powder coat more accurate?

[bowhunter]

I am sure this has came up before. is powder coated boolits more accurate than standard lubed boolits? also dose the coating get in the grooves and if so how hard is it to clean?

thanks,,,,,,,,,,,

[Rcmaveric]

I find lubed more accurate. It isnt going to make or break a group though.

No, the gun is clean. I dont have anything in the lands or grooves.

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[Ed_Shot]

I can't tell any difference in accuracy between PC'd and lubed boolites in my auto's and revolvers. I'm sticking with lube for my rifles, just because. PC definitely leaves your weapon cleaner than shooting lubed boolits. There is no PC residue what so ever.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

When it comes to diameter I still error on the side of big is better and my alloy tends to be pretty soft, but I don’t notice an accuracy difference between traditional lubes and Hi-Tek. My bore is actually cleaner with Hi-Tek.


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[bowhunter]

very interesting,,,,,,,,,,

[Grmps]

Your dies stay cleaner, you can use different colors for different loads, it's a lot cheaper to get different sizers.

[MT Gianni]

Reading the cast bullet match results, the winners are using conventional lubes.

[Dieselhorses]

Your dies stay cleaner, you can use different colors for different loads, it's a lot cheaper to get different sizers.

I concur with "GRMPS", dies always stay immaculate and so does bore. It's lees pain for most to powder coat and powder coating is more forgiving in the realm of BHN. I always point folks to yes, "Elvis Ammo" on YouTube for the latest and greatest! Notwithstanding the numerous knowledgeable great shooters here on "Castboolits".

[Time Killer]

Powder coat is easier and cleaner. For my pistols and and pistol caliber rifles, or low velocity rifle loads its what I use. In my experience it also allows the use of lower BHN bullets and maintain acceptable accuracy in these guns. Just understand that my experience has all been 100 yards or less with these calibers to include 300BO. For me I have been very satisfied with powder coat accuracy for those guns and under that distance. I have not been satisfied up to this point with the accuracy in my 223 at velocities required to function an AR. Your mileage may vary here. I Have not personally done enough long range testing in a rifle to give an opinion there. I can say that several shooters that shoot long range cast accurately with consistence use lube.

[Forrest r]

I will not say traditional lubed bullets are more accurate then coated bullets. Nor will I say coated bullets are more accurate then the traditionally lubed bullets. I've have found that it is easier to find accurate loads with coated bullets.

Years ago I was at a gunshow and ran across a 629 classic (6 1/2" bbl). They were selling it dirt cheap, really didn't need it but I bought it anyway. It road around in the toolbox of the back of my truck for years & was nothing more than a beater truck gun. I ran a lot of different cast bullets/loads thru that 629 over the years. When I started coating bullets I used that 629 as a test bed and cast piles of 5 different bullets using the same alloy. 1/2 of them I pc'd & sized the other half I sized & lubed with ben's red. The traditionally lubed bullets got run thru the same push thru sizer as the coated bullets after they were sized/lubed in a lyman 450 sizer. Both coated and lubed bullets were the same size and from the same alloy. I picked out 7 different powders and did ladder tests using the pc'd bullets vs traditionally lubed/sized bullets. I set the standard @ minute of golf ball (1 1/2" 6-shot groups) @ 25yds. I put a scope on the 629 and used a rest and tested the loads while sitting at a bench. I loaded 12 rounds of each bullet/powder combo being tested and each load was tested twice. Double testing tends to take any shooter error out of play.

At the end of the day I had 3 loads with the traditionally lubed bullets that would do 1 1/2" 6-shot groups @ 25yds. I had 13 groups that would do 1 1/2" 6-shot groups @ 25yds.
https://i.imgur.com/BAyAIIY.jpg

3 vs 13 is huge

Accuracy wise, both the pc'd & traditionally lubed bullets were the same. Both had 1 1/2" groups, the pc'd bullets just had more of them. Why?

Because of the mechanics of the traditionally lubed bullets. You hit the loud button, BANG the bullets off to the races. The pressure from the powder is exerted on the base of the bullet & does 2 things. Compress the lube groove forcing the lube outward sealing the bbl/bullet fit and forward lubing the front drive bands/bbl fit. And some of the hot gases get by the bullets base pressurizing the lube groove & forcing the lube forward lubing the front drive bands/bbl fit along with going outward sealing the bbl/bullet fit. Years ago via pm with another member on this forum we had a conversation of the 44cal "keith" bullet and more pointedly the square lube groove vs round lube groove. He sent me this picture of bullets he recovered. It you look at the lube grooves you can see they are compressed compared to the cast bullets at the top of each row/type of lube groove.
https://i.imgur.com/M8QJ3DM.jpg

