Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1

[44Blam]

I saw one of these at my local store and kind of fell in lust... Anyone have one?

[sigep1764]

Yup and as long as you aren't shooting clays with it, its a lot of fun! Peep sight got in my way a bit messing around with trap shooting. In full disclosure, it was not my shotgun. Doesn't take away from the fact it was a fun gun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK you need to go over to the "Casting For Shotguns" forum. We discuss these things in detail.

Lots of things you can shoot out of a shotgun.

Mossberg 590A1 is the US Army version of that shotgun. It is purely a Tactical Shotgun that can be used for "Social Purposes" or for Hunting Big Game or as a Back Up Gun if you live in bear country.

The Mossberg 500 system has several advantages over the Rem 870 platform which used to be the go to gun for LEO's. I has an Ambi Safety, Dual Action Bars, A larger Ejection Port which facilitates Port Loading of the gun, and they are less expensive. Mossberg also makes about 50 different configurations of the guns so you can find exactly what you want already put together off the shelf.

I have 2 M500's, a 20" barrels Tactical Gun with Rifle Sights and an 18" Home Defense Gun. Neither one will be going to the Skeet Shoot.

Lots to know about these guns and after you do a Tactical Shotgun Class you will be come more aware of just how much power a 12 ga shotgun put's in your hand. You can literally go from Doves to Moose.

Randy

[jmort]

I have one. Put a Magpul stock on it to reduce the LOP. As good and reliable as a pump action shotgun gets. Agree, you need to be over in the casting for shotguns with the cool members on this one.

[44Blam]

Just out of curiosity, why would a ghost ring be bad for skeet shooting? I run Skinner sights on all my lever guns and I found that it gives me very fast Target aquisition...

[gpidaho]

I know it doesn't sound logical but, You don't AIM a trap gun. It's sort of like merging into traffic with your car. You don't do it by sighting down the hood ornament. You just flow in. Gp

[Lonegun1894]

Excellent shotgun! I love mine.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't own a Mossberg but I've shot a bunch and worked on a few.

Without getting into the Ford v. Chevy / Remington v. Mossberg meaningless debate; allow me to say that that the 500 series Mossberg's are perfectly serviceable shotguns.

The aluminum receiver will not rust and is lighter than steel. The lower cost is also a benefit. A prior poster insinuated that the Remington 870 lacks dual action bars, that is not correct. The Remington 870 does have dual action bars.

As for the ambidextrous safety of the Mossberg, well technically the Remington has that as well, you just push the button from the other side of the trigger group. I'm not really sure how a crossbolt safety isn't ambidextrous ? It's just as difficult for a right handed shooter to engage the safety on a 870 as it is for a left handed shooter to disengage the safety of an 870. It's a 50/50 proposition.
The Mossberg's that have plastic safety buttons are prone to failure but that's an easy fix to simply replace the safety with a metal button.

The designs are similar in basic principal, the bolts on the 870 & 500 series lock to a barrel extension, both have removable barrels, both have side ejection and bottom loading receivers. The main differences are the aluminum receiver of the Mossberg, the tang mounted safety and the designs of the trigger groups/carrier.

Mossberg had the advantage of coming to production about 10 years after the Remington 870 and Mossberg was able take the best features of the 870 and find ways to reduce production costs while maintaining the same quality. For example, because the receiver is not a stressed part, Mossberg decided to make the receiver from aluminum. The carrier (lifter) on the Mossberg pivots directly from the receiver walls, making the carrier easier to manufacture & the trigger group simpler. In short, by learning from Remington, Mossberg found ways to reduce manufacturing costs.

The bottom line is the 870 and the Mossberg 500 are both good designs.

[jmort]

Other features, lifter stays lifted on the 500
Dual consumer replacable extractors on the 500
Single non-consumer replaceable, stupid design extractor on the 870
Sagging lifter that bites when loading the magazine, suboptimal at best, on the 870

[Petrol & Powder]

here we go down the Ford v Chevy path..............

