Deer hunting with a 32 cal

[Howdydoit]

I know in my head that this little rifle will down a deer. My experience (which is nil) has to ask. Is it ethical to even try or should I stick to squirrels and rabbit with the nifty little gun. now I am talking about 50 to 75 yards tops. :confused:

[Buckshot]

I know in my head that this little rifle will down a deer. My experience (which is nil) has to ask. Is it ethical to even try or should I stick to squirrels and rabbit with the nifty little gun. now I am talking about 50 to 75 yards tops. :confused:

..............Thanks for asking. No state recognizes anything smaller then a 45 cal for deer. We've all heard about deer being taken with a 22RF or the Eskimo's shooting Polar bears with a 25-35. Yet for the vast majority of us, we don't HAVE to use anything less then a recognized minimum amount of power.

My personal take is that as a sport hunter we're not in dire straits and on starvation's thresh hold, nor will our family suffer if we end the season empty handed. Since it is a sport, we need to be sporting and pass up questionable shots, and to use enough gun so that a well placed shot results in as quick a kill as possible. We need to treat the game animal fairly.

A RB is a notoriously inefficient ballistic shape. It looses it's velocity very fast, and without mass (momentum) behind it can penetrate poorly. I really don't think it would be somehting to do.

..............Buckshot

[Howdydoit]

Thanks Buckshot,

Im only asking out of curiousity? MO's minimume is 40 cal. But I have never been one to overgun. I realize it is questionable but I had to ask that question. Hope you understand. :mrgreen:

[StarMetal]

I don't know what Buckshots interpretation of "recognize" is, but here are all the states muzzleloader requirements. Arizona doesn't even have a caliber requirement.

http://www.cva.com/company/regs.htm

Joe

[woody1]

I don't know what Buckshots interpretation of "recognize" is, but here are all the states muzzleloader requirements. Arizona doesn't even have a caliber requirement.

http://www.cva.com/company/regs.htm

Joe

Just a note to say these regs. may be outdated. Oregon is incorrect. Check with ODFW. Regards, Woody

[StarMetal]

Glad you pointed that out. It's alway best to check your state's hunting manual. TN has some very crazy gun regulations. Like in handguns. The law use to be 38 spcl and up for deer, which I feel 38 is even too light. Now they went and changed it to 25 cal and up with 4 inch barrel or longer. Jesus!, if you can find a 25 or 32 auto matic with that length barrel it's legal here!!!! We all know that's nuts. With rifle they have it 24 caliber and up. Now that I agree with, although there are no restrictions on the rifles. Example: you can you an M1 Carbine here. Again, we know this isn't a choice deer caliber.

Joe

[Howdydoit]

Wow Starmetal,

i agree with you. a 25cal pistol is unnerving. But as far as rifles go MO lets you hunt with 22 cal. So a 223 can be used, any 22 so long as it is not rimfire. So even a 243 is marginal. I know I could use it effectively but this caliber is more designed or at least used by younger hunters who's shot placement is not so refined.

[Buckshot]

..........I suppose I should have put in there "I believe" that any state recognizes a barrel under 45 cal. Some states even stipulate ignition, as I think Pennsylvania's BP hunting regs specify flintlock only. Other have wierd little deals that you have to dig to find. A couple years ago Colorado outlawed muzzle loader bullets over 2 calibers long. That hobbled the guys shooting Whitworths and Volunteers to shorter lighter slugs then the 45 cal 520gr ones normal to them.

............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

I suppose the 1-48" twist in my Traditions Crockett might stabilize an elongated boolit--but yer still only working with about 100 grains and a real small frontal area. I wouldn't try such a thing on deer--regardless what the regs specified. I might whack a coyote with a 32 RB, but not a marginal angle shot or very far off the muzzle. The 32 M/L's are rat zappers, deer and large game would get the Hawken x 54 and its 285 grain RB.