With traditionally cast/lubed/sized bullets the alloy has to be soft/hard enough for the pressure of the load to compress the lube groove and allow the lube to act like a gasket to seal the bullet/bbl fit. Everything works as it should time after time you end up with an accurate load.
A link to an article on bullet lube & how it works/functions to lube & seal the bbl
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLubeCastBullets.htm
A link to an article on bullet alloys and what happens when the alloy is too hard/soft for the pressure of the load.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCBAlloyObturation.htm

With pc'd bullets it takes the alloy/pressure/lube curve out of play. The pc (lube) is everywhere it needs to be already. The only thing that is left is to use a soft enough alloy to obturate the bullet in the bbl. Right now I'm using 8/9bhn alloy (range scrap) for all my cast bullet loads that are 25,000psi and lower. That alloy is soft enough to seal the bbl's with anything from mousefart loads to medium 9mm/357/44mag loads.
25,000+/-psi 9mm loads, 10-shot group @ 50ft using 8/9bhn range scrap alloy to cast the bullets and pc'd with smokes john deere green.
https://i.imgur.com/N6XBlbc.jpg

Pc'd bullets tend to have more velocity than there traditionally lubed counterparts when using the same alloy/cast bullet/load. Playing around with a 308w using a 4 to 1 alloy (4 parts range scrap to 1 part mono-type).
https://i.imgur.com/QCvbTnt.jpg?3
Same bullet/ally/load pictured above, this time pc'd with more john deere green
https://i.imgur.com/tEeK5wb.jpg?1

At the end of the day both pc'd and traditionally lubed bullets can be just as accurate. The pc'd bullets tend to take the alloy/pressure curve out of play which makes it easier to find accurate loads with the pc'd bullets. Hence the 3 vs 13 with the 629.

More 8/9bhn range scrap/berm lead/hill picking turned into pc'd plinking bullets for the 38spl. Nothing more than common powders like international clays (had a couple # laying around to burn up) and bullseye (#10 laying around). 6-shot groups @ 50ft.
https://i.imgur.com/AL4WBux.jpg

When I burn thru the #12 of powder I switch over to clays with that same bullet. 3.0gr of clays shoots the same bugholes with that pc'd mihec bullet.
https://i.imgur.com/FxXIxev.jpg

Accuracy means different things to different people. What I consider accurate you may not. In my limited shooting testing over the last 6 years I've been pc'ing bullets (did that 629 test in aug/2013) I've found that it's easier to find accurate loads with the pc'd bullets and the pc'd bullets tend to have higher velocities that their traditionally lubed counterparts.

[bowhunter]

very, very interesting! thanks fellers!

[bowhunter]

how about no lube groove boolits? how do they do? any better or the same,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Good work, Forrest! Thank you for posting it!

[popper]

Depends on the lube. Lube buggers can really cause flyers. I reduced the size of the L.G. to ~ 0.02x0.02 for rifle just to collect displaced alloy. I can't shoot well enough to tell a difference but I can push them really fast due to increased bearing surface.

[10x]

I will not say traditional lubed bullets are more accurate then coated bullets. Nor will I say coated bullets are more accurate then the traditionally lubed bullets. I've have found that it is easier to find accurate loads with coated bullets.

snip
Accuracy means different things to different people. What I consider accurate you may not. In my limited shooting testing over the last 6 years I've been pc'ing bullets (did that 629 test in aug/2013) I've found that it's easier to find accurate loads with the pc'd bullets and the pc'd bullets tend to have higher velocities that their traditionally lubed counterparts.

At first I regarded powder coat as a novelty, then I tried it. All other things being equal other than the Lube or powder coat, I have decided that powder coat is much easier to get a consistent accurate load.
A friend who is anal about reloading swears that powder coat gives better accuracy at higher velocities. My shooting experience isn't that precise but I see a general trend is that powder coating bullets seems to give me smaller groups. I still have the occasional flier with powder coat.

[waksupi]

I seem to get equal accuracy with both methods. One thing powder coat does do, is eliminate the possibility of lube purge.

[wv109323]

I tested 158 gn. Bullets in a S&W model 14 with a Ransom Rest at 50 yards. The end result was I could not see an advantage using PC boolits. I was developing loads for NRA distinguished revolver. These were target loads at less than 850 fps.
Of course the normal parameters for bullet fit, lead hardness and good casting technique must be applied to get good accurate ammo.
PC will allow you to use a boolit that is undersized for your bore. By PC'ing you can increase diameter a few thousands which may make the boolit work in your bore.
Lead hardness is not as critical with PC.
The cash outlay is less for PC as opposed to a lube-sizer for the beginner.
While PC boolits are accurate I found that cast boolits sized in a Star sizer are just as accurate and a lot quicker than pc.

