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weeple2000
12-06-2018, 01:34 AM
I have cast a few times with my Lee 6 cavity 200 grain H&G clone. It seemed like a couple cavities stuck pretty bad. I tried to lap the mold tonight. I wanted to post before banging my head against the wall too much.

With my initial casts, I was able to produce some good bullets, after culling them. I had a few issues but I won't get into them. To prepare the mold, I cleaned it with alcohol to remove the grease from manufacture. I lubricated the sprue plate, the bolts, and the alignment pins using anti seize. Like I said, I was able to cast decent bullets after this but some would stick a fair amount. I wanted to avoid having to whack my mold (at the bolt between the handles) 3-4 times to drop the bullets. Even using a mallet it seemed I had to hit the mold harder and more times than I should need to.

I lapped my mold using bolts rather than screws. I poured the lead through the bolts into the cavities rather than through the sprue plate. I then made a paste with Comet and water. I applied this paste to the bullets using a q-tip. I turned the bullets in the mold about 20 times for the problem cavities. I gave the good cavities a couple turns as well. I am wondering if I did something wrong here. I thought Comet wouldn't be so abrasive but now that I'm done I have some circular marks on my bullets. I am wondering if the paste was too thick.

I rinsed the comet out of the mold using tap water, and cleaned the cavities as best I could using a fresh q-tip. I did not smoke the mold again after I cleaned the cavities. I feel like this is a dumb question, but should I smoke it again? I tried to search for this but came up short.

Should I clean the mold again using alcohol? I thought that comet being a cleaner, it would rinse off well enough.

Could the issue be temperature related? My alloy wasn't pouring particularly fast. I was casting with my pot turned down a bit in comparison to my previous attempts.


231563
231564

44Blam
12-06-2018, 01:42 AM
Looking at the boolits, it looks like you do not have good fill out. The bases are not sharp...
Maybe you need a little tin in your alloy and a little warmer cast temp?

weeple2000
12-06-2018, 01:46 AM
does the mold need to be smoked again after it's lapped? could it also be related to the mold not being clean enough?

I did just inspect a sample from that batch. It does look like some of the bullets had similar signs as before when my alloy wasn't hot enough.

I am using range lead so I don't really know what's in it. I have had success but I think I had to cast with my alloy at a fairly hot temperature. I decided to start with what I have and see what I would get rather than add tin right away.

weeple2000
12-06-2018, 01:50 AM
For comparison purposes, here is a pic of some good ones from a previous batch. I believe these have a beveled base. This was before I lapped the mold.

231582

GregLaROCHE
12-06-2018, 02:06 AM
Those grooves look pretty big for Comet. Maybe a grain of sand or a metal impurity got in.

Did you do all the cavities? See if you can see any pattern. I’ve heard of people using toothpaste, but don’t know if it still has the same stuff in it as before. Automotive polishing compound works and you are sure of what you are getting. I think most of those can be polished out. Make sure you do exactly the same thing to each cavity so all your boolits will be the same.

Just the way I do things. I only use a tiny bit of beeswax for my sprue plate when I think I need it. Any oils or greese in a cavity will drive you crazy. I clean my molds with automotive break cleaner. You can normally find it pretty cheap and with force it comes out, I think I use less. When I’m done. I spray with Ballistol. Last, I never smoke my molds. I just keep casting and until things come together.

I’m sure a lot of people do things differently. Good luck

Rcmaveric
12-06-2018, 02:10 AM
Those ones with the lines looks like a cold mold. All the edges look rounded aswell. Even the lube grooves dont look filled out. Up the alloy temp and run the mold hotter or preheat the mold. Adding tin hasnt fixed things for me. Uping the alloy temp a couple hundred degrees has fixed a lot of issues when i cast.

Those comparison bullets in the second picture look good. Let the sprue cool bit longer so you dont crater the base.

I have had to smoke molds for a couple cast. Eventually the molds break in or season and dont need to do it anymore. I like antiseize on my sprue plate and 2 cycle oil or beeswax on the hinges.

Gohon
12-06-2018, 02:13 AM
The only reason to smoke a mold is to help it drop the casts easier. The pictures you posted indicate a mold and pot not up to temperature. If your not pouring with a good flow of lead, that is not good. A six cavity mold from Lee is the hardest for me to get up to temperature. What I do now is cast only the far two cavities until I get decent casts. Then I add the third cavity until all three throw good casts then the fourth and so on and so on until all six cavities are throwing good casts. You can also place the mold on a hot plate to get it warmed up before starting to cast. What was your lead temperature? You do use a thermometer right? If not then you are casting blind in my opinion.

