Recovered bullets, gas cutting?

[Wolfmanjack]

I’m casting from an accurate mold for my 45-70. Alloy shot is water quenched wheel weights. The bullets drop from the mold at .4615 according to my digital calipers. Lube is 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. Load is 12 grains of tightgroup. Accuracy is 2moa at 100 yards. Is this erosion at the bullet base normal? I get very slight leading with this load that cleans up easily.

[lonecat]

Ever thought about PC?

[Walter Laich]

I try to shoot .458-.459 diameter ones out of my 45-70

[Grmps]

lonecat, welcome to CB. Not sure PC would prevent that, PC is more like a lube than a protective coating.

Walt, that all depends on the bore diameter :)

[waco]

I would think water dropped WW alloy is too hard for a load that light. Try the same load with 50/50 ww/pure.
Your boolit might be too hard and is not obtruding like it needs to in order to seal the bore.

[Oily]

Really good pics. Only gas cutting I have seen leaves a trail up much farther than your example so I am no help. Can someone tell me what the angled bottom of the driving bands is about ? The angle of the erosion or missing alloy is forward instead of rearward as I have observed on my recovered 45/70 slugs. My slugs have the bands pushed rearward by the rifling and or bore.

[tazman]

Do these boolits do the same thing with a different powder or just with Titegroup?
The reason I ask is Titegroup has a reputation for burning hotter temperature wise than other powders. Another powder may not do that.

[Wolfmanjack]

I have tried air cooled wheel weight which is definitely softer than wc and my accuracy falls apart. I have also tried reloader 7 but again couldn’t get the accuracy I wanted. The 12 gr of tightgroup shoots pretty good. These are the only bullets I’ve recovered.

[Gtek]

Are you crimping? Maybe load a dummy or two and inertia out and mic to eliminate sizing during load.

[Larry Gibson]

Could you measure the recovered diameter of the bullets?

[popper]

Only thing I see is some wrinkling at the edge of the base. Could be the 'tail' of lead being hammered by pressure. Lead being pushed to the rear by the bore (like you see in the l.g.s) occurs at the base edge. Some may be broken off and end up with slight leading in the bore. You alloy seems to be just right, it flows into the grooves (not 'cut') and can appear to have moved forward. Gas cutting normally shows as grooves going through the drive bands. The grooves appear to not be uniform depth which could be cutting by lube or gas but my guess it's lube - edges of the lands have highest pressure that gets the lube to flow.

[Dieselhorses]

I cast my 500's the same way (water quenched clip on ww) and ended up with some lead in barrel. Couldn't recover bullets but there was obvious gas cutting. I then did alloy 5-1 (stick on ww/clip on) and 2% tin GC'd. This mix gets me 17 BHN. All my bullets get powder coated regardless. Anyway the latter solved my problem.

[waksupi]

Are you getting a good fill on your pour?

I would try a card wad under the bullet, see what happens. Can't complain about your accuracy too much.

[Wolfmanjack]

Recovered bullet diameter is .4575. The erosion is only at the base of the bullet. It does not in fact occur around the entire base. It occurs approximately from the “10 to 2 o’clock” position. I would assume that this uneven base would be affecting my accuracy? I’m new to this cast boolit game and seeking advice of the experts. Hunting accuracy is more than acceptable to me. My shots are usually less than 100 yards. I took a doe with this boolit a few weeks ago. I obviously get no expansion. I started with the lee 405 gr flat point boolit. My accuracy with that boolit was slightly better but the leading was worse. I tried powder coating the Lee boolit but still got the leading. I figured it was undersized. That boolit also shot best with 12 gr of tightgroup? The harder alloy also shot better than the soft alloy. So many variables to this cast game.

[Wolfmanjack]

Yes I get great fill out with the accurate mold. Any imperfection gets tossed back in the pot.

[Wolfmanjack]

The 12 gr of tightgroup doesn’t come close to filling the case. I don’t know how the wad would affect pressure and if it would come out of the case square(?).

[popper]

Powder laying at the bottom of the case. Try some dacron filler to keep position.

[44MAG#1]

"I’m casting from an accurate mold for my 45-70. Alloy shot is water quenched wheel weights. The bullets drop from the mold at .4615 according to my digital calipers. Lube is 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. Load is 12 grains of tightgroup. Accuracy is 2moa at 100 yards. Is this erosion at the bullet base normal? I get very slight leading with this load that cleans up easily."
"Recovered bullet diameter is .4575. The erosion is only at the base of the bullet. It does not in fact occur around the entire base. It occurs approximately from the “10 to 2 o’clock” position. I would assume that this uneven base would be affecting my accuracy? I’m new to this cast boolit game and seeking advice of the experts. Hunting accuracy is more than acceptable to me. My shots are usually less than 100 yards. I took a doe with this boolit a few weeks ago. I obviously get no expansion. I started with the lee 405 gr flat point boolit. My accuracy with that boolit was slightly better but the leading was worse. I tried powder coating the Lee boolit but still got the leading. I figured it was undersized. That boolit also shot best with 12 gr of tightgroup? The harder alloy also shot better than the soft alloy. So many variables to this cast game."

