Lee key drive slug or .690 round ball?

[yondering]

Trying to decide which one to get for possible use on deer and maybe pigs this fall. I know, the correct choice is to get both, but for now I need to just get one.
I'm shooting a smoothbore Mossberg 500, and have a couple barrels to choose from: smoothbore slug barrel, short vent rib barrel, and a 28" vent rib with removable chokes. I've been loading for handguns and rifles for quite a while now, but have not yet loaded for my 12 gauge, and would like to play with some slug loads.
Which do you guys suggest? Which of these two is more likely to give best accuracy? I think experimenting with multiple ball loads sounds like fun, so I'm leaning toward the round ball, but I'm open to suggestions.

BTW, I'll be loading on the plastic Lee shotshell loader.

[missionary5155]

Yondering... I like that name... Personally I would go the Round Ball. A RB will penetrate far beyond any Slug. A RB is much easier to cast. I personally use a .685 RB dropped into a standard 12 Gauge shotcup. I have shot these out of smothbore cylinder Mossberg, My specially modified FOX B (.003 choke constriction both barrrels), and in a Mossberg Rifled barrel. I have pushed then with smokeless and Black. I have used pure lead.. WW.. and Lintype. The limitations are endless. A RB will not breakup or bounce off a BIG pigs shoulder. 12 BORE RB were used for years to harvest every hunted BIG game animal walking , crawling, and swimming.
If I sound prejudice... well YES I am. Start with RB and you will never be dissapointed or in danger because your Hollow base slug Failed to penetrate.
RB will require you to measure your choke area and do some math.. but that is EASY !

[longbow]

I'm with missionary!

I guess I am biased too but I have a thing for round ball.

I've been trying all sorts of slugs for smoothbore and while I have had a couple of hollow base slugs give pretty good accuracy for the most part I find a good load with round ball will give around 4" groups at 50 yards.

My best success so far is with 0.662" RB's patched (yes patched like a muzzleloader) and loaded into shotcups and 0.735" RB's.

These being shot out of both a cylinder bore and a Browning BPS slug barrel with I/C choke.

If you want to use a shotcup missionary has it right with 0.680". I haven't seen a 0.680" mould but you can get 0.678" double cavity at:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=13&catid=417&step=2

0.002" will make no difference.

On the other side, I have tried 0.690" balls in shotcups but so far I find they are just enough too big to shear petals at least on the wads I have used. Maybe a tough thin petalled wad would work better but so far I've done better with a smaller ball or bore size.

Anyway, the undersized ball in shotcup or bore size (cylinder bore only for this !) works pretty well.

You can use equal weight shot loads und the ball or BPI lists loads in their slug reloading manual for 0.690" and 0.715" and Lyman lists loads for 0.662" and 0.690".

Considering the low cost of Lee moulds you could get both 0.690" RB (not sure if they make a 0.662" or 0.678") and Lee Drive Key Slug mould for about the price of a Lyman round ball mould. That way you could try both without spending a bunch.

You might see a little better accuracy from the Drive Key Slug but balls are easier to cast for sure and as missionary says they don't break up or flatten especially if hard alloy.

Longbow

[yondering]

Thanks guys, that's helpful advice. I will need to measure my bores, but I figure between the 3 barrels and about 6 different chokes, I should have something that will work. Math is no problem; I'm an engineer.

Interesting about the .690 ball shearing petals; I'll have to try some different sizes.

[curator]

Try the .69 Round ball made from the Lee mould. It drops from my mould at .685 when made from pure lead or .690 when made from wheel weight metal. I have loaded them in Win AA shot columns with excellent accuracy shot from my old Savage 94 single shot/cylinder bore with rifle sights. A 480 grain round ball at 1400 fps is a real hog thumper! Worked well on black bear and white tail deer too.

[azandy]

I would like to know which is the better slug. .690 round ball or 12ga sabot (lyman mold) both of these would be shot out of a 870 express (smooth bore)

[jmsj]

What alloy are you guys casting the round balls out of, pure or WW's?
I made a sizer to size my Lee 1 oz. to fit tight in my cyl. bore when using Fed. 12S3 and 12S4 wads. Would it be feasible to use this sizer on .690 round balls in the same wads?
Any information would be appreciated
Thanks, jmsj

[Y-man]

Hi,

Because of my recent experience with locally improvised slugs, and roundballs, I would fully suggest Round Balls. Completely.