[Howdydoit]

I know the 32 is marginal. But I tell you the little gun really zippes the boolits out there. On another forum a 70 gr FFG load pushes a prb over 2200 fps. I would never load that high but it sound like decent deer medicine. I dont even think a 30-30 is over 1800 fps and a 30 cal bullet. Now I am shooting 115 gr Pure lead bullets with a .wad and they seem like real zappers. I do want to get a coyote with it that would be the ultimate preditor hunt. Around here most shots on coyotes are 100-150 yards. :redneck:

[versifier]

Howdydoit, the .30-30 bullet you're talking about at 1800 is a 170 grainer, and a slow one, at that. (150's, too, up to 2200.) Your 115gr might be adequate for coyotes, at very close range, but at 150yds there's no guarantee at all of a clean kill, and for me it would not be ethical to even attempt such a shot. Even a .36 I'd have serious doubts about. A .40 maybe, or better still a .45 would give me the confidence out to the ranges you are talking, and I'd use a maxi-ball, too, given the option, though I'd be confident with a rb out to 100 or so. Just because you can shoot it accurately on paper out to longer ranges, that doesn't make it right to shoot it at game. It doesn't take much retained energy to put a hole in a target, but it does to assure a clean kill in a large dog, and IMHO those rodent loads just don't have it beyond pistol ranges. Now, if you can call the bugger in to within 25yds, that's a whole nother ballgame and it might just be worth a try... in which case please post pictures!

[Howdydoit]

versifier,

I think you miss understand. I dont want to shoot a coyote at 150 yards with a 32. I was only saying it would do the job at 50 to 75. 150 is about the normal shoot for rifle shooter in my state. And this post is hypethetical. I wanted to know if my little 32 could do the job at close range. Again I am not trying to do this I hunt with my 50 cal but I really like this little 32 and wondered if it had the jewels to do it. Ethicaly I wouldnt try hypethetical I wanted to ask the more experienced if it would. thats all.

Thanx for your input and keep it coming. :lovebooli

[Newtire]

versifier,

I think you miss understand. I dont want to shoot a coyote at 150 yards with a 32. I was only saying it would do the job at 50 to 75. 150 is about the normal shoot for rifle shooter in my state. And this post is hypethetical. I wanted to know if my little 32 could do the job at close range. Again I am not trying to do this I hunt with my 50 cal but I really like this little 32 and wondered if it had the jewels to do it. Ethicaly I wouldnt try hypethetical I wanted to ask the more experienced if it would. thats all.

Thanx for your input and keep it coming. :lovebooli

I think it all "depends". If the animal has enough stamina, a 250 gr. (weighed) boolit may let a stubborn coyote run a couple of hundred yards with one lung hanging out. .444 Marlin 429244 going at close to 1800 fps. Some things don't make very much sense. I'll bet a .32 maxi-ball could drop a little whitetail if you hit it in the right place. The T/C Cherokee is twisted right for those things. Always good to have enough power I think.

[BigAlofPa.]

There is no caliber restriction in Pa for big game. Just has to be center fire. I think it is dumb. For black powder there is though. I think 44 and bigger.

[charlie b]

In NM you can use any firearm to hunt cougar and javelina. You can even use a compressed air gun.

Deer and other big game the minimum is .22 centerfire or .45 muzzleloader. Yes, that means it is legal to hunt elk with a .45 PRB or a .22 hornet, heck, even a .25acp in a pistol. Just because it is legal doesn't mean you should do it.

Guy I knew used to hunt everything with a .45 PRB KY style flintlock. He was also a very capable stalker and killed most of his elk and deer at less than 25yd. He and his son always filled their tags.

[dk17hmr]

13 years later hahaha

[koger]

Here in KY I think it is .45 and up. Having said thus, I know a feller who took a CVA Squirrel rifle .32, 1-48 twist, and a using a .32 slug killed two deer between 30-40 yds, neck shot them and they dropped in their tracks. He made it known if you shot anything bigger you were just getting your brains kicked out needlessly, and then went on to wound 3 big bucks in 2 seasons. Now this fella wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer with a low IQ, but a pretty good hunter. He never could afford more than one gun, of a type. There was 2 local fellers, who are die hard bow hunters, and manage their two property's they own for trophy deer, joins each other. Seems the 3 big bucks he wounded and was later found dead, was on their property, which he had no permission to hunt. These two gentleman went and paid him a visit, and in no uncertain terms told him he needed to get rid of the .32 for deer hunting, or they would turn him in to the F&W. They also told him if he wanted to remain healthy, he better never set foot on their property again. His .32 turned up in a LGS about a week later. The point is, if everything is right, you might kill a deer with a .32 prb or conical, but you are just as likely to wound and lose a deer, so why even go there, and risk losing a deer, doe or buck, and probably make it suffer a long while in any event. I like to think that ML's in general, especially traditional ML's, are better than this, but it is up to you!

