38 Spl - How slow is too slow?

[Lead Freak]

I have a few light 38 spl loads that are very acurate and fun to shoot. The slowest is a Lee TL 358-148gr wadcutter on top of 2.1grs of Trailboss. Straight wheel weight lead lubed with a heavy coating of Johnsns Paste wax. It shoots very clean and accurate at 570fps with a standard deviation of 19.1. How slow have you gone without a squib load?

[45-70 Chevroner]

A Squib is a low velocity load with very light report. If you are asking what it takes to get a bullet stuck in the barrel, that would depend on barrel lengthy and powder type and how much you load of it. I have loaded as little as 3 grains of bullseye in a 30-30 case with a 110 gr boolit and have vere little report, at about 600 fps. Keep a rod handy and work down. A cast boolit is easier to push out than a J word.

[Tatume]

Your load at 570 fps is right on the edge. Hodgdon says your load should make more than 625 fps from a 7.7" barrel. What length is yours?

Chevroner gives good advice when he says to keep a rod handy. He is also correct that cast bullets are fairly easy to push through, and make interesting artifacts as well. All in all, it's not a big deal as long as you recognize it when it happens. Failure to detect a stuck bullet and firing another shot can cause catastrophic failure. If you feel little or no recoil, or hear little or no sound, stop and examine the bore for a stoppage.

[JSnover]

I loaded .357 that way for a while. Until I I stuck two bullets (two different days, no Ka-Boom). The next time I brought a couple of primed cases and found out how easily they pop stuck bullets out of a 6" revolver barrel, no rods or hammers necessary. That was how I learned it was pointless and potentially dangerous to load ultralight and gave up on it.
Have fun, be safe.

[Carrier]

About as low as I go is 2.6 of Bullseye under a 148 HBWC. Still chronographs in the low 600’s out of a 8 3/8” 14-3.

[knifemaker]

2.7 gr. of Bullseye and 148 gr. wadcutter was a favorite load of many PPC shooters in the 70's.

[Tracy]

I've gone as low as 1.5 grains of Bullseye under a #358009, fired from a rifle. It still had enough oomph to penetrate 1/2" plywood at 20 feet.

[Outpost75]

In the NRA Handloader's Guide there was an article by William Dresser entitled "Minimum Loads In Handguns" which focussed on the .38 Special and IIRC the minimum charge which would exit the bore every time was 1.5 grains of Bullseye behind a flush-seated 148-grain wadcutter.

Of course your mileage may vary, and if your revolver has a large barrel-cylinder gap, you are more likely to "stick" a bullet in the barrel. In my experience lubricated lead bullets will exit a rifle barrel down to about 600 fps, but jacketed bullets have greater bore drag and don't seal the bore as well, so require higher velocities of about 800 fps to be sure of reliable bore exit. In a 2" .38 Special revolver you can maintain reliable bore exit of lubricated lead bullets down to about 450 fps.

The .38 S&W (Not Special) cartridge is well suited for low velocity and low noise shooting, because its smaller powder capacity enhances ballistic uniformity. Some test results:

.38 S&W Loads Fired In Revolver and Rook Rifle Showing Effect of Cylinder Gap and Barrel length:

Firearm____________S&W 32-1____Colt PP____S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”___________4”________5”_________ __20”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005_______0.005_____.009________ _Solid bbl.

Factory Ammunition________________________________________ ______
FN 82 Mk2z FMJ______577,8 Sd_____616, 10___571,22____Bullet Stuck in Bbl!
R-P 146 LRN__________603, 14_____674, 12___627,22____790,10
W-W 146 LRN_________586, 18____593, 36____620, 19____801, 12

.38 S&W Hand Loads Fired in Revolver And Rook Rifle

Firearm__________S&W 32-1_______Colt PP__S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”_________4”__________5”_________ __20”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005______.005________.009_______ __Solid bbl.

Accurate 36-155D
1.7 Bullseye__________470, 18____495, 27_____493, 23_______630, 32, Min. to Exit Barrel
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____727, 12_____680, 25_______856, 22_Fact.dup.load

Magtech (Brazil) 158-grain LRN .358” diameter, soft lead cupped base
2.1 TiteGroup________550, 34____632, 20_____614, 17_______762, 14 Very quiet in rifle

Accurate 36-190T
1.7 Bullseye________485, 9_____545, 15______496, 18______560, 23 Min. to Exit Barrel
2.1 Bullseye________547, 15____630, 16______572, 15______681, 10

[Uncle Grinch]

Many years ago I loaded some wadcutter for my wife’s 2 1/2 inch Colt Diamondback. She wanted to practice before taking the police handgun protection course. Now this was close to 50 years ago so I don’t have the load documented. However I do remember all six rounds failed to penetrate a piece of 3/4 inch plywood. They stuck in it and buckled the back side.

[415m3]

I loaded .357 that way for a while. Until I I stuck two bullets (two different days, no Ka-Boom). The next time I brought a couple of primed cases and found out how easily they pop stuck bullets out of a 6" revolver barrel, no rods or hammers necessary. That was how I learned it was pointless and potentially dangerous to load ultralight and gave up on it.
Have fun, be safe.

Thats a genius tip. I'm gonna steal it, ok?

[Lloyd Smale]

I don't like going much under 700 fps.

[GregLaROCHE]

Using these light loads, are your using some sort of filler to keep all the powder back next to the primer?

[BCB]

Twenty-five to 30 years ago, I acquired a V-series, 4”, S&W 38 Special from a great-aunt. It was her issued handgun when she worked in the mail office at the railroad station—at least that is what I have been told and there are pictures of her at the station—this has nothing to do with low velocity loads!!!...