As can be seen from my "adventures" in using bare minimum, and improvised equipment to cast and shoot slugs and roundballs: roundballs are more accurate for me, easier to cast and load and a hoot to shoot too!
I have had a series of posts on Thefirearmblog.com on my experiences. They could make good reading...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/03/17/y-man%E2%80%99s-home-made-slug-shooting-adventures-continue-part-7/

Let me know what you guys think?

[mckutzy]

hey its Y-man, good stuff, I had bit of inspiration from your work, I do a simular thing to you but got a lee mold and shoot that instead.

OP- I know from using a musket that a ball can be accurate with a bit of experimenting, I know the same can be with the 870. I would say go for the ball with that u can give them pigs hell.

[Tristan]

Hi,

Because of my recent experience with locally improvised slugs, and roundballs, I would fully suggest Round Balls. Completely.

As can be seen from my "adventures" in using bare minimum, and improvised equipment to cast and shoot slugs and roundballs: roundballs are more accurate for me, easier to cast and load and a hoot to shoot too!
I have had a series of posts on Thefirearmblog.com on my experiences. They could make good reading...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/03/17/y-man%E2%80%99s-home-made-slug-shooting-adventures-continue-part-7/

Let me know what you guys think?

Good Job!

Outstanding example of ingenuity in the face of challenge.

I look forward to more of your posts.

- Tristan

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I cast my RB out of a soft mix for any soft skin penetration. Elephants were popped for many years with 20-1 mix (lead to tin). 25% WW - 75% lead is not much off that hardness. 50-50 will complete penetrate anything I have ever wacked. Pure WW will penetrate the thickest neck armor of large crocodile so I guess it would easily go through a large porker.
For the ultimate penetrator try a .685 ballbearing ( I get mine at an industrial electric motor repair plant). It will go through two 1/2" hardened steel plates and still get lost deep penetrating the bern. But be careful as they will bounce back when they cannot complete penetrate an item.
Never tried Lino as I figured it was likely to shatter if it hits thick bone.
Mike in Peru

[Y-man]

Hi Mike: Ball bearings of steel, right? I worry about what that would do to the bore. I have used ball bearings before, as a type of buckshot: fired okay, flew FAST!, and was really accurate. Penetrated a great deal too. But after firing these 5 times: I noticed dents in my forcing cone.

[dogbert41]

I test my 690 rb by pushing it through with a rod before i load them. With most cups I end up cutting them down to about the equator of the ball to get a snug yet not too tight of a fit.

Rb are the easiest to make of any cast bullet! I also have mine for home defense.

Ball bearings scare me too much to load. Richochettes would be so deadly.

[RVM45]

What size ball would you fellows recommend for a 28 Gauge?

Mostly just to mess around with.

Suggested loads?

It occurs to me that with any of the Punkin Ball loads, there's going to be unused space in front of, and behind the Ball.

Ten or twelve Buffered, Plated BBs trailing along behind a .55 Punkin Ball would have negligible effect at most hunting ranges.....

However, if someone is using a Shotgun for Social Engineering--Fails-To-Stop are common with all calibers--and you never know, those ten or Eleven BBs just might give your load the little bit more that it needed, to put it over the Shock threshold.

I don't think that I'd want to put BBs in front of the Ball. They just might cause the ball to swerve as they slow down in the air--and the ball pushes its way through.

Just a pinch or so, of plated 6s--or even 7s might be cool though.

A 12 Gauge shell just might have room for a single three pellet layer of #3 or #4 Buck. They're big enough to add to the carnage in a meaningful way.

Has anyone ever experimented with that?

.....RVM45 :cool::(:cool:

[Fishman]

I too am interested in some round ball info for a 28. My youngest has a cool o/u he has become quite proficient with and I want to set him up with some pig loads and some fun blasting loads. I noticed that a .457 340 grain lee fits pretty good in a shotcup.

A poor boys double rifle to be sure. Something to spark his imagination though.

[bumblefox]

For you guys that like large caliber round ball loads with multiple balls check out Dixie Slugs Tri-ball round. It's three 60cal round balls in a 3 inch shell. Just awesome! Had their recipe once but lost it. Original recipe uses blue dot, that's all I remember.

[bumblefox]

05-22-2008, 05:56 AM * #9
Dixie Slugs
Boolit Master
*
"We do load our Tri-Ball II load for sale which is three .600" hard cast roundballs in a wad, buffered, and roll crimp.....12 ga 3" Cheddite hull.

__________________
Dixie Slugs (dixieslugs.com)-Home of the Dixie Terminator"

Found it!