Smoking your mold has nothing to do with your problem.

weeple2000
12-06-2018, 02:14 AM
I went through the sample I had and it seemed like there was at least one example bullet that didn't have the grooves. I am wondering if the issue is fill. I am going to try to clean the mold with alcohol again and smoke it again.

weeple2000
12-06-2018, 02:18 AM
Actually I think you're right that my mold temperature is probably the issue. The alloy probably has to be hotter too. I have been using a hotplate to preheat my mold. I cast my bolt bullets for lapping, then I let my mold cool. So after I was done lapping it and rinsing it, I put it on my hotplate. I think the alloy didn't have to warm up as much when I turned it back on to start casting, so my mold wasn't on the hotplate as long.

Czech_too
12-06-2018, 05:49 AM
Based upon the pics, I would have to say a cold mould, low melt temp. and possibly a slower pour caused the poor fillout.

The ones in the second pic are looking good, so try to repeat what you did with those.

Fernando
12-06-2018, 06:32 AM
Hotter both mould and alloy

Stephen Cohen
12-06-2018, 07:03 AM
If I have need to polish an aluminium mould I use toothpaste as the abrasive as this gives a fine polish, I do find that it takes a little casting to get the mould operating properly after lapping. I also thing more heat will fix your problems. Regards Stephen.

daloper
12-06-2018, 07:28 AM
As others said. Mold and melt temp needs to be raised. Also increase the pour rate. You may be pouring to slow and that will cause those lines just like a cold mold.

243winxb
12-06-2018, 09:13 AM
The before and after photos show a screwed up mold from using Comet.

The orginal problem could have been solved with more heat in mold and alloy. Hotter causes more shrinkage of the bullet as it cools. The shrinkage lets the bullet fall free.

And yes, most moulds need to be hit with something.

Lee-
Mold lapping
Posted by on 11 April 2012 01:17 PM
Remove the core pin assembly and sprue plate, and block off the sprue hole in the top of the mold. Lightly clamp the mold in a vise, base up. Suspend a 1/4" or 5/16" tap into the center of the mold, and fill with molten lead. When the lead solidifies, you should have a polishing mandrel that fits the inner diameter of the mold fairly closely. Don't worry if there are wrinkles, the mandrel doesn't have to be perfect. Coat the mandrel with valve lapping compound or Clover compound, or something similar, and using the embedded tap, give it a couple turns.

More from LEE-
this is the casting procedure that I recommend: 1) Pour 2) Turn the mold past vertical and knock the sprue into the pot 3) Turn the mold upside down, open and knock the handles to release the bullets.... never into the pot though. With the sprue plate straight out to the right, you can knock the handle just above the sprue plate. 4) Close the mold 5) Turn the mold right side up and only then, close the sprue plate.

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List/Index/13/product-support

HangFireW8
12-06-2018, 09:25 AM
Your lapping was so gentle I very much doubt you messed up the mold.

I agree with Rcmaverick and others that the post lap pic shows cold mold casts.

While bringing up the temps will fix the appearance issue, it may not help the sticking issue. Besides lapping, examine the cavities under magnification for burrs, and use a qtip and see if it snags any cotton.

New Lee Aluminum molds do require a little break-in, until the aluminum is oxidized. That's what the smoke is for, to get past that stage. When lapped they require break-in again. One casting session usually does it for me.

Muddydogs
12-06-2018, 09:42 AM
I run a dozen Lee aluminum molds and have never smoked them. Get you pot and mold temp up and an aluminum mold will cast just fine right out of the box. Well after you clean the oil off the new mold first. Haven't found a mold yet that didn't need a rap on the handle bolt to get a bullet to fall free now and then, if you hammering the heck out of the mold to get the bullets out its another indication that your not up to temp.

When I started casting 10 years ago the wives tale about smoking molds was going strong and most guys on this board we against it but I see smoking molds just won't die out.

toallmy
12-06-2018, 09:49 AM
It seems you need to preheat your mold more + raise your alloy temperature as well to get good fill out . I seriously doubt you damaged your mold with the comet / water paste . I would give it another good scrubbing with a old toothbrush + warm water + dish liquid . After you start getting good fill out you can then try to find the sweet spot where the boollits drop out of the mold .

JonB_in_Glencoe
12-06-2018, 12:33 PM
yep, you need more heat. Do you have a thermometer in your alloy?

weeple2000
12-06-2018, 12:35 PM
I don't have a thermometer. I am thinking I might just build a PID.

