9MM mold

[Lonestar22]

Hello,
Does anyone have experience casting and reloading the RCBS #82062, 124gr RNGC bullet? It looks to be a good possibility for shooting cast bullets in my Hi Power, in the standard velocity range.
Thanks for your time.
Regards,
Tim

[StarMetal]

Tim,

I don't have any experience with that particular RCBS bullet, BUT I have alot of experience with the RCBS Truncated Cone nose bullet in the same weight range. In fact I have a Hi Power too and it shoots that bullet in 1.5 inchs or less at 25 yards easy. Feed excellent too. It casts very easy and fills out well also. I have fed it with no hitches in various 9mm's including a WWII P38 Walther. Also have used it in a 38/45 custom barrel in my 1911 in which case it shot into 3/4 in at 25 yards. Very good bullet in my opinion.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Like Joe, I have not tried this bullet, but I have an NEI mold that throws a 120 grain bullet that is a cross between a semi-wadcutter and a truncated nose. Sized .357 this bullet has been a steller performer in my 1913 DWM Luger, several Hi-Powers, a P-38, a Berretta 92 and several Smith and Wessons.

For whatever reason, NEI does not offer this bullet any more. I bought it new old stock from a store in El Paso in 1984. Walt Melander had a habit of dropping some of his best bullets from his catalog and I never understood why. I asked him why on several occasions and just got the run around and never got an answer. Who know? Walt was a master mold maker but squirrely as all get out.

I try and keep the velocity in the 1 to 1.1K fps range and use medium burning powders like Unique and AA5.

Reliability has always been 100 percent and accuracy is whatever the pistol has to give. Groups are always as good or better than good condum loads.

All of this is to day that 9mm autopistols with conventional rifling in the barrels do well with cast bullets, contrary to something you read in print. I see no reason why the RN RCBS mold in question should not do well.

[robertbank]

I have to echo the above. I shoot a Lyman truncated 124 gr bullet out of 1911, CZ85 and Hi-Power. All guns shoot accurately with the cast lead bullet and experience no leading unless I push the vel. past 1200 fps. My favourite load to date has been 4.7 gr Unique which usually gives me 1100 -1150 fps depending on the gun. Any more than that and I have experienced leading.
I have gone to a hard lube, Jakes, with better results than I had using soft Lyman lube.

Stay Safe

[9.3X62AL]

The 9mm can fool ya--don't assume it has a groove diameter at .355". My SIG-Sauers both mic at fat .356", so they are fed boolits sized to .357". Harder alloys and softer lubes have been my recipe for success in this caliber's fast twist barrel environment, also true of the 40 S&W.

No experience with the pattern you mention, but I have 4 different molds for the 9mm--2 RN, 2 TC--all feed well and pose no leading problems if dimensional issues are addressed correctly.

[pdgraham]

..............
I have gone to a hard lube, Jakes, with better results than I had using soft Lyman lube.

Stay Safe

Which Lyman soft lubes were you using... ???

I'm currently using Lyman Super Moly room temp lube on 115 gr 9mm.. I've only got 100 loaded and I haven't tried them yet.... Am I wasting my time???? Should I be going to hard lube in 9mm??

[9.3X62AL]

I really think that boolit fit--then metallurgy--then lube type are the critical elements in 9mm accuracy and leading prevention, in order of importance. When you slug a 9mm barrel, you are likely to be surprised at the outcome. Throats in by SIG barrels are both almost .357", and grooves are over .356".

Adding to the fun is the way-too-fast twist rate of 1-10" in most 9mm barrels, and relatively little of the boolit sidewall engages the barrel wall. The straight-sided truncated cone designs are better than the RN designs in this respect. Containing all that high pressure gas behind that boolit takes every "edge" you can grab--diameter, boolit alloy toughness, lube integrity, sidewall engagment. Taracorp (92/6/2) alloy at .357", Javelina Alox lube, and moderate velocities (under 1200, usually 1100 FPS) combine to do good work in 9mm for me.

