8mm maxium special order mold

[Junior1942]

I ordered a special order 225 gr 8mm maxium mold from MidSouth, and it arrived today. The bullets average 250.4 grs, and they mike .326" on the noses and .331" on the bands. No way will they fit an 8x57 Mauser. What happened?

[StarMetal]

Junior,

LA must be plagued with bad luck this year. That terrible storm and now you getting a bad batch of 8mm ammo and this new way oversized mould. Maybe you better lay low for a while.

Hey, did you go hunting?

Joe

[45 2.1]

That bullet was originally spec'd at 0.323" on the nose and 0.327" on the bands and fit very well with those dimensions.

[Oldfeller]

Douggie done "messed up" again and he done shipped the wrong custom mold this time ..... I keep saying he ships his screw-up & tuning molds out to people "after the fact" -- Sundog also got two "way off" molds from Midsouth back when we did the original Cruise Missile run or shortly there after.

You can read the print on line at Midsouth at this addy -- you need to print it out and send a copy with your return.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000068MMMAX

What the fricking heck -- there is no enlargable detailed "backup drawing" available at Midsouth to back up the sell me page any more -- and you can't read the details fine enough to see what you are buying nor can you read what it fits any more.

This sucks .....

Jr. please keep us all posted how Midsouth deals with you when you report this mess. They are not keeping up their end of the agreement to provide fit up information on the bullet and they have just shipped you the WRONG bullet mold (sound like something cut for a different gun completely). And they have written themselves an iron-clad snix snax no take backs statement also.

Bob, if this goes badly for Jr. we may have to recind permission to use the drawings -- Midsouth has lost it pretty good this time.

Let's see how they recover from this mess.

Kelly

[StarMetal]

That mould would be perfect for the 8x56R M95 Steyr's that alot of us have.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

Same though occurred to me Joe, that somebody blew up the Max or the Karabiner to fit the Steyr. It wasn't me, I was working with Dan at MM on the Boxcar.

What other groups are out here that do a lot of custom mold runs? Does anyone know who they are, or are they maybe just rich people with $100 mold fees falling out of their pockets all over the place???

Why would a rich guy be paying $ 120 for a one off single cavity LEE tear-up mold to fit a cheap mil-surp gun? Mountain Dan is two cavity and a little more than half the cost ....

Oldfeller

[Buckshot]

..............Yup, at .331" on the bands it sounds like a 8x56R bullet. BTW Kelly, the MidSouth add is showing the maximum at 225grs. I thought the Karabiner was about that, and the Maximum was the weight Junior got (250grs).

Jr, even though it says no returns etc, your dimensions are way beyond what an alloy difference would provide. You got something totally different then what they are selling via the description and drawing.

It would be like ordering some 308 brass and getting 30-06. They're both rimless centerfires of 30 cal, but the similarities end there.

..............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Jr. can you post a pic of that boolit? Might be something somone else can use, like me.

[Junior1942]

Will do, Trooper. Give me a while. . . .

[Junior1942]

It's 1.210" in length. Nose = .326". Band = .331". I haven't tried a gascheck on it.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3826.jpg

[StarMetal]

Hmmmmm...seems I started something here. Everyone just sits and reads and goes "Ho Hum, poor Junior,what bad luck" , but Joe's brain starts to working "That sounds like an 8x56R mould".

Junior, does the bullet look like this:

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/7385Steyr.JPG

Joe

Edited....well guess not, entirely different. There was no mistake off the shelf for the Steyr bullet.

[StarMetal]

I don't know if that would work in the Steyr or not. If I'm not mistaking the nose on the Lee bullet for the Steyr is about .320. Juniors bullet is only .005 inch smaller then the groove diameter of .331.

Joe

[Bret4207]

That ain't the Lee 8x56 boolit fer sure. Wonder where for it come?

[StarMetal]

That shar ain't fer the 8x56R is an understatement. BUT....after Oldfeller lapped his 8x56R out to a 460 Weatherby magnum, it might be the cat's meow for his rifle.