Gohon
12-06-2018, 12:45 PM
The before and after photos show a screwed up mold from using Comet.

No...the photos show no such thing. I've used Comet to polish two maybe three different Lee molds and I was a lot more aggressive than the OP. If the Comet had of cut those rings into the mold cavity the finished product (Cast) would not have depressed rings around the cast but would have ridges circling the cast. The OP's problem in my opinion is lack of heat.

waksupi
12-06-2018, 12:54 PM
If they are still hanging up, use some 0000 steel wool to clean up the edges of the cavities. Usually cures it or me, along with running the lead hot.

PJEagle
12-06-2018, 01:08 PM
I agree with everyone who says you need more heat for your alloy and especially for your mold.

We all choose to do the same things in a different way. For me, smoking the cavities has made a lot of difference in how easy the bullets drop at first.

243winxb
12-06-2018, 01:14 PM
Gohon- No...the photos show no such thing.

My eyes must be bad.:veryconfu

country gent
12-06-2018, 01:39 PM
Comet brasso mon ami house hold abrasive cleaners arnt a "graded" abrasive there is a mix of grits in them from very coarse to very fine. They are soft and break down to fast a to sharp cutting edge for finishing. Of the house hold get buys tooth paste will work. As will automotive rubbing compound. The comet could possibly be graded by settling in light oil or water. Will describe later. I doubt you have ruined the mould.

To grade an abrasive for lapping a small bowl of light oil or water is required and a second bowl
Put 2" of water or light oil in first bowl and lightly sprinkle abrasive to be graded on top of it. Set timer for 10 mins
At 10 mins pour remaining into second bowl do not disturb what is settled on bottom of first bowl. This is the heaviest coarsest grits and are usually to coarse for lapping
at 15 mins por into the clean empty bowl not disturbing the bottom settling this can be used for coarse lapping
at every 15 mins repeat above every time is a lighter finer abrasive grit.
In this way you can grade or separate the finer useable grits. this should work with the house hold abrasive cleaners. It also will grade the grit laying around the pedestal grinder in your shop or other abrasives.

243winxb
12-06-2018, 01:47 PM
http://pgbrandsweb.esecurecare.net/app/answers/detail/a_id/21
Is Comet ok to use to clean aluminum?
Comet Deodorizing Cleanser with Chlorinol No. Product is too abrasive for most aluminum surfaces around the home; for instance, window screens, siding, etc. (Comet may be used on good quality aluminum cookware if rinsed thoroughly and dried immediately after using. Cheaper items such as camping utensils or disposable cookware may be discolored by this product.)

Mr. Clean All Purpose Yes, these products may be used diluted to clean surfaces with the exception of brushed aluminum. We recommend rinsing.

Comet Disinfecting Bathroom Yes, this product may be used to clean aluminum surfaces. We recommend rinsing.

Spic & Span Powder No. Product is not recommended for washing unpainted aluminum. May be used diluted for cleaning painted aluminum, such as siding.

Spic & Span All Purpose and Glass Cleaner Yes. Note: aluminum should not be left wet with product for long periods of time, do not try to disinfect aluminum with Spic and Span 3 in 1. Aluminum can be cleaned with the product using the conventional spray and wipe dry method.

243winxb
12-06-2018, 02:25 PM
Lee
Knowledgebase

Lead Alloy for Lee Bullet Molds
Posted by Steph @ Lee Precision on 29 January 2018 01:42 PM
Our bullet mold weights for our rifle and pistol bullet molds are based in a 95% Lead / 5% Tin mixture.

Match the lead hardness to the pressure created with the load data.

For round ball and Muzzleloader/Conicals/REAL bullet molds, pure lead is required.

The lack of antimony will let the bullets shrink more while cooling in the moulds?? My guess.

Check with a metallurgist on this one.

popper
12-06-2018, 03:26 PM
Dripping cold alloy into the mould. Add heat. Mould and alloy!
Clean with hot water and toothbrush to get any compound out of the vent lines.

mdi
12-06-2018, 04:56 PM
For the new Lee molds I have recently purchased, I heat-cooled cycle them a few times on my hot plate. I also clean with brake clean just to make sure all oil is off the mold. Sometimes I'll cast a bunch and don't even look at them, just dump them in the pot. Almost every mold I purchased new needs some break in, and my heat-cool cycling seems to speed up the process. I heat my mold on a hot plate, cast a few then start checking and most molds will be dropping good bullets by this time. BTW, I put nothing in the mold, no smoke carbon, no "release agent".