[Buckshot]

.............Probably a very similar slug is the Lee 125gr RNPB. Limited testing in my Witness 38 Super showed quite a bit of potential. Had only loaded light loads using a 10lb recoil spring. Used W231, Bullseye, and Red Dot in limited charge spreads, with velocities in the 900 - 1025 fps area. Best groups (5 rnds ea) at 25 yards benched ran 2" or a bit less for the most part.

I believe that one primary issue of great importance is the very short parallel bearing surface. There is only a narrow solid band below the LG and first up, even before shooting it is seating it straight in the case. It is important that the seater stem fits the slug well, and that the boolit is placed as striaght as possible in the flared caseneck.

It is very easy for the boolit to get seated cattywumpus and that doesn't help anything. Compared to the 9x19's case taper the 38 Super case is straight walled. With a mild flare on the thicker R-P brass in my Lee dieset, the flare will drag slightly on the diewall. I think this helps center the case (won't do this in a Lyman seater die, nor will thinner WW brass in the Lee die).

The Lee RN seater plug is a generic design as are most. A better fit was given by placing a dab of lube in the seater and then a small bit of Saranwrap is laid over that. The boolit nose then forms a well fitting pocket. The Saranwrap is stuck in the seater by the lube.

I'm sure you already know that since everyone and his 2nd cousin produces 9x19 brass, casewall thickness varies all over the place. By checking you can sometimes size the boolit an extra thou larger (with thinner brass) and still have sufficient room for easy chambering and boolit release.

..............Buckshot

[robertbank]

When I boought my RCBS Lubrimatic it came with about 8 tubes of Lyman/Ideal Black Alox lube. It was OK but since going to the Jakes red lube I eliminated leading in my .45acp loads. My 9MM loads really never leaded much in my HiPower, CZ 85 or STI Trojan but just think the hard load works better particularily as you approach 1100 fps which is where I am at with my 125 gr boolits in 9MM.

I suspect you will be OK but if you do have a heater on your lubricator I think the harder lube works better but others may differ.

You can reach Jakes at: jhilde@aol.com

10 sticks cost me $15. US which I thought was a prettty fair price. He has three different sticks and you can mix & match if you want to. I have not tried his Purple lube yet but will. He is out of Peoria, Illinois. I apolgise if I spelled the state wrong. Good guy to deal with I have found. shipped up here which was nice.

The Red worked well in my 30-06 as well.

Stay Safe

[Lonestar22]

Hello,
I appreciate all the input. There is much to consider when reloading for 9MM. As the bore on my BHP measures .356", sizing to .357" is in order.
I will be casting from WW's, with a 2% Tin adder, and water quenching the boolits. This I believe will give me a boolit of sufficient hardness.
You have offered different ideas on lubes, but at this point I am considering the following; Lyman Moly lube or Lee Liquid Alox. I am not a big fan of hard lubes, i.e. commercial bullet lube. I feel those lubes were formulated to insure the lube stays in place, when boolits are shipped when the temperature is warm.
I have have good success with liquid Alox, and would like to know your feedback if the following is an acceptable procedure.
1. Alox boolits.
2. Seat gas check, or should this be done prior to applying the Alox.
3. Size boolit, using Lee push through sizer.
4. Alox boolits a second time.
Is this procedure over doing it? I am looking to run in the 1150fps to 1175fps velocity range, which falls within standard velocity factory ammunition.
I guess I should have mentioned this point first, but I am looking to build practice ammunition, to mirror my self-defense factory ammunition.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to your replys.
Regards,
Tim

[StarMetal]

Sounds fine except you don't need a gaschecked bullet.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Lonestar pm'ed me as to why I wouldn't buy that 9mm mould which takes a gas check . I thought I would reply here so you guys can chime in.