Joe

[junkbug]

Junior:

That sure looks like an out of spec. Maximum bullet. Just out of curiosity, have you tried sizing one yet? I realize it is not what you thought you were buying. How many did you cast in your first batch. If I had more than a few, I would be tempted to lube, size, and load a few just to see what they will do. Sizing will probably wipe that driving band right off the nose. I wouldn't want to let it out of my hands without knowing whether it is a true lemon, or an accidental "home run".

However, I understand your irritation at buying something that turned out so "out of spec". Perhaps it is best to not use the mould any longer, and simply start the costumer complaint process.

But then it was only $14.00 plus shipping.

Good luck either way.

Sean

[swheeler]

Junior; that sure looks like the 8mm Maximum I got from midsouth. With a 17 bhn alloy they are 245 grs, .322+ on the nose,.327 on the bands, I size .325. They are a good fit in my K98 and I size them to .313 for the 7.62x54 , this makes them engrave the rifling in the nagant and shoots good, accurate in both rifles. Haven't got around to trying them in the 7.65 arg yet.

[Junior1942]

Mine is an 8mm max from MidSouth, but the bullets it drop are .004" bigger than yours on the nose and the band.

[swheeler]

Junior: you definately got one that is out of spec, way fat! If you have a push-thru sizer I think I would try a few anyways sized to groove dia -.325+-? In the nagant the bolt closes a little stiff, but I can withdraw a loaded round without moving the bullet, has rifling engraved clearly on the .313 nose and shoots to an inch at 50 yds. You should also have the option of exchanging it for one within specs, I had to return my 22-55- bator to lee, never bitched a bit, exchanged it!
Scooter

[Oldfeller]

I have to agree, somebody bulked up a 8mm Maximum form to try to fit a Steyr rifle at .331" diameter. The overall diamension for the Steyr magazine is about right, too.

Jr. if you want to peddle it -- you got some Steyr buyers right here to do it with. If they don't want it, then my $16.99 offer is still open if you can't get Midsouth to take it back.

Somebody call Midsouth, they may have a bunch of them .......

=======================

Heck, I'd like to hear Midsouth's explanation (or perhaps it is LEE's ??) -- that should be a doozy to listen to.

=======================

"Uh, we hocked off with your design because we can (it's our Policy) and we gave it to another group who wanted to make them up a real serious Steyr M95 bambi busting bullet."

"Uh, we really DO sort out and ship you guys just the good molds --- but then we got all these dozens and dozens of "other molds" left over that we sell out to our master distributors for just the cost of the materials -- mainly just to get rid of them".

"Uh, that's our new Steyr bullet design that Pat just drew up from scratch."

"Uh, and what did you say was wrong with it? No, you're kidding, right? -- that's not our fault, that Steyr bullet is a metric bullet so we thought everything was in MM -- that's the standard for European bullets so it isn't a manufacturing defect on our part, you should have been much clearer on your drawing and we won't take them back as you contributed to the error by not clearly noting "Inches SAE" on each and every dimension."

"Uh, Midsouth had no special tolerancing requirments noted on that mold run -- the mold meets our general tolerancing requirements and we won't take them back as you contributed to the error by ordering from us."

"Uh, cast it in lino and see what it says ....."

==========================================

Remind me again, WHY are we doing this ?????

Kelly

[StarMetal]

I don't know Kelly, that nose is going to ride all the way to the bottom of the grooves. I don't thing that is a good idea to shoot it that way in an M95.

Joe

[sundog]

OF, the screwed up moulds I got were the 6.5 jobbies. I have one 8mm Max that I've paying with and the grandson and I went to shoot today after doing Christmas baskets (annual club project for local needy). We shot in out all wx shooting building with the heat turned up on 'incinerate' and commenced to shoot some stuff Felix and I didn't get to yesterday because I had a water pump crater on my Jeep and had to limp home from Muskogee. Spent the day fighting that project, but ready for snow moving in. Fortunately local parts store had everthang I need in stock!