With a sticky mold I sometimes tap open the mold; cut the sprue, then tap the sprue plate screw to open the mold (carefully, just a tap sideways to open the mold). This helps greatly even with a stubborn mold).

hpeach
12-06-2018, 06:41 PM
On the subject of lapping compound- comet cleanser is not the best material, the grain sizes are all over the place. Please use valve grinding compound, specified grit (like for optical work), OR in the worst case, you might even use the lee recommended compound. Keep faith!

weeple2000
12-07-2018, 02:16 AM
I want to thank everyone for their help with this.

I scrubbed my mold with a toothbrush and dish soap water and rinsed it. I dried it using a heat gun, then I smoked it. I also looked at it closely and used a razor blade to trim some lead flakes off of the surface between the two halves. I did smoke it as well. I realize that we have varying opinions on smoking in this thread. I wanted to stay consistent with how I prepared the mold initially. I hit the bolts and the alignment pins with a q-tip and antiseize. Once I started casting, after I filled my first bullets, I used my antiseize to lube the mold again. I opened the sprue plate and lubed the top of the mold.

I produced a decent amount of bullets given the amount of time I spent casting, in comparison to my previous attempts. I took a pic of my mold after I cleaned it in anticipation of having problems again. I am not sure if those marks are from Lee's machining process or the comet. The bullets look like they turned out fine though.

I discovered that the issue is not only related to the temperature of the alloy but also the flow rate. It can help to poke the spout with a wire to speed up the rate if it slows down too much.

It is hard to tell if the mold behaves differently after lapping, it can still take 3-4 hits to drop all of the bullets, some cavities drop quicker.

231634

231635

231636

Gohon
12-07-2018, 03:04 AM
My eyes must be bad.

Could be...He's now getting good casts with the same comet cleaned mold. As pointed out earlier, if the comet had of cut into his mold and made the rings, the rings on his casts would have raised ridges, not ringed depressions.



I am not sure if those marks are from Lee's machining process or the comet.

Not sure what marks you're talking about but keep in mind if the comet had cut into the cavity the cast would have a raised edge, not a depression. Most of your casts look pretty good but some with rounded edged indicate a raise in temperature is still needed. Alloy temperature of 650-700 degrees should work but sometimes 750 degrees is called for. Again, though expensive, get a thermometer so you have complete control of your casting...

Grmps
12-07-2018, 03:39 AM
Build a PID to control your casting pot, you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
I preheat my molds to apr 300°, set my casting pot between 675° and 750° and like to run apr 2% tin for good fill out.

this mold has a bevel base and curved lube grove.
https://i.imgur.com/0tSZMbO.png

weeple2000
12-07-2018, 03:54 AM
I see what you mean with respect to fill out between the lube groove.

231637

Mk42gunner
12-07-2018, 09:39 AM
Okay, I'm coming into this conversation late, but here's my two cents anyway.

All of my Lee molds like to be run fast and hot. Doesn't matter if it is the old one cavity .38 wadcutter or a six cavity, they like it hot and fast (both fill rate and casting tempo).

Some of my Lee molds have been smoked, some haven't. If I can get them to work without, fine. If I've tried the obvious easy answers and it still doesn't work then I'll try smoking it. One of the long reach BBQ lighters works well for smoking molds. IF all that still doesn't work, it is time to consult the witch doctor and start thinking about sacrificing a chicken or two.

I also don't get too bent out of shape until the mold has been heat cycled four or five times. I have an older style two cavity 312-185 that after using it five times the sixth time it suddenly decided it was related to a Hensley and Gibbs mold and it just started raining boolits so I ran about half of a three pound coffee can of them.

You might need a bit of tin, but range scrap presumably had enough tin already so???

Your boolits in the bottom picture of post #30 still look a bit too rounded to me. You don't really need a thermometer, especially if you are using an electric pot. Set you dial to where it just melts your alloy then increase the temp by about half a number and try it, eventually you'll find the sweet spot.

If you have another mold that casts okay, I would use that while chasing pot temperature.

Hope this helps,

Robert

weeple2000
12-07-2018, 12:18 PM
The two on top in the pic were better examples, the two on the bottom were rounded more in comparison.

JonB_in_Glencoe
12-07-2018, 12:21 PM
SNIP...

All of my Lee molds like to be run fast and hot.
I agree with what Robert states here.
and just to be clear, I am talking about Mold temp, not necessarily alloy temp. Casting faster will keep the mold hotter.