Lonestar, you don't need a gascheck on a 9mm unless you plan on really pushing this bullet to extreme velocities. That 38/45 conversion I have can and did push that truncated cone nose RCBS that I have to extreme velocities and with no leading. Most 9mm loads just don't need a gas check. Ask the guys here. Guys would you buy a gascheck 9mm mould over a non checked mould? Another thing Lonestar is that gaschecks are expensive, about on par with primers. They also add another step to reloading. Rifles on the other hand need them in most instances. A rifle bullet is exposed to more powder burning, a longer time in the barrel compared to a handgun, and more temperature and pressure for the powder usually, plus their velocities are generally higher.

Joe

[Buckshot]

.............I would think that since you can push a PB slug in the 357 at 1200 fps easily, you'd be able to do the same in the 9mm. While pressure to do so would be greater in the smaller 9mm I don't think it enough more to warrent a GC. I have shot the Lyman 147gr TCBB (153gr ACWW) from my 38 Super at 1260 fps with zero leading issues.

...............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

I've seen diagrams listing the RCBS 9mm GC boolit, and until recently had a Lyman 45 ACP/230 grain GC mold. I think these were intended for the 9mm and 45 Win Mag calibers. I've run boolits past 1200 FPS in my 9's, and once the dimensional poetry was interpreted I had no leading problems.

[Lonestar22]

Hello to All,
I appreciate all of you taking the time to respond to my questions.
I acquired the 9MM GC mold in a trade some time ago. Recently I became the owner of a Hi Power, and thought the BHP and the cast boolit would be a grand match. Since the boolit is of the gas check type, I thought it would be necessary to use a GC. From all that you're telling me, this is not the case. So, no gas checks for me -lol. Again thanks for your time.
Regards,
Tim

[StarMetal]

Ksco,

You'd think that Glock would change over to conventional rifling after hearing and knowing about the problem their pistol has even thought they don't want you shooting reloads or cast bullets ( but we know they say that for liability reasons). Why do they use the rifling they use? Do they think there are beneficial reasons?

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Tim--

I think we were collectively unclear--a have had ZERO luck shooting castings designed for gas checks without the little copper cups in place. Other folks report better luck, but not for me. My earlier posts reflected that a gas check DESIGNED bullet was not really necessary for the 9mm Luger cartridge.

Hope that un-muddies the water a bit.

[StarMetal]

Yeah, I was waiting for someone else to chime in on use of a gascheck bullet without the check. For one thing it definately doesn't work good on rifle bullets and honestly I haven't tried it with pistol bullets, but it's not a good idea. Your best bet is to sell the mould and get that truncated cone RCBS one which is plain base. Put it up for sell here first, someone might want it.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Yeah, that 9mm GC might just be The Boolit for a 357 SIG--if someone wants to rassle the dinky case necks and other fun elements of bottle-necked self-loading pistol rounds.

[Char-Gar]

Just another voice in agreement.. I use a plain base bullet cast from air cooled WW plus 1.25% tin. The lube is a 60/40 mix of beeswax and Vasaline.

If you have a gas check mold, then use gas checks..but if you are buying a new mold then buy a plain base mold. The gas check bullet will work just fine, but add unncessary cost.

If you find you are having accuracy problems in you 9mm, then make certain to use only one makes of cases and segregate them by length. There is allot of slip and slide in 9mm case length and best accuracy will come when the cases are the same or near the same length.

[StarMetal]

Charger brings up a good point about 9mm brass. I think it has the largest variance in brass dimensions of anything I've ever reloaded for. There is a large difference in thickness from brand to brand. From my experience I find the foreign brands to be the thickess. I have also found foreign brands to have the smallest primer flash holes too, in some instances too small!!! If you are after accuracy then do as Charger suggests and sort by brand and lot.