Here's the short of it. As issued K98 with the 8mm Max and 30 gr new manufacture surplus IMR 4895 was best groups Me and GS were shooting 3-round groups and anything past 30 gr scattered. Don't know velocity as too cold and windy to mess with chrono. This load duplicates earlier tests at 50 yds that 30/IMR 4895 is about right. Had a good day with a good kid who did most of the shooting (me doing the loading on site). He told me the other day that he wants to shoot high power with me next year! How about a RI 03 in a sporter stock and Lyman target sights? He fondled it for quite awhile. I got a cast load what will shoost purdy good in it while he's learnin' the ropes. Somewhere around here I still have some of my junior shooting stuff - fond memories.... sundog

[StarMetal]

sundog,

If I remember correctly Muskogee was a pretty good little clip from Tulsa when I lived in Tulsa. When I lived in OK...Muskogee was a bad ass town you didn't mess around in. You're bringing back memories of when I lived there. There's an old deserted Army shooting range way south of Tulsa me and best friend use to go to shoot long distance. I think we hunted in that same area too. Can't remember the name of the old range, I want to say Gruber or something like that. I got around pretty much when I lived down there. Had friends that lived in Manfred too. Use to travel to Muskogee, Okmogee, Olagall (spelling) Owasso, Claremore, etc. Use to fish at that big lake west of Tulsa with the big damn. What was those other towns Stillwater, and Taleqhua (spelling). There was a big lake at Oolagah too.

Joe

[sundog]

Joe, last first. Oolagah was, well that was the name of the lake. Long north and south from Nowata (where I lived a long time ago to Red Bud bay in the south.) Great fishing below the damn when they were letting water out. West of Tulsa was Keystone on the Arkansas River. Same thing, striper (and other) fishing below the damn when water was running. Eagle watching, too. Yea, Muskogee has had a reputation over the years for some rough neighborhoods. The 'deserted' Army range -- could have been at Camp Gruber either on post or on the 'Cherokee County side'. Been a fight over that for years. I've shoot many of the ranges a Gruber. Wildlife Department and Military Department spar over it. Muskogee is about 20ish miles from my place which is 20ish mile from Tulsa. (edited)

One other thing, Davis field, south of Muskogeee. We did several deployments from there. When Fort Chaffee was the Joint Readiness Training Center (before FT Polk) there was alot of traffic. Before that we used it as a 'blacked out' field for some of our training ops ocassionally. Really neat old WWII hanger still there.

So, what does all this have to do with the K98? Camp Gruber was a WWII POW camp. sundog

[swheeler]

Sundog; 35 grs of WC846 plus dacron works really well for me with that same bullet at about 1900 fps, 1.5 or less at 100 yds.

[Jeffreytooker]

I don't know Kelly, that nose is going to ride all the way to the bottom of the grooves. I don't thing that is a good idea to shoot it that way in an M95.

Joe

There is a firm Called NEI. They make a mould for the 8X56R.

http://www.neihandtools.com/

I have shot CB in my Steyer 95 that were cast from one of their moulds. They shoot well. I did not shoot for group. I was fireforming brass then went on to other projects. The boolits I had were from a small casting outfit which does not cast anymore.

I have two of the 95's and if I want to keep feeding them I will have to buy a mould from NEI. The weight was about 245 gr. The gas checks are .323 8MM.
They crimp on quite nicely.

Jeffrey

[swheeler]

Jeffery; Lee makes one also, 205 grs

[Jeffreytooker]

Jeffery; Lee makes one also, 205 grs

I will have to look into that. The Lee will probably get me started. Is it gas checked? I will have to get more brass from Graf. Talked to them today. They will have it in in a couple of months.

Jeffrey

[Oldfeller]

I had posted elsewhere that Jr.'s mystery bullet had a earthly explanation: it was two mismatched mold halves accidentally mated together by LEE that made a very offset (but very large !!) 8mm Max type bullet.

