Most accurate 44 mag design?

[fatelvis]

I load 90% of my 44mags light/medium in my 6.5" 629 for casual target use. I've only used Keith style boolits up until now, and am wondering if RF or other designs tend to be more accurate in your revolver. Please share your experiences, I'm curious to see if the Keith is better for game than target, or good as an all round choice. Thanks guys!

[Tatume]

There are two favorite designs, the Keith SWC and the LFN round flat nosed design. Both can be very accurate, and both are excellent hunting bullets.

Some claim a tad better accuracy for the LFN, but I can't detect it. Best five-shot groups at 100 yards with my 8-3/8" S&W PC Model 629 are sub two-inch with 240 grain Keith bullets from Accurate Molds #43-240K mold.

There is also the claim that the LFN is accurate to longer ranges, but again, I can't detect it. I don't shoot past 100 yards with revolvers.

Of course, the key to accuracy with any bullet style in revolvers is chamber throat fit. My best guns are set up to have minimal clearance between bullet diameter and throats . This usually involves custom throating and custom sizing dies. My 44 Rem Mag guns are set to 0.4315" throat diameter, and I size bullets with a 0.4310" die. Now, I don't really know how good that fourth digit is, but I do know my bullets sized in that die are a very snug fit in my chamber throats. Guns set up this way shoot well.

[gwpercle]

Looking for an accurate boolit for casual target use ?
Then take a look at the N.O.E. web site at #432-237-WC-PB-BL4.
This design was created to fill your need... I love it.
Cast with a hollow point and it's a wicked hunting boolit.
Gary

[mdi]

I have been shooting my home cast 44 bullets in my 5, 44 Magnums for about 25 years (sized to fit). Lyman 429421 are pretty good but for me, I've found Ranch Dog's RNFP to be very accurate in my guns. My Puma likes the 265 gr. a bit better than the 240 gr bullet, but both are pretty accurate. I read an article by Venturino and he states his findings that a plain old round nose is probably the most accurate design, it just lacks in "target effect". I'm pretty satisfied with my 3 choices...

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use two boolits in my.44's Specs and Mags. .429421 and 429244

The 429421 is used in all .44's and is probably the best all around boolit for the .44 ever concocted. I use the 429244 in my Rifle as it has a gas check and can take 1600 fps+ velocities. People will complain that the rifles don't feed these boolits well, to whit I say put a chamfer on the chamber mouth and they will feed right.

I powder coat these boolits now and that eliminates leading completely.

I have several other boolit moulds for my .44's they go mostly unused as the two above are the most accurate and do the job the best. Other moulds are 429215 GC, Lee 429-240GC, a 190 gr SWC which has dropped perfect boolits from the first fill,,, none of which go anywhere near the POA, and several others I can't remember right now.

The good moulds are both Mihec Moulds which cast over sized and allow you to size as needed and give the option of 3 different HP's and a solid which is what I cast mostly.

I haven't found any boolit type that performs better than these either in accuracy or terminal performance.

Randy

[dkonrai]

There are two favorite designs, the Keith SWC and the LFN round flat nosed design. Both can be very accurate, and both are excellent hunting bullets.

Some claim a tad better accuracy for the LFN, but I can't detect it. Best five-shot groups at 100 yards with my 8-3/8" S&W PC Model 629 are sub two-inch with 240 grain Keith bullets from Accurate Molds #43-240K mold.

There is also the claim that the LFN is accurate to longer ranges, but again, I can't detect it. I don't shoot past 100 yards with revolvers.

Of course, the key to accuracy with any bullet style in revolvers is chamber throat fit. My best guns are set up to have minimal clearance between bullet diameter and throats . This usually involves custom throating and custom sizing dies. My 44 Rem Mag guns are set to 0.4315" throat diameter, and I size bullets with a 0.4310" die. Now, I don't really know how good that fourth digit is, but I do know my bullets sized in that die are a very snug fit in my chamber throats. Guns set up this way shoot well.Tell me how I can shoot, my 629, and get 2 inch groups at 100 yards?
I feel lucky to get my rounds on paper at that range. I am shooting a 629 in 6.5 inch open sights.