Joe

[Lonestar22]

Hello,
If shooting a 9MM GC boolit without the gas check in place could prove to be inaccurate, what if the GC grove were removed from the mold? A machinist buddy of mine could remove the GC area, making a plain based boolit.
Await your comments.
Regards,
Tim

[slughammer]

If you have a gas check mold, then use gas checks..but if you are buying a new mold then buy a plain base mold. The gas check bullet will work just fine, but add unncessary cost.


Charger really said it well here so I'll just copy his post.

Why don't you just try it out "as is" with some gas checks? Do you have some gas checks?

And yes, the shank can be removed by a machinist.

[robertbank]

Man you got me thinking. Here is my dilemma. I shoot regularily the following nines:
MKe. 1 HiPower
Mke. 111 HiPower
CZ 85
STI Trojan
Norinco 1911 9MM
Inglis HiPower

Now the chances of all six barrels being the same bore diameter are highly unlikely. To date I have been sizing to .355. What would be your opinion for a compromise? Do I size larger, say .357 or stay where I am? Sizing different boolits for each gun is not realistic. Most of my shooting is defensive pistol so ranges are not all that great. I am shooting about 300 rounds per week out of my nines, weather permitting.

As to the lube question. I switched to hard lube and cured my leading problems with my .45acp. Whether or not it is better or not over soft lubes for me is academic in that switching from one to the other is just not practical. The hard lube certainly works for me and it certainly did cure my leading problems with the .45acp. Leading in the first 1/2 in of an auto usually speaks to lube problems and the problem certainly disappeared when I made the switch.

I agree with others regarding the gas check and the 9MM. Certainly will work but really is not that necessary. My go to load of 4.7 gr Unique under 124 gr Lyman lead truncated bullet boots along just fine at around 1,150 FPS with no leading. For my kind of shooting faster just isn't all that better - harder on gun and uses more powder. :-D Paper bad guys don't know the difference - come to think of it real bad guys wouldn't either. LOL

Stay Safe

[Vegas Vince]

I have several 9MM, two of which are on my ccw. I shoot the ccw guns every day. I do not use gs. I shoot at an indoor range, so I use a 102 gr Lee boolit to punch holes in paper. My go to load is 4.3 gr. Unique. This is about 1300 fps. I use Lee lube and have no leading problems.
I had some Bullseye laying around. So I loaded several hundred round starting at 4.2 gr and working up to 4.5 gr. Max in manual I have is 4.4 gr at 1395 fps. So 4.5 gr should be over 1400 fps. Good load but I did get some leading in the last 1/2 in. of the barrel. I do not have a chrongraph so all velocity are calculated by computer and manuals.

I sluged all the barrels and they are .355 or .356 and I size to .356. I don't know if that helps any one, but that what I do.

[dahermit]

I use one of the RCBS 125 Gas Check moulds. The reason I use the gas check is that I have had a history of leading in several different 9mm using the plain base cast bullets. The gas checked bullet lets me shoot the bullets as cast without quenching or heat treating (ww + 2% tin) Inasmuch as most of my 9mm shooting is done at my metal bowling pin set up, at bowling pin distances, the as cast bullits are more than accurate enough. Also, I prefer the round nose bullet to the truncated cone bullet for its handling qualities while reloading...I find it very difficult to pickup the small truncated bullet with my fingers; it seems like I cannot get a firm hold on it. It is irritating when I want to produce a lot of loads fast on my Dillion 550B. But as the other posts indicate; different spokes for different folks.
regards,
dahermit

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome aboard, Hermit. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one annoyed by "hard to handle" boolit types. I would rate Lyman #257420 as the bugbear for me--too small to grab both from the sizer and a little dicey when seating, too.

[robertbank]

Interested in your post in that you are getting about 300 fps more out of your Unique loads using 4.3 gr over my 4.7 gr Unique. My question is what Chrony are you using and what gun?

I found 4.3 gr to be quite light and prone to jams in my STI Trojan and CZ 85. Worked OK in my HiPower.

Stay Safe

Bob

[Lloyd Smale]

ill agree here to if its designed for a check use one!