im using hornady full length sizing die and my reloads are hard to close the bolt. and hard to open the bolt once its closed. factory rounds dont cause problems only my reloads. trying to get it solved thanks

[Peregrine]

Loading jacketed or cast?

Odds are either your bullet is stated too far out and you are cramming it into the lands, or you didn't screw your sizing die far enough into the press and aren't resizing the shoulder back as much as your should.

Try clambering a sized brass, but with no bullet seated and report back.

[GARD72977]

If you chamber it and eject it unfired you should have marks on the bullet or case where there is contact

[daengmei]

Color the bullet, neck and shoulder of the round with magic marker. Try chambering. Look for interference by rubs in the ink. I've even colored the entire round when resizing some military fired brass.

[Kraschenbirn]

What kind of brass? Once upon a time I had a similar issue with some once-fired Federal commercial in a 700 BDL. Trimmed brass and problem went away.

Bill

[Walks]

Check case length. If you cases are too long, then the case mouth is running into the chamber mouth.
Time to trim. Some once fired brass I've run into has been too long to chamber a sized case. The crimp in factory brass is often "long" , but will chamber in that factory round because the case mouth is "long" crimped into the cannalure of the factory bullet.

[Bookworm]

I had that problem in a Mosin 91/30. I finally figured out that the fat boolits I was using in that shot-out bore, along with some brands of brass with thick necks, combined to make the neck of the round too fat to chamber.

Mic the neck if your loaded rounds, check the diameter against SAAMI chamber specs. I ended up neck turning certain brass to get it to fit.

[country gent]

I have to ask this, are your handloads in actual 243 brass or sized down 308 cases. Necks thicken when sized down and can cause interference. Other wise inking the cartridge with a magic marker and carefully chamber and extract it ( remember to hold it extracting so the spring loaded plunger doesn't give a "false" reading). the rub marks should tell the tale. A gage to measure compare fired cases shoulder to sized is handy here. allows for setting the die just right for a .001-.002 set back.

[Conditor22]

All good answers. try just the brass then try seating the boolit deep and go from there

[fatnhappy]

Not only all good answers, so much so this thread ought to be stickie worthy

[Outback32]

figured it out i was going by hornadys instructions on setting up sizing die. i screwed the die in a 1/4 further according to rcbs die instructions. the brass works like it should now

[Conditor22]

See what happens when a man reads the instructions [smilie=l:

Glad you figured it out.

[daengmei]

I always read the instructions....they are seldom followed correctly.:groner:

[robg]

When I started loading rifle brass I was used to reloading pistol brass ,did the same thing.

[WRideout]

I had some 6.5 jap that wouldn't chamber. It turned out the case length had grown substantially after repeated loading and firing. They just needed a trim back to spec.

Wayne

[country gent]

WRideout, I have had 220 swift brass after several years of loading the necks thickened enough to need a light neck turning. I check length before loading on rifle cases. Trim as needed. The Swift is the only cartridge that has done this so far.

[redhawk0]

figured it out i was going by hornadys instructions on setting up sizing die. i screwed the die in a 1/4 further according to rcbs die instructions. the brass works like it should now

So...you are using Hornady dies but following RCBS instructions? Interesting. I think I'd be on the phone to Hornady.

redhawk

[Outback32]

I thought i had it figured out turns out i dont. Today I shot 8 rds picked the brass up and the bolt would cycle fine. so i lubed them put in sizer. and again they are hard to cycle the bolt.right after shooting they work fine run through sizer makes bolt hard to close.I took the die apart and found the expander ball was chipped on the top. would this cause my problems

[country gent]

It might create drag and pull the shoulder up a couple thousandths on the down stroke. Another is the body is being squeezed down pushing the shoulder up slightly. II would measure the cases fired at just above the rim extractor cut, mid point on the body and last just behind the shoulder on both fired cases and then sized cases. Also measure at 90* to check for egg shaped cartridges. If your die is down tight to the shell holder you may have a rifle with a near min chamber and a die with a near max "chamber". You might try a different shell holder or "polish" a little of the top of the shell holder or bottom of the die. .005 usually is enough.

[jsizemore]

Like country gent said, when you squeeze the body smaller the brass has to lengthen. An 8th to a quarter turn down on the die should start to push the shoulder toward the base. You may have to go a bit more. You can use your rifles chamber as your gage.
I had a factory Savage 10FP in 308 that was headspaced shorter than SAMMI spec. My RCBS sizing die couldn't push the shoulder back enough to chamber easily. Savage is easy to fix. Loosen the barrel nut and re-headspace with a GO Gage. Gun shot great and my dies worked fine. My buddies 10 year old son took his first bear with that rifle. He loaded the ammo for it too.