Regardless, I went into a “how slow will it go” mode and using various cast boolits and powders from Bullseye to 2400 in burning rate I had 14 loads that stayed under 600 fps. The slowest being 1.5 grains of Scot 453 (I have an “!” next to that charge in my spreadsheet records). It went an average of 258 fps, and yes, it exited the barrel. I only fired 3 shots or maybe 5 of each load over a chrony and I know this is likely not a representative number, but at least it gave me some idea as to velocities. All other loads ranged from 470 to 598 fps...

I don’t shoot any of those low-velocity loads anymore—actually, I really don’t shoot the 38 Special much anymore…

But, I reckon you can make cast boolit go pretty slow and I still will exit the barrel…

Good-luck…BCB

[lotech]

Not only do you risk a bullet stuck in a barrel with very slow loads, but the chance of a bullet striking a hard object and coming back at you increases with such loads. Hard to imagine any practical load for any purpose with a muzzle velocity of less than about 650-700 fps, but some load manuals show loads in the 500 fps range.

[dbarry1]

Depends on your gun too. I've had some that were slow enough to get stuck, but cleaned and lightly lubed the bore and they shot fine. In 38 special, I like using 38 short colt cases with real light loads (better ignition of light powder charge).

[bmortell]

If your using soft bullets and worried how close you are to getting one stuck just work down till it happens on purpose then add 1gr or whatver so your safety margin isnt unknown. From my notes with 38 snub with clean barrel and tumble lubed pure lead waddcutters, 1.3gr titegroup 350fps, 1.1gr 310fps, 0.9gr 250fps, 0.5gr 220fps. Pretty sure ive shot the same with no powder and its about throw it by hand fps. lubed pure lead dont take much to move. also roundballs are great for this, in 44 special i have marked cases with enlarged flash holes where i seat a magnum primer in an unsized case, push a RB to the bottom with expander die to the point it jams in and its basically a fancy slingshot, i havent had a problem in revolver or rifle.

Also i missed, with the same bullet you have cast pure lead tumble lubed with a snub ive measured 1.5 titegroup at 350fps and thats seated mouth on top of the shoulder. Ive made light loads like these for my female relative when she got a ccw and i was teaching her to shoot, my main reason why i dont like to go too low is it gets super dirty, not bieng woried about pure lead getting stuck. So i usually just make 5 once and a while for the giggles. If you got powder that burns clean that low then more power to ya.

[JSnover]

Thats a genius tip. I'm gonna steal it, ok?

It's all yours, use it in good health. :)

[17nut]

I made some 45LC (Lee 452-252 SWC) loads that clocked in at @200fps, just to see if i could make it work.
Load was @1.3-1,4grains of TB.
You could see the bullet fine all the way to the target and if i hit wood they would bounce back.

[NoZombies]

I'm not sure there's a rule, at least, my guns have shown me that there likely isn't.

I try to keep my minimum loads such that they will consistently and without exception clear the barrel of every gun I own of that caliber.

[gwpercle]

2.7 gr. of Bullseye and 148 gr. wadcutter was a favorite load of many PPC shooters in the 70's.

It's still my most accurate after years of trying any and every powder I can get my hands on.
Funny thing is that any boolit from 105 grains to 160 grains with 2.7 grains of Bullseye usually is an accurate load . The Lyman #358432 160 grain cast wadcutter is one of the most accurate bullets I have ever tried in the 38 spcl/357 mag. with 2.7 grains of Bullseye.
Gary

[35remington]

Due to the beneficial effect of reducing excess case volume the wadcutter is the way to go for light loads as opposed to a more conventionally seated bullet.

I see no real need for really slow loads as accuracy suffers. Enjoyable light recoil practice even in aluminum 38s is found at higher than very slow speeds with better accuracy and ballistic uniformity while giving some semblance of all around utility. 3.1 grains Bullseye under a decent 148 wadcutter has that combination of desirable characteristics.

[tazman]

It's still my most accurate after years of trying any and every powder I can get my hands on.
Funny thing is that any boolit from 105 grains to 160 grains with 2.7 grains of Bullseye usually is an accurate load . The Lyman #358432 160 grain cast wadcutter is one of the most accurate bullets I have ever tried in the 38 spcl/357 mag. with 2.7 grains of Bullseye.
Gary

I agree about the 358432 with one difference. It is one of my most accurate boolits for the 38/357 at any powder charge from light through full power loads. I shoot a lot of these at full power 38 special levels and the accuracy at longer ranges is very good.
The only boolit I cast that gives me better long range accuracy is the 358311(160 grain round nose).

[9.3X62AL]

I don't like going much under 700 fps.

Same here.

[rockrat]

Friend of mine went to 2.0 trailboss with a 148gr Berry's wc and promptly stuck one in his new Ruger. Just past the forcing cone. tried to drive it out with a brass rod, no go. Had to end up drilling it out. Slow go, but we got it out OK. Bore was undamaged.

[Outpost75]

Recommended method to dislodge stuck bullet in barrel is to flood bore with Kroil, giving it time to weep between bullet and bore, then use the Brownell's Squibb Rod of appropriate size, threaded onto a Dewey cleaning rod, if for rifle use, and just repeatedly raise and drop the rod of its own weight, NO HAMMER, until the bullet starts moving, then you can grab the rod by hand and tap the bullet out with repeated short strokes.

In revolvers, the Squibb Rod is long enough by itself to reach through the bore. If the bullet has not completely left the cylinder, but is lodged in the forcing cone, one smart wrap will drive it back into the case so that the cylinder may be opened. If the bullet is farther forward, clear of the forcing cone, remove the cylinder, clamp the barrel downward and vertically, then flood the bore with Kroil and let weep past bullet. Then remove gun from vise, re-clamp with muzzle vertical and drive bullet out with squibb rod and dead blow lead hammer, many light taps, NOT mighty whacks.

Works with either lead or jacketed.