Now what did you say the problem is????


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

[Wolfmanjack]

Well maybe there is no problem? From everything I’ve read the consensus seems to be proper fill out and square bases are what we strive for. It seems that square base is needed for accuracy. I want accuracy in my loads. Isn’t that what we are all experimenting for? If I can shrink my groups to 1 moa that would be awesome, no?

[44MAG#1]

"My shots are usually less than 100 yards. I took a doe with this boolit a few weeks ago."

No trouble getting the deer? How much experimenting are you willing to do to gain more accuracy to use at generally less than 100 yards.
Try a filler, will protect the bases to a degree.
It is your call. Do you really need a benchrest accuracy load to do what you want?
Much game is harvested each year that is shot with loads no more accurate than yours. If you are the type that likes to continuously experiment and piddle I say go for it. At least it keeps one from dwelling on their problems in other things. Kinda refreshes the mind so to speak.

Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

[a danl]

wolfmanjack it looks like a trifle of gas cutting on the right side pic bottom . when the bullet leaves the barrel is the most critical point of accuracy. the bullet and barrel have to be perfectly square with one another because any gas off to one side or another will have a tendency to push the bullet in a slightly different direction. the base of the bullet is always the most critical for accuracy.

[303Guy]

Gas cutting on the trailing edge without actually cutting the edge corner and also directly behind the rifling impression? I would say that is not gas erosion. It looks to me like the boolit did not enter the bore straight and that portion of the base ran free of the bore and that the uneven appearance is the uneven dragging of displaced alloy. I could be wrong - I can't zoom in enough for a clear view.

Examples of gas cutting.

https://i.postimg.cc/SRKqGyDb/shot_skirt_tails_2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/jSBbjkXd/Flame_Erosion.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[a danl]

i would not be happy with a find like that but then again that's what it's all about. keep trying till you get it right.

[Petander]

This is interesting.

How do you expand the cases?

[Markopolo]

I am not sure about what the rest of the folks here think, but those bullets look pretty normal to me with only rifling marks. But I am not an authority, just my experience talking. If your getting the accuracy your expecting, no leading in the barrel, then it’s pretty good in my opinion.

Marko

[44MAG#1]

Here is the problem diagnosing a disease over the phone type things.
1. I couldnt find where he mentioned the type of launch platform.
2. What else has he tried to do to correct it?
3. What does he expect as to accuracy and how does it tie into the firearm?
4. Other than having a few wallet groups what type of deer sized game couldnt he kill with a 2 inch grouping load at generally less than 100 yards.
5. When you consider his shots are hitting only 1 inch in any direction from his point of aim how bad is his shooting really?
6. When does reality actually come in to any of pour though processes?

It is fine to experiment just for the sake of experimenting. Ive done it myself. But I still try to keep reality as a foundation on which to build my experimentation shack.


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

[Wolfmanjack]

Recovering fired bullets is something that I never really do seeing as they generally end up God knows where. I had pulled some reloaded 45-70 cartridges and reclaimed the powder(tightgroup powder). I fired a couple test rounds with the reclaimed powder just to make sure all was ok. It just so happened that I was able to recover those two bullets. There is an obvious bevel to the base of the bullet where lead has been removed. Had I not recovered the bullets then I would be oblivious to this fact and my 2 moa load would be just that. I’m new to cast boolits and was just seeking advice as to the cause of this missing lead. I thought maybe someone could tell me what was happening here. Past 100 yards this loads opens up quickly. If I could keep my bases intact maybe I could squeeze some moreaccuracy out of it. The gun is a cva scout v2. I get moa accuracy with hornady 300 gr jacketed with 49gr of reloader 7. That load is no fun to shoot off the bench.

[Taterhead]

If referring to the bit of disturbance at the heel, that could very easily be caused by scraping a bit of lead by the case mouth when seating. Especially since it is on one side. Could indicate a bullet not starting into the case straight, thus causing a bit of erosion on that point of contact.

[HangFireW8]

Like Taterhead I am leaning towards seating damage during the loading process. Pulling a few loaded examples might confirm this.

[Wolfmanjack]

Negative on the seating, pulled bullet bases are nice and sharp all the way around. It’s been so wet in South Louisiana I haven’t been able to get out and shoot. When the fields dry up I’ll do some experimenting.

[GregLaROCHE]

When I PC and size after, I get real square bases.

[nun2kute]

??? "continuously experiment and piddle" Fiddle, not Piddle, it's FIDDLE !!! :kidding:

[44MAG#1]

Merriam Webster dictionary says piddle means dawdle/putter.

Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.