Brass Receiver Mdl. 92

[seb1008]

Hello, does anyone know if the puma or EMF Brass Receivers in .357 can take full power loads for the 357? I emailed puma about the .45 brass receiver and they said not to use full power loads. Forgot to ask them about the .357.

[leadeye]

Can't speak for those two but my NHR Big Boy eats all of the stuff I have fed my Rugers without any problem. I had heard that there are a lot of types of brass, some strong, some not. I would imagine that any of the modern guns would be made of the tougher stuff.

[MtGun44]

Looking at the EMF catalog online, the only brass receiver rifles I find are
the Henry and 1866, not 1892 model. If one of these is the one that you
mean, be careful.

These action designs are DRAMATICALLY different, with the Win 92 being FAR
stronger design tahn either Henry or 1866, aside from the frame material. The
1866 was called the 'improved Henry'.

Even if it had a steel frame, the Henry/1866 design is weak, with no real "lockup" just
a toggle held straight to hold the breechblock in place. Of course, with the
brass receiver, you have a flexible steel linkage held inside a flexible brass
receiver. Remember, the originals were for the pretty anemic BLACKPOWDER
.44 Henry RIMFIRE, probably with pressures probably about like the .22 LR. The .44
Henry boolit was a 200 gr at 1100 fps from a rifle, the same vel as a .22 LR std
vel cartridge.

The Henry/1866 is not an action that you want to hotrod, with or without the
brass receiver. This is a neat old historic design that was improved into the 1873,
which is also only capable of pistol cartridge pressures, even tho steel
framed. The Win 92 was the first really STRONG steel action pistol sized Winchester,
with two locking bars that slide up to lock the breechblock to the steel receiver,
actually a miniaturized 1886 action design.

Bill

[NickSS]

I can second what MtGUN 44 says I have a henry in 45 colt and a friend has an 1866 in 44-40. I consider both safe with factory standard loads but I would not hot rod either of them to give Magnum or even +P loads. The action is just too weak to give me a warm fealling to do so. A 92 Winchester or clone is a horse of a different collor. They are strong and will take hot loads. To get around the weak 45 colt cases for my Puma and Marlin rifles in 45 colt I bought some 454 Casule brass and trimmed it to 45 colt length. This gives me good strong brass for magnum level loads.

[EDK]

An 1892 Winchester in STEEL is a strong action....but I wouldn't trust a brass version for anything very high pressure. Mike Venturino mentioned an 1866 (or Henry) copy in 44/40 brass frame that he wanted, but someone stretched it out of shape with a few brisk handloads, IIRC.

I have had the desire for a cowboy action shooting set-up of 1872 Open Top replica revolvers and either a Henry or 1866 Winchester replica rifle....BUT they would just be for that purpose. No way would I want to load them with serious high performance ammo. AND after serious consideration, I decide to stick with RUGER VAQUEROS and an 1894 MARLIN.

Witnessing someone blow up a Single Action Army Colt clone at a shoot several years left a lasting impression on me....and everyone else with ear shot! The top strap and cylinder parts flew quite a distance.

:redneck::cbpour::Fire:

[looseprojectile]

I have a brass framed Puma 92 in .45 Colt. I am using loads that can be fired in my 4&3/4" Uberti single action, really thin chamber walls. I have shot what I consider harder recoiling loads in both. Nice thing about the Rossi guns is that they will feed about any length boolit nose when crimped in the crimp groove. Marlin 94s don't.
Would have preferred steel but got it cheap. We will see how it holds up. I have not shot it a lot though and I am gaining confidence in it.
I also have a Rossi 92 in .357 and another Puma 92 in .44 Magnum and shoot balls to the wall loads in those if need be.
I would think if you don't get wild and crazy with your loads the brass frame will hold up as well as the steel ones.
The brass frame has a lot of surface area that the steel locking lugs bear on and the locking lugs and bolt are steel and the lower tang is also steel. The 92 design is way stronger than the toggle link actions such as the Henry and Winchester 66 and 73 even when the 92 is brass.
Life is good

[looseprojectile]

Did the people at Puma tell you not to shoot factory loads in the .45 Colt with the brass frame?

Just re read the first post.

[Bret4207]

You sure those aren't plated steel? Try a magnet maybe.

[StrawHat]

What Brett said, try a magnet.