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[Walks]

I've been shooting the Lyman#429421 cast of #2, sized .430 in various RUGERS & S&W's for 40+yrs. Some 25yd groups have measured 1 1/2".

My COLT SAA's & NF's favor .428dia. I used to have a NF 7 1/2" in .44SPL that once put 5rds into a 1 1/4" round group.

My mold was made in the 1970's. I've also had good luck with LYMAN'S # 42798, #429244, #429215 and the RCBS # 44-245-KT.

[Larry Gibson]

Overall, in revolvers within normal revolver range usage, I've also not found a lot of "accuracy" difference between RN, SWC and WFN designs. Any difference is mostly attributable to the alloy, powder used and pressure level. Most often the most accurate magnum level bullet is one that is GC'd. I currently have 6 moulds on hand for bullet choice to use in my four 44s; 429-200-RF, 429215, 429360, TL430-240-SWC, 44-250-K and 429640HP. I have used the 429421 and 429244s with equal success. I've come to not need any bullet over 275 gr though I have tried the heavier ones and they do well also.

Actually, they all shoot well for me. The intended use is the criteria I use to choose which to use.

[mdi]

First lets rapidly deal with reality.
How well can one shoot? Now I am not talking about from the benchrest all the time. I am talking about across the spectrum of shooting. From the bench, kneeling, standing offhand, standing just using some form if improvised wrist rest like a low limb etc.. I am sure you you get my point.
If you are an exceptional shooter, say a high master class NRA bullseye shooter you may tell subtile differences in the accuracy of different bullets but then again maybe not. Many will come on a shooting forum with descriptions of their groups from the benchrest but rarely ever of their offhand or less than dead steady rest shooting. Unless they shot that one in a blue moon group.
Many shoot from the benchrest most of the time looking for that elusive one hole group producing load.
Could they shoot well enough to tell the difference in a 1 inch grouping load and a 1.5 inch grouping load at 25 yards benchrest shooting when shooting offhand or from a less than dead steady rest positions at any distance?
Most I seriously doubt it. Ive watch shooters with varied abilities over many years to know beyond any reasonable doubt they it is very unlikely.
Is it impossible, no, but not very likely. Can they luck up and shoot some unbelieveable group or two once in a great while, yes. We all have. Its not what one can do once in a blue moon it what one can do on the average.
I KNOW, I KNOW statisticians, that one doesnt shoot an average group but even the statisticians should be smart enough to know what I mean.
Now if one has fun looking for that elusive one holer group I say go for it. But should one find a good load and then hone ones skill shooting from varying positions rather than staying on the bench experimenting all the time?
Then can one outshoot a given bullet well enough to be able to tell the difference when not on the bench?
That is the question. And a very good question.


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

I used to shoot my 44 a lot, but I'm wasn't professional/competitor level. I used to shoot my 44s at an indoor range, offhand. My good repeatable groups (with a good load and bullet) was around 1" @50' +3/8"/-1/8". (Dan Wesson 44H w/6" bbl.). Same powder charges, primers and brass but with different bullets would produce up to 4" at the same distance. Was your opening statement meant to disparage the OP or the intent of this thread?

[fatelvis]

No offense taken 44, in fact, I appreciate your reality based input. Honestly, I enjoy handloading and experimenting as much or more, than actually shooting!
Sometimes asking around about other people’s experiences acts as a short cut to my load development. I know, I know, it shows laziness. Lol


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[Eutectic45]

The reality is the ammunition dispersion is, with pistols, only a SMALL part of the total group size. The biggest part is the person on the trigger.
That said, we would always like to make the ammunition dispersion as small as possible.
In revolver bullets I look for:
1. A full diameter band ahead of the crimp groove. This should be wide enough to extend into the cylinder throat. This centers the bullet and is important to accuracy.
2. A meplat to suit your use. A wide meplat like a wadcutter gives maximum impact on game but is inaccurate over 50 yards. A medium meplat like 429421 is accurate to long range, with good game performance. A round nose like Lyman 429383 gives the best trajectory and wind-bucking but poor game performance.
3. A wadcutter shoulder is only good for paper punching. A RNFP and SWC with the same meplat diameter have the same game performance.