I also said I planned to lap it out to a nice regular round form to see what it would turn into once all its irregularities were removed. I knew it would have to grow some to sweep out all the offsets that were there, but I gave it a whirl anyway over the Christmas holidays, just to see what would happen.

The resulting checked and lubed bullet weighed in at 260 grains (up 10 grains from a 8mm Maximum bullet) with .335" band diameters and a nose diameter of .328". Roundness of this lapped form is within .0015" (including the parting line flash) which isn't too far off of LEE's claimed factory standard of .001" for roundness.

The bullet is now completely regular and balanced form-wise and should fly true.

OK, so I got this extraordinary big nosed, big assed bullet that is wearing an 8mm gas check. What an odd thing.... the installed gas check is about same size as the driver bands as it is snapped on the gas check shank .....

What do I size it to? Let's try .333" which is the bore wall diameter (groove diameter to those who don't think bore wall and land top) of my 8x56R rifle. Well, it sizes nice and crimps the gas check in place securely -- almost like it was on purpose.

hmmmmmm ... Who knows, It Might Work !!!

Hell, It's Alive !!! My Creature is Alive !!! He's back !!

(Joe and Buckshot will appreciate that last little bit of Mel Brooks reference)

So, wearing a top hat and a tux, coming in at a heavier (but better looking) 260 grains swinging a beautiful BC of over .50 I present to you FRANKENSTEIN, the 8mm MonsterMax bullet.

(Bass, I got you again -- it's 10 grains heavier, it has a better BC and out of the larger 8x56R case you no longer have any case capacity (speed advantage) to try to leverage off of this time -- your 35 Whelen bullet is long distance meat again.)

This is a loaded round that seats the nose form into the Steyr throat on my gun. Lots of room in here for IMR 7383 .....


http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/8x56rload.jpg


8mm rules again ballistically over any real distance, just like it should -- them 35 Whelens are just fat old porky pistol bullets again. And mind you, this was a production mold that was provided through a LEE distributor, too (everybody don your hip boots, it's getting a mite deep in here)

Remember, all it takes is withstanding a little pain when you shoot it.

life is good ....

<g>

Oldfeller

[Oldfeller]

Not too long ago, I gently mentioned to Buckshot that he had perhaps mis-stated that a .318" nose diameter on a less than 200 grain bullet had any possibility of getting up to engage the rifling on a Paul Mauser standard throat gun (or touching anything else, actually).

That perked off a thought in my head -- "what exactly would it take diameter-wise for a short bullet's BR nose to actually touch anything in a Paul Mauser standard throat gun?"

You got to admit, nobody's ever done that yet with a BR style nose 8mm bullet, not anybody .... The war-worn Paul Mauser throat is hell, .327"-.328" in diameter way down low where a short bullet BR nose would touch it.

And now, curtesy of Jr, LEE and Midsouth, we can finally answer that question. In an 8x57 Paul Mauser standard military throat -- a loaded round with a BR nose that actually touches the throat down where a short bullet can find it looks like this:
(at a .328" nose diameter)

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/8x57load.jpg

Now, some folks have newer less worn guns -- yes, I know that. But still, the area we are talking about on a brand new Paul Mauser standard type gun is .325" diameter.

Bob will find this interesting, since he likes to really really throat choke his Frauleins and his Flickas. At a body band diameter of .333" fired 8x57 brass will light tension load this slug (and mouth recrimp) without being resized at all. The bullet simultaniously seats at .328" halfway up the nose protrusion and at the .333" first driver band, about 1/4" distance between the two distinct seating points.

It will jam in tight and pull the bullet if you want it to. The gas check and first lube band are the only things poking down in the boiler room with this loading. Throat and tube will turn the entire bullet into a bore wall (or groove if you are of that persuasion) rider, there is no land top (or bore) riding action here at all. This is a Bob-to-the-ultimate-degree throat fit up 8mm choker bullet.