The boolits will tell you the mold temp. Poorly filled out boolits, mean the mold is way too cool. Shiney Boolits that are filled out mostly mean the mold is still too cool, but you are getting close. Boolits that are partially shiney and partially dull grey mean the mold is closer to the temperture you want, but still a bit too cool. Boolits that are fully filled out and are completely dull grey means you have achieved the best mold temperature. NOW, if the boolits start looking a little frosty, you are still good. BUT when the boolits start looking so frosty they look galvanized, you are too hot, at that point you will likely have some problems with fracturing.

Let me add one more thing on this, a mold that is hot enough, will usually drop the boolits easier (less tapping), than a cold mold.



SNIP...

I also don't get too bent out of shape until the mold has been heat cycled four or five times.
I also agree very much with what Robert states here.
A new mold can need several sessions to break-in and become a pleasure to use. Several things happen during that time. First, while washing the mold with hot water and dish soap get most of the machining oil off the surface, there is oil in the pores of the metal that take time to 'cook' out. Oxides will build up during Break-in, which acts like a mold release agent, much like smoking the cavities is, but my opinion is the smoking it can be detrimental to those oxides forming...this is one of those "6 of one, and Half a dozen of the other" kind of thing. You'll have to decide what works best for you, as you gain more casting experience. There is no wrong answer. Also during break-in, the alignment pins will 'mate' and open and close more smoothly.
Lastly, even a experienced caster will learn what the mold prefers, as every mold will like varying conditions during casting...once you learn those, the mold will become a pleasure to cast with.

popper
12-07-2018, 12:43 PM
Constant pressure on the Lee handles when pouring without allowing the sprue plate to open. Up the alloy temp a bit and pour FAST - look at the bases. Some are good cuts and some have divits - alloy & sprue plate cool fast. Carefully just break the sharp edge at the top of the mould - leaves a slight groove at the top of the blocks to help venting. Pour FAST, as soon as a puddle is on one hole, just move to the next, don't stop the stream. You will get used to it but it takes a while. Practice counting 1) after pour until the sprue puddle looks right; 2) after cutting sprue to opening the mould; 3) after you dump them and close the mould. Warning, that big sprue plate is hard to keep hot and the cutting handle is pot metal - breaks easy. Start pouring near the sprue pivit bolt - it is first to cool. I don't use 6x anymore for pistol and only 2x for rifle - better results.

mdi
12-07-2018, 02:43 PM
My casting cadence depends on the bullet's appearance. Very shiny and I can speed up the cadence a bit. If the bullets are starting to get dull, just before frosty, I'll slow down. For a lot of years I just used this method for my casting, no thermometer. Also, if the bullets drop with sharp edges, pot temp is OK. If rounded edges or wrinkles, pot temp too cool. It ain't rocket surgery. With my starting equipment (Coleman stove, SS pot and a Lee ladle) temp control was a bit difficult and I had to closely watch the finished bullets. Just keep my eyes on what I was doing, or I could have built an electronic control unit to keep my melt within +/- 5 degrees and used an infrared thermometer to keep my mold temp even...:bigsmyl2:

Mitch
12-07-2018, 11:03 PM
I agree a cold mold.You will find when you hit the molds sweet spot in tem the bullets will drop much easyer without all the beating.The PID is an idea you will never regret.

weeple2000
12-07-2018, 11:38 PM
Build a PID to control your casting pot, you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
I preheat my mols to apr 300°, set my casting pot between 675° and 750° and like to run apr 2% tin for good fill out.

this mold has a bevel base and curved lube grove.
https://i.imgur.com/0tSZMbO.png

I sent hatch a pm. I suspect he isn't charging a very large premium for the ones he builds, it sounds like they're high quality. I don't doubt I could build something myself. I wired something similar to keep a chest freezer at refrigerator temperatures. Just thought he might be able to get one to me before I have time to do it myself.

David2011
12-07-2018, 11:54 PM
I have several aluminum Lee molds and find them to be more difficult to use well than steel or cast iron molds. As others have said, you have to keep the mold hot. That is not the same thing as keeping the melted alloy hot. If you don't flow into the mold fast enough and if you don't fill/cut/dump fast enough the mold will run too cold and will cause the lines shown in the first photos. When the boolits just start looking frosted the mold temp is at the top of the perfect range.