In 44 a bullet about 250 grains seems to work best all-around.
I currently use Accurate 432 249H and Accurate 432 257H which cover my uses.
232702232703

[Peregrine]

This thread is relevant to my interests since I am about to undergo setting up to cast and shoot .44

I only have experience loading cast in rifle calibers, mainly 8x57 but have procured a Lone Eagle in .444 marlin with the purpose of having a novel way of getting into launching big bore cast.

I'm fairly certain that I'll be ordering a mold from Accurate but am having trouble deciding on a specific mold. My reloading at the moment is all done with either H4895 or 2400 in my inexperienced quick research both should be excellent for launching cast out of that platform.

I was drawn to a full wadcutter like the 43-250z in particular because I gas check everything presently and it gave me room to experiment with leaving them on or off.

But I have access to longer range, and will certainly try to push distance as far as I can land hits on steel...and I have large pieces every 100m or so out to 500. So a SWC is probably a better fit.


Any and all advice/anecdotes/old wives tales are welcome and encouraged. Like I said this is my first step into big bore cast for pistols, and I plan on having and shooting much .44 out of various things in the future so let's get me off on the right foot. :)

I want to throw bullets on the largish side but for the sake of my wrists we probably should stick to 250ish grain range as opposed to trying to launch 300+ grain monsters out of this thing.

[murf205]

I load 90% of my 44mags light/medium in my 6.5" 629 for casual target use. I've only used Keith style boolits up until now, and am wondering if RF or other designs tend to be more accurate in your revolver. Please share your experiences, I'm curious to see if the Keith is better for game than target, or good as an all round choice. Thanks guys!
Here goes my take. I have a S&W 686 6" with a 2x scope and I started it off with some 180 gr LBT RNFP gas check boolits with a dose of H110. Right from the get go I got some 40 yd groups from the rest that were in the "yahoo" zone. I thought I had found the ultimate load for that gun and I bought into the premise of round (or semi round) nose boolits self centering in the forcing cone. This baby was stackin' em tight. I had Tom at Accurate Molds build a 3 cav 158 gr RNFP so I could have a lighter load for casual use and it shot lights out too. Sooooo, one day while loading some 150 gr Lyman Keith style boolits for my K38, I decided to load some for my 686 and drove them in the 1300 fps range and some light (850 fps) loads. Well, whadaya know, they made groups just as small or smaller that the RN. What does this prove, nothing except that my old Smith is a shooter and I got lucky. I have never seen an inaccurate revolver that RN or RF boolits would cure it's ills.
Now as far as the game question, cast and shoot Elmer's SWC and live happy. It kills whitetails like a bolt of lightning and takes the squeal out of some big hogs. In my 44's, it cuts a thumb sized hole going in and about a 50 cent piece hole going out with lots of damage inside and it breaks shoulders and ribs coming and going. I've said it before and I'll say it again here, Elmer Keith got it right.

[softpoint]

The Lyman 429649, heavyweight has been slightly more accurate in several of my guns than any other bullet I have tried, and that includes the Keith designs, the Ranchdogs, and several others. I don't use the bullet much, though, as it's weight seems to be a bit of a waste of alloy for most of what I use my .44's for. It weighs 340 grains cast out of the alloy I normally use.

[Thumbcocker]

Ask your gun.

[osteodoc08]

I have not personally found a difference between LFN, WFN or Keith designs to shoot better or worse than the other. What I have noticed is that they all prefer one powder load over another even if in a similar given weight. I’ve shot a lot of Keith’s over the years but prefer the “look” of the WFN. So there you have it, just like in women, it comes down to look/preferred profile.

[rintinglen]

I personally found in my Ruger Redhawk that the most accurate plain base boolit when bench rested and loaded to mid-rang levels was the 429-383. But Gas checked boolits, such as the 429-244 or RCBS 429-240 Sil were more consistent with fewer fliers.

[stinjie]

using a 4 inch model 29,the Lee 200gr rnfp 6 cavity has let me take me take cash at our local events.High volume casting,relatively less lead needed per round,super accurate.

[fatelvis]

I see a couple of you guys state that the GC designs tend to group better than the PB boolits. Do the rest of you agree with this observation?