Now, I noticed this in an answer,

To get around the weak 45 colt cases

Where are people still finding balloon head cases? I need a few.

Thanks

[MtGun44]

It will be interesting to learn whether there is an actual brass
framed 92 clone out there, or just brass plated.

Looking forward to being educated.

Bill

[looseprojectile]

and a magnet is not attracted. Pretty sure it's brass.
As I understand it these were made a couple of years ago.
Those that like flashy stuff might like them.
These guns also have a brass forend cap and butplate. Solid brass is more expensive than steel, ha ha.
Life is good

[Rustolium]

Are we sure they are brass and not a berylium copper or aluminum bronze? BC is used for tools in spark free environments. It may be strong enough for some higher loads.

[Bret4207]

and a magnet is not attracted. Pretty sure it's brass.
As I understand it these were made a couple of years ago.
Those that like flashy stuff might like them.
These guns also have a brass forend cap and butplate. Solid brass is more expensive than steel, ha ha.
Life is good

In that case I'd stick to conservative loads. I doubt it'll blow up with hot loads, but it'll loosen up, like those brass framed C+B Revolvers.

[looseprojectile]

has not replied about what a full power load is considered to be. Certainly when he spoke with the people from Puma this was discussed? Ruger loads, rifle loads, factory loads? I'm talking .45 Colt loads here.
Regardless, the gun seems to be very substantial and Brett probably has it qualified.
I think I will make some measurements of headspace in it's present condition and compare as i shoot it, down the road, so to speak. I think I would be able to quantify it's headspace with a case and shims on the boltface from time to time.
I would keep the same case and shims to check it after I exercise it.
I really don't see it as being a problem. It's a given, that gun manufacturers are pretty much self regulating, and I don't think a manufacturer would purposely build a potentially weak gun. There would have to be some accountability if they did, at least to their reputation. Makes one wonder if there are proof requirements in Brasil SA. Gotta be! There were no warnings or qualifiers along with the usual papers in the box it came with.
All that said, I think these brass framed guns were made for the Cowboy shooters that use milder loads. I'll be careful, you can bet on that!
Life is good

[KCSO]

The Puma's are plated steel receivers, albeit a heavy plating. They are good for any factory 357 load. On the EMF's it depends who was making them that week.

[looseprojectile]

Where did you get that information?
This gun is a Puma, marketed by Legacy sports and made by Rossi in Brasil SA. A model 92 in .45 Colt with a 24" octagon barrel. I have noticed that some of the descriptions of this gun include the words, Brass Colored Frame.
My judgement of this receiver is that it is solid yellow brass.
This whole discussion can be tempered with the fact that I will not be using a load that is more powerful than can be safely fired in the Italian Colt clone single action.
This gun will probably be used to unload ammo that tends to be too powerful to be shot in the pistol. I have been known to experiment with different components and get it slightly off ocasionally.

Life is good

[Morgan Astorbilt]

My Rossi '92 .45LC has digested almost a thousand of rounds of 250Gr. Boolets ahead of 11.0gr, Unique, as my long range pistol caliber Cowboy Action buffalo gun. When slicking up the action, I observed that it seemed to be built better (closer fits) than my old original Winchester '92.
Morgan

[MtGun44]

Another possibility is brass plated 300 series stainless steel, which is
not magnetic.

Bill

[John Boy]

An 1892 Winchester in STEEL is a strong action....but I wouldn't trust a brass version for anything very high pressure.
I've been shooting a 'brass' frame EMF '92 in 45 Colt since 2004. It's normal feeding are 35gr black powder reloads. A good estimate is close to 11,000 rounds with not one broken part or any indication of stretching. No, a magnet does not stick to this frame

It has also been used for 50-100-200 lever matches with 300gr Magnus Casull bullets and 11gr of Unique @ 1120 fps

[compass will]

I am pretty sure mine is yellow inside the action also. I know it tarnishes like brass does and does not stay shiny like my Zimac Henry golden boy does.

[Ed Barrett]

I've got a Puma/LSI 92 clone in 454 Casull blued steel frame and it's a tank. I have been running it on a regular diet 400 Gr. cast bullets and Lil Gun powder for 2 years. 3500 rounds, it's still as tight as the day I got it, and it's easier on brass than a friends RedHawk in 454. The brass frame question would best be solved by giving LSI a call and see what they say.