[thehouseproduct]

A 12 Gauge shell just might have room for a single three pellet layer of #3 or #4 Buck. They're big enough to add to the carnage in a meaningful way.

Has anyone ever experimented with that?

.....RVM45 :cool::(:cool:
Winchester (http://www.winchester.com/PRODUCTS/shotshell-ammunition/supreme-elite/pdx112/Pages/S12PDX1.aspx)

[Punisher422]

I've experimented with a load almost exactly like Winchester's load. I used a Lee 7/8 slug and 3 .311 roundballs. Groups were pretty good. The slug went to point of aim like usual and the buckshot formed a triangle around the slug. The buckshot all stayed minute of bad guy up until 25 yards. At that point, the buckshot was starting to really spead (Neck, arm, and lower torso), so this idea only works at somewhat close ranges.

OP- I have managed to get relatively good groups (4") at 50 yards with the Lee Key Drive Slug in a smoothbore 870. I haven't gotten to testing roundball loads yet.

[odfairfaxsub]

i just did tons of research on the interwebs on this, after messin around with my dads buckshot mold i love how the 00 fits 9 pellets in triad patterns in the shell, i was wondering to myself, "a buckshot load of 9 which would result in a 2-3 pellet guarenteed at 50 yards!!! but.....to hit a paper plate each time with one .690 hole would be tremendous!!!"

thinking on this i found that i could use the wads i currently are using WAA12F114. my unique powder, and my 2 3/4 shells and a fact. crimp 8 point. im going to be in heaven. oh forgot, you should do this with a cyl choked barrel.

[missionary5155]

thinking on this i found that i could use the wads i currently are using WAA12F114. my unique powder, and my 2 3/4 shells and a fact. crimp 8 point. im going to be in heaven. oh forgot, you should do this with a cyl choked barrel.[/QUOTE]

Greetings I would measure with a micrometer the total outside diametr of the ball inside the wad. Winchester wads that I have worked with are rather soft and will compress as they pass through a choke. I figure if the ball + wad are within .005 of the choke diameter no problem. Even .007 overbore has worked without any harm to the barrel. I have not tried more than .007 over choke diameter.
Unique... I cannot advise using more than 32 grains of Unique with a ball load. Unique will produce presure spikes when it reaches a certain pressure. If you find 1450 fps is not enough pop then switch to Bluedot or a similar slower powder.
I load my ball loads in a 8 segment crimp with the petals pushed into the case resting on the ball if the wad permits. I found it gives more consitent ignition and velocity.
Mike in Peru

[odfairfaxsub]

Greetings I would measure with a micrometer the total outside diametr of the ball inside the wad. Winchester wads that I have worked with are rather soft and will compress as they pass through a choke. I figure if the ball + wad are within .005 of the choke diameter no problem. Even .007 overbore has worked without any harm to the barrel. I have not tried more than .007 over choke diameter.
Unique... I cannot advise using more than 32 grains of Unique with a ball load. Unique will produce presure spikes when it reaches a certain pressure. If you find 1450 fps is not enough pop then switch to Bluedot or a similar slower powder.
I load my ball loads in a 8 segment crimp with the petals pushed into the case resting on the ball if the wad permits. I found it gives more consitent ignition and velocity.
Mike in Peru[/QUOTE]

thankyou for the advise. currently i have red dot and unique. i been using the unique at 23 grains for meger 1100-1150 fps velocity due to you know all i really needed. i will see if my "meger" loads provide enough point of aim to get my ballz on target. if it doesnt then i will deff take you up on your experience and switch to blue dot to gain my fps to get my ballz point of aim. really just looking for 50 yard performence. maybe im not expecting much but you know, easy to load target shells, and if i feel lucky ill take it out to 75 and see if i can still hit the trash lid. thankyou again for the great advise. "btw" i proofed my loads to a manual.

[flipfew]

Their back!!!
Attention Lee .690 round ball lovers, finally they're back! about 2 weeks ago I spent two days emailing back and forth with the ballistics products trying to talk them into doing a run of their "122ct2 1/4 felt donut wads" for those of you that have never used the donut wad and arent familiar with them they're the perfect answer to the 690 round ball. It's a special one they make for law enforcement and military loads, 1/4in thick high-density felt with a .230 hole through the center that acts as a cradle both cushioning and keeping the 690 round ball centered down the bore. I love to use these with the cheap claybuster wad found locally (petals removed) roll crimped, these are the best answer for using the cheap lee round ball mold.I'll try to get a pic uploaded later.