[StarMetal]

Oldfeller,

When the lenses fall out of your scope on that 8x56R save them for me.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

****, son -- I'm worried about my retinas, not the silly scope.

[StarMetal]

Before you shoot it, force your head forward real quick in order to get your brain up against the forward part of your skull. That way when you shoot and the recoil drives your body and head back your skull won't whack your brain so hard. har har har


Joe

[waksupi]

Brahaha! I've also noticed, if you flinch real bad when you shoot, you can push the bullet another four inches per second from the barrel.

[Frank46]

Oldfeller, I've got a portugese kropatschek (try saying that three times fast) that has a groove diameter of .330. That mold would be great in that rifle. Trigger pull stinks, you can almost lift the rifle by the trigger before the firing pin falls. If I remember correctly I still have some j bullets that weigh about 245 grs. Comes in two flavors, steel jacket and cupro nickle. The ammo came in ten round packets (many with split cases) and the cartridge dates are from the early 1900's to about 1920. From what I've read brass can be made from 348 win cases. Not for me though. Maybe someone like Buckshot would like a rifle like that. Even comes with the politically uncorrect bayonet. Frank

[Oldfeller]

Frank,

Harsh experience has taught me that any bullet mold named Frankenstein needs to be kept at home locked up in the lab and not allowed to walk around the village at night.

He keeps pissing off the peasants and getting his ass destroyed for no good reason, which really gets kinda old finding a new Frankie 8x56R mold every few years or so. This is why this Frankie 8x56R incarnation will stay locked up in my lab where he belongs.

You might call "Doug at the Mold Room" at LEE Precision and see if he has any more like this one -- you can never tell ..... he might have some more that got returned by Midsouth just recently.

[Oldfeller]

You guys listen to Ric now, he knows about shooting them little bitty 9mm bullets at elk and buffalo with such like "flinchable" loadings. Joe shoots him some little bitty slugs with his Steyr too, so he understands all about picking his lenses up off the bench periodically and having to iron out the imprint of the steel Steyr butt plate out of his shirts after a range trip.

In reality, the only people who really shoots them Whelens and Steyrs at over 2000 fps very much at all live up near Bass's house (the ones up there that aren't shooting .485 Win Mags that is).

========================================

Now you got a brand new crop of popular short magnums that have come out in .338 and .325 to tickle your jacketed fancy. I bet they can ring your chimes just dandy out of a short action light rifle too.

[Jeffreytooker]

After all of this Hoorah I will just have to bring a 95 Styer to Winnemuca. This should be fun.

Jeffrey

[Frank46]

Oldfeller, yep that be a Frankenstein mold all right. I was only goofing about the kropatscheck as it really would need a .333 diameter boolit. But I seem to remember one article about a shooter who tried something along those lines and the rounds would not chamber. Hey I know, lets get Buckshot to shoot the darn thing!, he'll shoot anything with a rifled barrel. Hi Ho Hi Ho its off the optometrist we go!!!!!!!!!!!. Have had tears in my retinas repaired some years back so I sympathize with you. Frank

[Quantrill]

"I ordered a special order 225 gr 8mm maxium mold from MidSouth, and it arrived today. The bullets average 250.4 grs, and they mike .326" on the noses and .331" on the bands. No way will they fit an 8x57 Mauser. What happened?"

I just got my 8mmMax and it is the same size as yours. Totally useless to me. I had to pound it out of the Lyman 450. Ugh!! Quantrill

[SharpsShooter]

"I ordered a special order 225 gr 8mm maxium mold from MidSouth, and it arrived today. The bullets average 250.4 grs, and they mike .326" on the noses and .331" on the bands. No way will they fit an 8x57 Mauser. What happened?"

I just got my 8mmMax and it is the same size as yours. Totally useless to me. I had to pound it out of the Lyman 450. Ugh!! Quantrill

Mine is 250gr, .3265 on the bands and the nose is .323. I size to .324 and will soon be using a nose taper size die from Buckshot to fix that issue. It was really designed with the worn throat, out of spec bore in mind I believe. You could reduce your alloy temp and bring those measurements down a bit. FWIW

:coffee: