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dale2242
12-31-2018, 11:41 AM
I have been casting since the 60s. Mostly for handguns.
I have cast 10s of thousands of handgun boolits and some for rifles.
I know the "experts" say to clean all of the copper fouling from the bore. I will be doing that as it seems to make sense.
I want to develop some cast loads in my rifles. The 218 Bee for now.
They say to shoot a number of cast loads to condition the bore before shooting groups.
Is this necessary? If so, how. many shots?
Is there a way to tell if the bore is conditioned to shoot groups?
Thanks, dale

ShooterAZ
12-31-2018, 11:50 AM
I don't know if there's a way to "tell". I just clean out the copper fouling and go shooting. After that, I just use Hoppes #9 and patches to swab the bore. Some say to never use a bore brush, I follow that line of advise. There's another group who say they never clean the bore, but I always do.

mdi
12-31-2018, 12:41 PM
I'm kinda "on the fence" on this subject as I've read from both sides. I read that prepping a barrel for shooting cast bullets starts with extra cleaning, getting every substance out of the barrel (copper) and having absolutely clean steel only on the ID of the barrel. And I've also read, by a gun writer that has edited a cast bullet handbook and has had many articles on bullet casting published, that he has often gone from jacketed to cast and back to jacketed with no more than normal cleaning, and had no ill effects. Besides, I've not been able to tell if there is any difference. I've tried "super cleaning" a couple times, getting the barrel down to nekkid steel, but perhaps my shooting style won't show any small improvement, if any, as I got no less barrel leading and no better accuracy...

Several of my guns have never had a jacketed bullet down the bore since I've owned them (I believe new guns are tested at the factory with jacketed ammo) so I have very little to compare and I'm doin' fine with my home cast bullets through my plain old shooters...

JSnover
12-31-2018, 12:56 PM
"Conditioned for groups"? I dunno. Besides cleaned and broken in (another argument in the making), shoot a group from a clean bore. Then another after a fouling shot. Another group after two foulers, etc. Your barrel will tell you when it's ready.

vagrantviking
12-31-2018, 01:03 PM
The precision rimfire crowd very often shoot a handful of "fouling" shots when switching ammo before doing serious group testing. There's probably something to it. Those guys certainly shoot well enough to see if there's an effect.

I shoot very little jacketed and it's usually just handguns where I switch back and forth so haven't worried too much about super cleaning. Can't even remember the last time I had an issue.

blackthorn
12-31-2018, 01:31 PM
"Conditioned for groups?" Shoot every shot as if for best group. If groups improve, MAYBE the gun has become "conditioned for groups". If groups do not improve, the gun was obviously as "conditioned" as it is going to get right from the get-go.

lightman
12-31-2018, 06:55 PM
I usually clean the barrel really well before changing bullets, either jacketed to cast or cast to jacketed.

MyFlatline
12-31-2018, 07:03 PM
I really don't see the issue. Copper Bullet, Copper Gas check..I have never worried about changing up and have never had any problems. If you read enough gun rags they will tell you to shoot jacketed to clean out lead. I truly believe it is blown out of proportion. Toss that out the window tho, if you have a leading issue.

Happy New Year All

HangFireW8
12-31-2018, 07:08 PM
When switching to cast, I clean the barrel well, but not stripping 100% copper, unless it happens to have a real copper fouling problem.

Then I put my current lube (or NRA 50/50) on a patch and run it through the bore, make sure the chamber is clean and dry, and it's ready to go.

Hick
12-31-2018, 11:00 PM
I clean the bore annually whether it needs it or not. Between shooting sessions I run a bore snake through the bore and check it with a bore light to make sure there is no leading. I switch back and forth between cast and jacketed depending on what I feel like shooting any given day. I usually go shooting twice each week. My 30-30 hasn't had its annual cleaning yet, but yesterday it was still hitting the smallest gongs I could find at 100 yards. I don't think it matters fur fun shooting-- though the precision shooters might have a different situation.

44Blam
01-02-2019, 01:07 AM
I figured that conditioning a bore for cast meant shooting 50 or so full power copper rounds to smooth out any little burrs and then use some copper cleaning agent to defoul the barrel...

Peregrine
01-02-2019, 01:51 AM
I of course, have also heard that you need to remove copper fouling before shooting cast but I think that's assuming heavy fouling and a long time since you last cleaned it. If you're having a leading issue certainly a thorough cleaning is in order one way or another. I haven't had any issues switching back and forth between cast and jacketed without any special cleaning in between, albeit without huge round counts yet.

Actually my barrels seem to get much cleaner the more I shoot cast in them, I suspect it may be the dracon filler I use acting like a built in patch with every shot. :p

winelover
01-02-2019, 07:53 AM
I really don't see the issue. Copper Bullet, Copper Gas check..I have never worried about changing up and have never had any problems. If you read enough gun rags they will tell you to shoot jacketed to clean out lead. I truly believe it is blown out of proportion. Toss that out the window tho, if you have a leading issue.

Happy New Year All


My sentiments, exactly.

Winelover

trapper9260
01-02-2019, 08:08 AM
I had prepped a new barrel to shoot cast and after shooting 10 rounds I clean the barrel and did that till I had 100 round in it and I had keep checking the barrel to see the rifling and also what it show on paper of the groups. After all done my groups close up and the rifling had clear up and shiny.

richhodg66
01-02-2019, 09:38 AM
I figured that conditioning a bore for cast meant shooting 50 or so full power copper rounds to smooth out any little burrs and then use some copper cleaning agent to defoul the barrel...

I recently bought a brand new rifle as a dedicated cast shooter and pondered this. Been loading up small batches of jacketed loads and shooting ten or so then cleaning, I'll stop at about 100 rounds and clean it and start cast loads through it.

Not sure if this is right, but it seems some jacketed might be good to smooth it up, I had some laying around anyway and figured if nothing else, it would give me an idea of what the rifle is capable of. I don't shoot many jacketed bullets anymore and I shoot a lot of different things. I've never seen anything definitive about barrel break in for cast, but figure copper fouling can't be good, so I'll clean it with some stuff designed to remove copper when the time comes. More than 99% of my gun cleaning any more is with Ed's Red.

WILCO
01-02-2019, 10:15 AM
Was told it doesn't matter.

JSnover
01-02-2019, 10:50 AM
I have heard of groups getting a little loose when switching from copper to cast, even after cleaning but after a couple rounds they settled back down to normal. Can't say I've seen it myself.

Texas by God
01-02-2019, 12:02 PM
I switch back and forth without cleaning on my rifles that use both type bullets. On my dedicated boolit shooters, I just load and shoot. Hopefully they get broke in along the way. I generally don't clean my bores unless they get rained in. YMMV.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

blackthorn
01-02-2019, 01:40 PM
I switch back and forth without cleaning on my rifles that use both type bullets. On my dedicated boolit shooters, I just load and shoot. Hopefully they get broke in along the way. I generally don't clean my bores unless they get rained in. YMMV.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

When out in the rain, or bush, a strip of electrician's tape over the muzzle keeps out any type of unwanted stuff.

Mr_Sheesh
01-03-2019, 02:15 AM
Also could use a finger cot (first aid thing used for finger splinting and water protection, sorta like a miniature condom) for muzzle protection; Those shouldn't act as a muzzle blockage but COULD affect POI potentially. I haven't tried it, though.

richhodg66
01-03-2019, 04:45 AM
For my muzzle loader, I use a small piece of saran wrap rubber banded around the muzzle in such a way that it doesn't interfere with the front sight. No worries about it being a muzzle obstruction and doesn't seem to affect anything upon firing.

LongRangeAir
01-03-2019, 05:49 AM
IN shooting big bore airguns, I have found that a typical barrel will lead fairly quickly. I often will fire lap the barrel with the Wheeler kit, then hand polish the bore with flitz.