Huvius
12-08-2018, 12:50 AM
I've had similar experiences with Lee and multi-cavity molds.
Of course the sprue plate needs more whacking to cut the sprues - there are a lot of them to cut and they are progressively cooling as you get around to cutting them.
In my experience, any aluminum mold fills better when casting hot and fast. Aluminum is a higher conductor so heats faster and cools faster than a steel mold. The only way I've found to get really good fill is to heat the pot higher than is really needed and then gradually dial it back as your session progresses until you find the sweet spot - a balance between pot temp and mold temp regulation according to the speed you are pouring, resting and dropping.
I used to smoke molds too but now don't bother figuring it may get you a few decent looking boolits ahead but doesn't really make a noticeable difference throughout a casting session.

Other than that, I must ask, have you loaded and shot any of your questionable boolits?
My opinion is... if you can lube and size them as you would a perfectly cast example, you probably would be hard pressed to notice a difference between those and your "better" cast projectiles at normal handgun ranges.

gwpercle
12-08-2018, 11:15 AM
I looked at Comet when I was going to lap a Lee mould....that has to be one of the worst things to use on a soft aluminum mould. It is rough and coarse ...may be OK for steel but not aluminum.
I used Turtle Wax automotive car rubbing compound first....very lightly and then the finer polishing compound. I would advise you to do it again with the polishing compound to remove the scratches that God Awful Comet made...
6 cavity Lee moulds really need a hot plate to get them hot and keep them hot....they loose heat very quickly , your boolits are showing symptoms of too cold...jack the pot heat up also...I start at 750 and back down as everything heats up .
Good luck
Gary

weeple2000
12-08-2018, 12:37 PM
...

Other than that, I must ask, have you loaded and shot any of your questionable boolits?
My opinion is... if you can lube and size them as you would a perfectly cast example, you probably would be hard pressed to notice a difference between those and your "better" cast projectiles at normal handgun ranges.

I debated a bit about this. I am not culling them 100% now. If they look reasonable but a little soft I am keeping some of them. I want the 45's for shooting bullseye. So the distances we're shooting indoors is 50', outdoors it is 25 and 50 yards. The high masters would be shooting a 2" group at 50 yards. I am probably shooting closer to 70-80% right now. So the consistency of the bullet probably isn't going to be affecting my score that much. I picked up some sizers off of Midsouth. It was the best deal even though shipping is sort of expensive. Well, everything was so cheap, that I bought an extra sizer and mold for my 38 special. Of course that additional sizer was back ordered. So this is an exercise in patience.

I picked up a pid, heatsink and ssr off of eBay. I also bought a thermocouple and a screw terminal. I hadn't heard back from Hatch (granted it hasn't been long but I was wondering what the parts would cost) so I started pricing things. I think it will be pretty cheap to build a pid. The pain point will be waiting for the parts to ship on the slow boat. I have bought a lot of items from over seas before. These are from Hong Kong. In my experience things ship quicker from there.

44MAG#1
12-09-2018, 10:08 AM
Weeple2000 said. "The high masters would be shooting a 2" group at 50 yards. I am probably shooting closer to 70-80% right now. So the consistency of the bullet probably isn't going to be affecting my score that

If you are talking about offhand with one hand, then the High Masters will be shooting perfect scores all the time at 50 Yards.
The 10 ring is 3.375" diameter. Now that is some shooting.


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

weeple2000
12-17-2018, 01:46 AM
Weeple2000 said. "The high masters would be shooting a 2" group at 50 yards. I am probably shooting closer to 70-80% right now. So the consistency of the bullet probably isn't going to be affecting my score that

If you are talking about offhand with one hand, then the High Masters will be shooting perfect scores all the time at 50 Yards.
The 10 ring is 3.375" diameter. Now that is some shooting.


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

I am probably misunderstanding something a bit. I think that 2" groups at 50 yards was supposed to be somewhat of a gold standard for what a good bullseye gun should be able to do. I do know that no one has ever shot a perfect 2700 though. So I think my previous statement is probably not phrased correctly.

44MAG#1
12-17-2018, 09:45 AM
I am probably misunderstanding something a bit. I think that 2" groups at 50 yards was supposed to be somewhat of a gold standard for what a good bullseye gun should be able to do. I do know that no one has ever shot a perfect 2700 though. So I think my previous statement is probably not phrased correctly.

Two inches at fifty yards may be true from a ransom rest. But not offhand. Accuracy in what one is talking about is as important as the accuracy of the firearm.
Now, there will be someone who will post they saw someone shoot a two inch 10 shot 50 yard group offhand here in a few minutes to refute what I say. My question will be "was it luck or can they do that on a regular basis"?
There is much talk about a lot of things. Shooting is one of them.


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.