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sorry I meant to say dual extractors instead of action bars.

After 3 Front Sight Tactical Shotgun Classes my observation has been that the Mossbergs are just easier to run.

Little things like the bigger size of the Ejection Port which allows easier Port Loading, and the fact that the 870's cartridge lifter has a big bump on it which tends to get in the way and block the port makes a big difference in a tactical situation. The other problem is the slide release which is on the front of the trigger guard and requires you to break your grip on the gun to activate. The Mossberg has its release at the back of the guard and you operate it with your middle finger. Obviously the safety is an issue for lefties although you can get a left hand safety for those guns. The safety is only an issue if you forget it, and that's why they say "Safety First!"

Mossberg has the Army and Marine and Navy contracts and has for some time. In that environment the 590A1 which is purpose built for the Military has been refined to perform as needed. They have a heavier barrel and steel trigger assembly, and can take more abuse than the M500.

The 870 Police Magnum used to be the Shotgun of choice for LEO use but even that is changing in favor of the Mossbergs. Just saw a Game Wardens truck the other day at the Chrysler Dealership and he had an AR 10 (Scoped.308) and a 590A1 side by side between the front seats. WE talked and he agreed that in their training it the 870 problems had come to light, and so when they got money they swapped them out for 590's about 5 years ago.

As far as a Field Gun I'd take the 870 every time, as none of this matters and they generally look nicer. If you are just loading 3 rounds into the gun and then walking around for a while before you shoot a Pheasant, you can do that with any pump gun. I really like my Ithaca M37 but it is a field gun, period. I just saw a Military M37 in my LGS yesterday. They have even more limitations than the 870 and yet they were widely used in both the Military and LE.

In a Tactical Situation with a Shotgun you are limited by the number of rounds on board. It doesn't take long to burn thru 8 rounds and then you have a club. Being able to single load the gun efficiently is a big deal as you can do that while you are moving to cover while returning fire, and then reload the magazine when time and cover permit. Also the ability to change the type of load you are shooting like from Buckshot for close in to Slugs for longer ranges is an important capability, being able to actually pull it off requires cooperation from the gun. There are also loads of specialty rounds you can launch with a shotgun and the pump action gun is the best platform for doing that.

The Mossberg fixed all the short comings of earlier designs which is kind of what you should expect from evolution.

Just knowing how to hold the shells so they go in the gun easily is about 90% of the problem. This requires constant practice to maintain.

I'm doing it with my left hand right now !

Randy

[Petrol & Powder]

Randy, I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.

The operation of a 870 is so ingrained in my mind that the differences are a non-issue for me.

I think a big part of the military's affinity for the Mossberg comes down to a rust resistant receiver and a lower initial cost. As for LE shotguns, again I think price has a bigger influence on purchasing decisions by agencies than anything else. That doesn't mean I think the Mossberg is inferior because of its lower price but I do think bean counters care more about the bottom line than anything else.

For a pump action field gun I still prefer the Ithaca 37 over just about anything made but that's just personal preference.

As for tactical considerations in the real world, if you have a standard length magazine tube and run a pump gun dry, you were missing a lot. If you have an extended magazine tube and run that gun dry, I just don't know what to say to you.

I've loaded 870's via the ejection port many, many, many times and I don't find it any more difficult than with other designs. Again, that's just muscle memory.

As for LE shotguns, I think those choices are driven largely by price and frankly the shotgun seems to be falling out of favor in lieu of AR platform rifles anyway. The Virginia State Police just switched to Benelli Super Nova as the standard issued shotgun for troopers which was likely influenced by its weather resistance and price more than anything else. Remington dominated the LE market for a LONG time but their biggest strength of a familiar design may ultimately be their downfall as other manufacturers evolve while they dogmatically hold onto the past.
The 870 was introduced in 1950 and has been in continuous production ever since. Remington has made well over 11 million 870 shotguns. I'm not one to say that the 870 is the end all/be all of pump guns but they got something right.