[PJEagle]

A few years ago I did some testing with 357 loads. I had been pan lubing with LBT blue soft for my Lee 158 grain swc bullets and hated the process. Then I tried powder coating using HF red with the shake and bake method.

I tested 25 rounds of lubed bullets and 25 bullets that were powder coated. Using a 6" 586 in a ransom rest with a chronograph the speed and accuracy were about a wash. If I remember right, the powder coated were about 4% more accurate at 100' and the lubed were about 4% faster.

I consider the powder coating a lot easier and a whole lot cleaner, so I donated the rest of my lube to one of the range officers at my club. I now use Smoke's powders for all my powder coating.

[DHDeal]

Adding my $.02:

For my revolvers I find PC bullets to be slightly more accurate. The one's that show it the best are all Freedom Arms model 83's in 357, 44, and 45 Colt/454 (both cylinders for the 454) with scopes on each. I tend to shoot heavy bullets that are all gas checked after PCing and I push them hard. All 3 revolvers can and do put a cylinder full into a hole at 50 yards from a very good bench.

I don't take pictures of the targets, but the groups will average 1" - 1.25" over the last couple years. H110 is used mostly but I've been having some very good groups with 4227 lately.

The molds I use are all Accurate Molds and the bullets do shoot great with lube so it's not like I don't have a choice. I can lube and size a lot quicker than PC, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the PC'd bullets are so much cleaner.

[Ed_Shot]

Since no one else has brought it up and it's the main reason I started PC'ing.....there is a WHOLE LOT LESS SMOKE with PC'd boolits. Realize that lube and powder are a factor but as I gradually use up my "lubed ammo" inventory, for me, the difference in smoke generation is amazing.

[10x]

Since no one else has brought it up and it's the main reason I started PC'ing.....there is a WHOLE LOT LESS SMOKE with PC'd boolits. Realize that lube and powder are a factor but as I gradually use up my "lubed ammo" inventory, for me, the difference in smoke generation is amazing.

Dies stay cleaner, fingers don't get greasy, ammo does not get greasy, guns stay cleaner, and I have noticed that in 30/30, 308, 22 hornet, and other rifles that group sizes tend to get smaller.
BTW, Brake Kleen® is a great way to lean sizing lube out of your seating die. Just remember to seal the surface with a light layer of oil and blow out the excess oil

[bowhunter]

Since no one else has brought it up and it's the main reason I started PC'ing.....there is a WHOLE LOT LESS SMOKE with PC'd boolits. Realize that lube and powder are a factor but as I gradually use up my "lubed ammo" inventory, for me, the difference in smoke generation is amazing.

that would have been my next question, I figured it would be less smoke. and less lead dust in the air,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[7br]

I have varying success. Tests with PC in a 22 hornet was horrible. I had feed issues PCing a 6.8spc due to profile changes. On the other hand, my 1891 Argentine mauser loves PC bullets and I have had good luck with revolver and semi automatic pistols.

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[mattw]

I have started PC'ing all of my 9mm 124's. I have several 9mm semi-autos and all tended to shoot fairly well, but one of them would lead up and would do it in fairly short order. The cause? It really need a slightly larger bullet than my others. On a whim, I tried the same bullet coated and sized to the same diameter that caused it to lead and it shot cleanly and also tightened up the groups.

I do not know how many other calibers I will PC for, it is a slower process than running them thru a Star or even a Lyman and I still have plenty of lube. I have tried the process on a limited basis with my 300 blackout and have not been impressed. But, I am not sure that I am using good loading data, just have not spent enough time with it. I am also not sure that I am using the best bullet, I am using the Lyman 311041... it feeds well but seems to create more pressure than I would like. I have tried a few of the Lee 155 RN as well and it made groups, but not good ones. I was hitting 1739 fps with 10 shot groups and internally the AR was clean after about 100 of them.

[Boogieman]

Has anyone tried lubing after PC ? Would that give the benefits of PC, being able to use softer alloys, and still allow higher speeds in a rifle?

[MyFlatline]

I think accuracy is a wash up to a point. Have a friend pushing a .30 cal 2200 FPS with PC and no leading. That doesn't
"normally" happen with lube

What I like the most , is reaching into a jar and grabbing a handful of bullets in dead of summer and my hand is not covered in lube, my dies are cleaner and my barrels rarely need swabbing. I'm different from most of you all, I shoot more rifles. I can't think of anything that would make me want to use traditional lube again.

[popper]

I go to 2700 with 168gr PCd cast in 308W, accurate and no leading. Max Hodgdon book value for jax bullets AND not a max powder load.