[Maven]

fe, I generally agree about PB v. GC'd CB's. but let me explain. GC'd CB's allow tighter grouping at higher velocities than PB CB's. E.g., I have several PB CB's for my .44mag. (both Ly. 429421 & RCBS' version of it; Lee TL truncated cone CB; and a Belding & Mull ~269gr. WC), all of which are almost 1 big hole accurate from a rest @ 25 yd. from my Ruger SBH (10.5" bbl.) if I keep velocity ~1,050 fps. I size all except the Lee TL's to .431" and use 8gr. Unique (thrown). Beyond that, i.e., as you reach ~1,200 fps (e.g., 12gr. Blue Dot), a GC'd design would be better for tight groups. Also, discomfort sharply rises at that velocity/loading.

[Tatume]

I shoot plain-based bullets at 1400 fps with extremely good accuracy out to 100 yards. Bullets from my Accurate 43-240K mold will outshoot any of my gas checked bullets. I believe this is because the bases are extremely sharp and uniform, slightly more so than Hornady gas checks.

[murf205]

I see a couple of you guys state that the GC designs tend to group better than the PB boolits. Do the rest of you agree with this observation?

Like Thumbcocker said, let your gun tell you what it likes. I have a Ruger SRH that shoots either really well and a 4" 629 that much prefers GC'ed boolits, a model 24 S&W that has to have GC's and an old 44 Hand Ejector that prefers pb boolits. The 629 and the mod 24 have the newer style of S&W rifling, so that may be why they need a GC to shoot their best. Your 629 may be like mine, in which case, I would lean towards GC boolits. If you are thinking of a new mold, you could buy a 4 cav with 2 of each design.

[bobthenailer]

I have five 44 mag moulds all are very accurate from quite a few guns but the best accuracy is with the RCBS 240gr gc sil bullet which weighs lubed & sized 265gr with a softer alloy than linotype

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tatume just made the point about the back ends of his PB boolits being sharp and clean. That is the key to the whole issue.

As Elmer said; "the back end is the steering end."

No reason why a PB boolit shouldn't shoot as well as a GC boolit except if the trailing edge isn't perfect. with a gas check the back end is the same on all the boolits as long as you get the check on square. Thus the back end is perfect.

Randy

[30calflash]

fatelvis I think for the type of shooting you are doing there wouldn't be a need for a lot of trials with different bullet types. Keith type SWC's have been doing it all from the start.

Between a 4" 29 and a 7.5" SBH I used a lot of unique, from 7 to 10 grains, in my loads. The 7 thru 9 were for paper and plates, 10 was for silhouettes. They all worked for what the job required. The 429421 was my go to as commercial bullets were available of that type and the swaged or other commercial SWC's worked for shorter range use. Never tried or needed GC bullets even for the rams at 200m. The Keith bullet did it well.

Early on I saw a guy use a Colt 44 special on the silhouettes and although he didn't do that well his special took down the rams when they were hit. This pretty much told me that heavy loads weren't needed for targets to that distance. 10 grains worked well for the time I used the SBH.

Also used some 4 - 4.5grs of Bullseye in special brass for indoor events like plates. Never ran GC's or or messed with LFN's RN's or anything much beside 240 - 265 gr SWC's both cast and swaged.

Truthfully I don't think either revolver ever saw more than 50 or so jacketed rounds in the time I've owned them.

[fatelvis]

Thanks for all the input guys. Another question for you:
Do bevel based cast bullets perform as well as the plain based bullets, with the square heels? I ask, because most retailers offer BB boolits, and I am hesitant to buy them.


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[30calflash]

BB have worked ok for me with the short range use, never tried them at longer distance.

It's been said they are more prone to leading but it could also be that the commercial cast heads are harder than needed for light and mid range loads, or maybe smaller diameter.

If I have some handy I'll mike a few up to see.

[sw282]

l shoot IHMSA Big Bore with my 44s out to 200Meters. My most accurate boolit @ 200M is a H&G #503..

lts Keiths' original design with the square grease groove. Most of my other 44 mold boolits seem to be similar in accuracy to app 100yds. Out @ 200Meters the HG503 Keith is KING.. l think the KEITH has a higher BC than the other 44 molds l own...