[jsizemore]

The way to check if the sizing button is the problem is to remove it from the sizing die and see if your problem persists.

[Outback32]

i measured a case from the mouth to the shoulder.its definitely pulling the shoulder down. i can feel it pull really hard in the die

[country gent]

The critical dimension is from case head to a datum line mid point of shoulder.
Hornady and some others sell a gage to measure this. Or a simple gage can be made with some stock and a drill press. Or epoxy and a dummy round.
Neck dia on a 243 is around .270 ( from memory ). Measure some loaded rounds and see. Add .005 to this.
obtain a 3/4" nut threads aren't important. lay out center of a flat;
drill hole straight thru flat on both sides
Measure dia of mid point on shoulder, counter bore one side of hole to this 3/16" deep.
Deburr and lightly chamfer edges of holes.
This is a comparative gage. Not a true measurement of size but a measurement that can be used to "compare" one case to the next accurately

[country gent]

OOOps forgot the second way.
Find or make a paper tube 3/4" id. coat with wax 3-4 times. on a dummy round at the shoulder wrap with tape to fit snug in the tube. Again wax 3-4 coats and slide onto tube you want 1" of tube above tape. Strand this upright. Mix epoxy and pour in to tube filling it proud but not over filling. Check this often at the start as it may require several time adding epoxy as air works out. When cured remove case and tube. drill neck portion thru and .005 larger. clean up faces square and true. You now have an 1" long accurate gage of you shoulder to use to measure the shoulder with your calipers.

[jsizemore]

It's been a while, but I was helping a friend set up his sizing die. I was explaining using a headspace gage to take a reading from the base to the datum point on the shoulder. He said he didn't have anything like that. I saw a piece of 40 S&W or 10MM on his bench and tried it. As long as we didn't get too heavy handed with the calipers it worked pretty well. It worked well enough for him to get a stoney point/ hornady l-n-l cartridge headspace gauge set. Way easier then juggling 2 pieces of brass in the calipers.

[Lloyd Smale]

many old rem 700s had there chambers cut on the tight side. Ive got a rem classic in 6mm that does the same if I don't use a small base sizing die. Had an old bdl in 06 that was the same. Funny thing is there a couple of the most accurate sporter weight bolt guns ive owned.

[snowwolfe]

Resize 3 cases. Clean off the lube and check case length. If length is OK then try to chamber. If they chamber, great.
If they don't, screw the resizing die down 1/4 turn and repeat.
Repeat as required until the cases chamber easy or with just a tad of resistance.

If you get to the point where the die is screwed down to the point of binding the press then you have one of two issues. Either the die or chamber is bad, or maybe both.

[waksupi]

Remove the firing pin and spring, then see how they cycle.

[Outback32]

I took magic marker too a case. it is rubbing off the shoulder.233464 heres a pic

[Outback32]

i meant neck

[snowwolfe]

What is causing the rubbing? The die or the rifles chamber?
Are you relatively new to reloading?

[Outback32]

new to rifle reloading. been reloading shotgun and pistol for several years now. someone said to put magic marker on a sized case and see where it rubs when you chamber a round so i did

[redhawk0]

Looks like the shoulder isn't being bumped back far enough. Rimless cases headspace off that shoulder...that's the reason for the stiff closure of the bolt.

redhawk

[Echo]

Check case length. If you cases are too long, then the case mouth is running into the chamber mouth.
Time to trim. Some once fired brass I've run into has been too long to chamber a sized case. The crimp in factory brass is often "long" , but will chamber in that factory round because the case mouth is "long" crimped into the cannalure of the factory bullet.

Plus One...

[Outback32]

ok so how do i remedy that

[Outback32]

ive trimmed brass to 2.035. per my sierra manual

[Outback32]

I just took a fired untrimmed case measuring 2.040 it cycles fine. I took the case in the pic thats been through the sizer. its trimmed to 2.034 it is very hard to close. so i dont think its trim length. something's happening in the die to the neck I guess il call hornady tomorrow and see what they say

[skeettx]

Take a #3 shell holder and grind a bit off the top of the shell holder.
Seat the sizing die to the top of the modified shell holder.
Size the brass, see if the bolt will close easily.
Please report findings
Mike

p.s. what is the diameter of the expanding ball in the die?
You can also size the case with out the expanding ball in the die
and see if there is any difference

[HangFireW8]

I took the die apart and found the expander ball was chipped on the top. would this cause my problems
Yes! I concur with country gen and jsizemore, that chip can cause you problems. It pulls the neck & shoulder up, with the shoulder higher the brass won't chamber easily.