In doing so, I not only see a marked improvement in scores, but can shoot a couple hundred cast before a single patch is needed.

KnifeMaker

GregLaROCHE
01-03-2019, 09:56 AM
I really don't see the issue. Copper Bullet, Copper Gas check..I have never worried about changing up and have never had any problems. If you read enough gun rags they will tell you to shoot jacketed to clean out lead. I truly believe it is blown out of proportion. Toss that out the window tho, if you have a leading issue.






Happy New Year All

I’ve always wondered too about copper gas checks and supposedly needing to have all the copper out of the bore.

winelover
01-04-2019, 09:18 AM
I have access to a Hawkeye borescope. Regularly, check the bore of my CZ Scorpion chambered in 9mm, rather than cleaning. Started off shooting with a couple hundred FMJ factory loads. Switched over to cast, PB and GC. Went to plated bullets and back to cast. Always checking the bore, before and after switching.

After thousands of rounds, I discovered that PB bullets, at carbine velocities, produce very minor leading. Disappears with GC designs, even with PB aluminum checks. Plated bullets (Berry's thick plate) leave no copper fouling. Much ado about nothing.

Now, I only clean the action, leaving the barrel alone. Pretty much the same, with my other rifles that shoot cast. If it ain't broke, not looking for a fix.

Winelover

greenjoytj
01-07-2019, 11:01 PM
If caught out in a heavy down pour I think water could migrate past the closed bolt, enter the chamber and run down the bore. Having the muzzle sealed by tape or condom might trap a lot of water in the bore. It would need to be a heavy down pour.

Also maybe firing some handloadsmade with with one of the CFE propellants Hodgdon’s sells. CFE = Copper Fouling Eraser
It may assist in removing old embedded copper along will the appropriate bore solvents.

JonB_in_Glencoe
01-07-2019, 11:17 PM
I have been casting since the 60s. Mostly for handguns.
I have cast 10s of thousands of handgun boolits and some for rifles.
I know the "experts" say to clean all of the copper fouling from the bore. I will be doing that as it seems to make sense.
I want to develop some cast loads in my rifles. The 218 Bee for now.
They say to shoot a number of cast loads to condition the bore before shooting groups.
Is this necessary? If so, how. many shots?
Is there a way to tell if the bore is conditioned to shoot groups?
Thanks, dale
I imagine the answer may vary due to the type of lube, and probably the barrel itself too. Has the barrel had many rounds (any type) through it? Is it brand new or near new?

I'd treat a clean barrel with a clean patch impregnated with your lube. Then, I'd shoot a dozen rounds, in a fairly quick procession to heat up the barrel. Then I'd run a dry patch through the barrel and start shooting groups, the groups will tell you if you are there. I'd bet it only takes 2 or 3 rounds, but suggested a dozen just to be sure.

crankycalico
01-08-2019, 01:48 AM
Isnt Harris the fellow who advocates NOT scrubbing out a barrel after using lead, but to simply patch it "clean" after shooting to allow the lead to stay in the pitsin the bores of grubby barrels?

David2011
01-08-2019, 02:20 AM
Seems like it was on "The Gun Guys" on Outdoor Channel that demonstrated putting tape over a muzzle. They used duct tape IIRC and it did not affect the POI or act as a barrel obstruction.

Three44s
01-08-2019, 02:50 AM
Most of my cast has been with revolvers, and they have all been guns that I bought used. Than meant I had no control over their former lives.

That said I have had my best results by cleaning them fairly well upon switching them over to lead.

My regime is to clean with a good solvent and JB Bore paste and then finishing with Corrosion X.

When the prospective gun quits leading, the bore paste gets a holiday.

Three44s

blackthorn
01-08-2019, 02:12 PM
I have been using the tape over the muzzle for over 40 years. Water is not the only thing that can get down your barrel. Many years ago, after a day in the bush, we returned to the cabin and began to wipe down our rifles. My hunting partner ran a cleaning rod with patch from the breech end and had to force out a 7 inch twig that had found its way into his bore. I have used the tape ever since.