[Lloyd Smale]

light 44 bullet? the 240rcbs swcgc has always been my go too. If a 44 wont shoot that bullet it wont shoot period. Only downside is the cost of checks.

[BNE]

I have the same gun that the OP mentioned. It is more accurate than me any day with any Bullet / load.

[luvtn]

Nice discussion. It bothers me when you all put a bunch of numbers down for a mold that tells me nothing about size or weight. In my RedHawk(4.2 inch barrel) I have found that 240 gr plain based lswc shoot the best with 19.5 grs 2400.
gramps

[W.R.Buchanan]

H&G 503, the one on the left has a Pentagonal HP for 240 gr. The one on the right is a solid at 260 gr.

I powder coat these and load them in front of 6.0 or 8.0 gr of W231 for Mid Range Specials or Magnums.

Both will knock down rams at 200M.

I have hit Rams at 200M with my S&W 696 with 3" barrel with the 6 gr load. Was holding 1 foot over the back of the Ram.

Randy

[30calflash]

Nice discussion. It bothers me when you all put a bunch of numbers down for a mold that tells me nothing about size or weight. In my RedHawk(4.2 inch barrel) I have found that 240 gr plain based lswc shoot the best with 19.5 grs 2400.
gramps

Good point, I don't have diameter available but my 429421's were sized at .430, cast from COWW + 5% 50/50 solder and weighed 263 grains. Similar to sw282's 503 mold with a round lube groove.

They were air cooled, fired over 10 grs Unique in a NM SBH 7.5" bbl. I did get some forcing cone leading just starting after 40 rds in a match, but not enough to have issues hitting rams.

[fatelvis]

With a 6 gr load of W231 with that bullet you would be lucky to get 850 FPS from a 3 inch gun. With the gun sighted dead on at 100 yards the drop would be roughly 54 inches at 200 yards. With the height of the ram figured in with a 12 inch holdover you would still be W-E-L-L under the ram.
Unless you have enough sight adjustment to get you close enough elevation wise to get you that close to the ram or the front sight is too short on that gun how did you accomplish this feat?
I think this is just a classic example of aiming “about a foot” above, when it’s actually 4 feet. I totally understand this, given he is using the stock sights ( they seem HUGE compared to the “tiny” target), and the 3” barrel. Any kind of precise hold over gets pretty hinky when you start reaching way out there, especially if there is nothing at the target’s distance to give you a reference of measurement,( i.e. sand pit or a vegetated backstop). Also, that huge front sight would totally obscure your target, when holding over, making estimating actual holdover all the more difficult.
I would be smiling from ear to ear if I could steadily hit 200 meter Rams with a 3” bbl revolver with open sights!



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[W.R.Buchanan]

As I recall, I was holding the bottom of the front sight blade/top of the ramp, even with the back of the ram as close as I could with the coarse sights at that distance. The front sight on that gun completely covers the target and then some.

The gun is sighted dead on at 25 yards so maybe it was more than 12"

The real feat was I hit 3/10,,, and this was off a rest so don't think I'm all that good. But there was people watching.

Randy

[murf205]

Thanks for all the input guys. Another question for you:
Do bevel based cast bullets perform as well as the plain based bullets, with the square heels? I ask, because most retailers offer BB boolits, and I am hesitant to buy them.


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If you get BB boolits to work for you I will be cheering you on brother. From my experience, they just wont do the job. From "bought" boolits I got leading and not much accuracy (probably bad cyl/bore fit). Good sharp bases have been working great for me since day one.

[sw282]

Mine is .429''...

[crowbeaner]

I've found that the RCBS bullets seem to group the best in 44 and 41 magnums. My standard load for my Redhawk is the 44-240-swc with a Hornady gascheck sized .430" over 24.0 of W296/H110 and a CCI 350 primer. The big Ruger will put all 6 in an inch over sandbags at 20 yards. YMMV

[PWS]

light 44 bullet? the 240rcbs swcgc has always been my go too. If a 44 wont shoot that bullet it wont shoot period. Only downside is the cost of checks.

Same here. RCBS 240gr SWC GC is my baseline bullet in 44s