[Outback32]

the expander plug is .241. I took the plug out of the die it does the same thing. im going to try taking some off the shell holder and report back

[country gent]

When you full length size a case and squeeze it back down to size on the body the material has to go somewhere. Since the die body wont let it expand and the ram is blocking it going down the shoulder flows up. maybe only .001-.002 but enough to cause problems if not held down.
You appear to be very close to where you need to be on the shoulder now. If the die isn't in hard contact with the shell holder you might try turning it in another 1/8 -1/4 turn. If it is in hard contact then you may have to remove some from shell holder or bottom of die.

An easy way to do this is lay a piece of 220-240 grit emery paper on a flat surface and start working in a figure 8 pattern. a little light oil helps it to cut. Measure shell holder before starting and make note of this. Work on paper for 4-5 mins then clean and check progress. Either die or shell holder works but doing shell holder makes a dedicated shell holder, doing the bottom of the die allows most shell holders to work with it.

If you have another 308 size shell holder ( 243, 22-250, 308, 30-06, 45 acp) try it there are differences in them

[snowwolfe]

the expander plug is .241. I took the plug out of the die it does the same thing. im going to try taking some off the shell holder and report back

Removing a layer from the shell holder will only help if you screw the die down further. Do you have the die screwed down to the point it makes the press bind up when the stroke is complete?

[Outback32]

So I took the die to a friend who has a rcbs single stage. his is a cam over we adjusted the die in his press to a medium cam over. brass works perfectly. I have a lee breach lock it doesn't cam over. for the life of me I cant get the die to work in my press. im doing everything you guys reccomend. nothing works with my press. im so frustrated im about to say to heck with it.

[snowwolfe]

Sounds like your press is "sprung".
Two choices, send it back to Lee and ask them to fix it or buy a quality press and be done with it.
Forster Co-Ax, RCBS, or Hornady.

[Outback32]

how does a press get sprung. and im trying to get ahold of lee now. thank you

[Baltimoreed]

Reloading dies and chambers are cut by tools that wear. They have a max and min spec, when they wear enough and are no longer in spec they get replaced. I bought a new .25-06 Remington Sendero that would not work with my handloads, factory ammo was fine. And my first .25-06 was a Ruger 1V that worked fine with ammo made with those same rcbs dies. Contacted rcbs and sent them 3 factory cases fired in my rifle and my bogus sizer die. They sent me a sizer that sized brass that worked in my rifle. Undersized chamber and oversized dies but both were within specs. Just a thought.

[toallmy]

It's strange that when you try a fired piece of brass from your rifle it will chamber , but then after you full length resize it - it doesn't want to chamber . Am I missing something ?

[toallmy]

I took magic marker too a case. it is rubbing off the shoulder.233464 heres a pic

That is some pretty serous grinding on the shoulder .

[country gent]

I cant really see a press "sprung" so bad a die cant be adjusted to touch the shell holder. In most presses the sizing die has the lock ring thickness and a couple threads showing when set. Some lee dies ( pistol) were closer but I moved the lock ring to the under side of the tool head and was fine.

Is the insert tight and in place in the press frame? Are you getting the "Bayonet" lugs adjusted correctly to lock in and tighten on the shoulder? If you have another set of the adaptors I would try them or switch them around and see what the results are.

Over loading a press will spring it. A to heavy reforming operation or swaging bullets from harder lead and jackets, bottoming it out to hard. It takes a pretty heavy force to deform a frame in this way.

[skeettx]

OK, back to basics :
Sizing die, take off the locking ring
Lower the handle of the press
Screw in the die till it bottoms out on the ram
Raise the handle a small amount and screw the die in
1/8 turn more.
Size a case and see how it does
Please report findings
Mike

[jsizemore]

What lube are using on the brass?

[44magLeo]

There is nothing wrong with your press. Is the shell holder the same brand as the dies? Die makers make their dies and shell holders to work together. Other brands may not work well.
I have a Lee Challenger press. I use Lee dies and shell holders. The only problems I have had with them is on my 250 Savage. I built this on a Savage model 11 and a Adams & Bennett barrel. When I installed the barrel I got the head space a bit snug. Factory loads were ok but reloads a bit tight with some brass.
As some recommend I took the shell holder and ground down the shell holder till the tight cases chambered ok. I took it a bit farther just in case.
I keep this shell holder with those dies.
Your chamber maybe a bit snug on the headspace and your combo of dies and shell holder won't set the shoulder back enough.
I would recommend you grind the shell holder before I try anything else.
Leo

[jonp]

Try a set of RCBS Small Base Dies. I was having a problem with a rifle and Larry suggested that as a step. Problem solved.

Also, make sure to measure the neck with the bullet seated. Some brass is thicker than others. Resize, check OAL and trim if it needs it then seat a bullet a bit and slowly close the bolt. Pull the case and measure as the bullet should be pushed in. Measure, subtract .003 or so and try one.