[jmort]

Watch the SASS competitors reload shotguns
It is amazing what practice, practice, practice will do for speed
Especially with a SxS

[edp2k]

> I think a big part of the military's affinity for the Mossberg comes down to a rust resistant receiver and a lower initial cost.

The military's affinity for the Mossberg actually comes down to the fact that Remington chose NOT to bid on the contract. :)
For whatever reason.
Personally I believe that the reason was the same reason that drives all companies:
they thought that they could not make a significant profit on the contract.
No other reason makes sense.

Also, here is a tidbit for you Ford vs. Chevy types:
the Mossberg 500 basic action design actually uses the Remington model 31 shotgun action design :)
Mossberg copied it verbatim.

Yes, besides the basic action design, they re-engineered a few things for cost/ease of manufacturing,
as labor costs have gone up since 1931 :)
For example, the M500 (introduced in 1960) has a different barrel mounting and bolt+barrel lockup system than the Rem 31
(introduced in 1931).
The M500 lockup is very similar to the 870 lockup, which was introduced in 1950.

Remington also made a model of the 31 with an aluminum receiver.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think it's fair to say that the Mossberg 500 is loosely based on the Remington model 31. The 31 used a single action bar (as did early 500's), the barrel was held in the receiver by an interrupted thread and the bolt locked to the receiver not the barrel. The trigger group and carrier of the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 31 are similar.

Remington 870's were used extensively by the U.S. military but I don't know when the Mossberg became the standard. As for Remington not bidding on the contract, that may have been due to the specifications being written exclusively for Mossberg. If the contract required things like an aluminum receiver and a tang mounted safety - there would be little reason for Remington to even enter that contest.

[Bigslug]

Yep. Got one. The 590- A1 is a TANK - the "A1" signifying the military upgrades of metal trigger guard & safety, plus thicker barrel.

I've run and wrenched on both Mossbergs and 870's quite a bit. Feel that the Mossberg system is much more of a combat/soldier-proof shotgun as opposed to a bird shooter with a short barrel. Probably a little harder for a newbie or extremely stressed individual to screw up in the heat of the moment, owing largely to a shell carrier/elevator whose position is hard-linked to the position of the forend, and stays up and out of your way when loading rounds. A lot less "solid state" stuff on a 'berg as well - fewer stakings, rivetings, and specialized tools to deal with.

[8mmFan]

I used to think of myself as a Browning shotgun guy. Gold Hunters and A5's, a Superposed and Citori's. Never a BPS, I guess, in retrospect. I always shot them a pretty fair amount for skeet, trap, sporting clays, etc. One day I woke up and realized that I'm a Mossberg shotgun guy. I noticed that for fun purposes when I don't take a SxS to the range I always reach for my 500, my Maverick 88, or my JM Pro. For some reason they are just fun as heck, and they ALWAYS work, and almost always hit what I'm aiming at. It's so much fun to run ten slugs through a JM Pro that I've found I've done it over and over and then, when I get home, I realize my shoulder looks like George Foreman beat on it. And yes, I grew up on a 30-inch, full-choke, 12 gauge Wingmaster. We called it Old Poop Tube. I still love that old gun, but only for sentimental reasons.

I just realized that I added nothing to the original poster's quest for knowledge. Sorry about that! But I do love my Mossberg shotguns and the Mossberg company--they have great customer service. I bought a JM Pro new that came with a couple of things missing from the box. One call to Mossberg and they had them in the mail, free of charge.

8mmFan

[8mmFan]

Oh, yes: my sons learned to shoot skeet with Mossberg Mini 510's in .410, and they were the perfect gun for them to start with. Smooth shooting little pumps.

8mmFan

[8mmFan]

I saw a YouTube video where a guy showed that by dropping his 500 hard on the ground he could make the pins holding the elevator in place pop out of place. I was not able to do it with mine or my sons' shotguns or my Maverick 88.

8mmFan