[OverMax]

I'm not starving nor am I a license purchaser that has to kill something to justify that license purchase.
It's been a privilege for me to observe Mother Nature at her seasonal best year after year.
As far as shooting a 32 B/P projectile at deer? Even if I were assured of the animals recovery >I wouldn't shoot. As I
rely heavily on my common sense reasoning aka Sportsmanship.

[indian joe]

I think it all "depends". If the animal has enough stamina, a 250 gr. (weighed) boolit may let a stubborn coyote run a couple of hundred yards with one lung hanging out. .444 Marlin 429244 going at close to 1800 fps. Some things don't make very much sense. I'll bet a .32 maxi-ball could drop a little whitetail if you hit it in the right place. The T/C Cherokee is twisted right for those things. Always good to have enough power I think.

Thats a no - was in 2005, still is no now --32 round ball is a squirrel gun - jackrabbit ok - maybe a fox if n ya get him close - coyote at 25 yards maybe - bambi ? forget it !!!

[KCSO]

Can you kill a deer with a 32, yes you can if you can get close and put the ball in just the right spot. Is it a hunting round for deer or is it ethical, NO. Just not enough bullet mass or energy for a less than perfect shot. Just like using a 22, it has been done but it's not right.

From a stand at 20 yards or so with shots placed behind the ear a poacher I know killed 5 with a 32 before he got caught. He lost his hunting privlidges for 5 years!

[WinchesterM1]

We have my 5th greataunts BP 32 squirrel rifle and the family story is for a squirrel it’s half a thimble of powder a deer is a full thimble and a bear is 2 thimbles worth of powder, I don’t know who makes it but I got it shooting for the first time in I bet 80 years!

[arcticap]

In Texas, any caliber firearm that loads from the muzzle is legal to use for muzzle loader deer hunting.

As far as the .32, a 125 Maxiball conical may not be much different than a .410 slug which only weighs from 87 - 99 grains and has a diameter of .357.
A .32 ball at close range would be more like a .22 magnum and that may require a head shot.

[Chev. William]

Glad you pointed that out. It's alway best to check your state's hunting manual. TN has some very crazy gun regulations. Like in handguns. The law use to be 38 spcl and up for deer, which I feel 38 is even too light. Now they went and changed it to 25 cal and up with 4 inch barrel or longer. Jesus!, if you can find a 25 or 32 auto matic with that length barrel it's legal here!!!! We all know that's nuts. With rifle they have it 24 caliber and up. Now that I agree with, although there are no restrictions on the rifles. Example: you can you an M1 Carbine here. Again, we know this isn't a choice deer caliber.

Joe

A Custom Ruger .25ACP Standard Auto MKII Pistol fitted with a 8" Barrel sound like it would be Legal in TN to hunt with! Very Interesting!
My Pistol has more Possibilities than I originally thought.

Chev. William

[725]

If, at first blush, it sounds questionable, it's probably questionable. Since we are all most probably in sport mode and not survival mode, I'd have to say figure out what is ethical for the game. Bella Twin killed her world record brown with a .22 Long (not even a long rifle) and her beat up Cooey rifle, but I doubt she opted for that when she started out that day.

[Chev. William]

Now, as to Ethics, and Stalking, that is a completely different subject.

If I am At home, and a group of Thugs Invade my Home, I would use whatever I could to cause them to cease their Illegal Actions, either permanently or at least to abandon their attempt on me.
The typical American Human adult is about 160lbs. according to the FAA when I was Studying for my Pilot's license decades ago.

A .25ACP out of an 8 inch barrel is going about 900fps to 1000fps which would, i believe, Kill an Invading Miscreant just as well as a .22WMR fired from a 6 inch Revolver.

If the shooter's Stalking Skills are up to a similar shot distance against a similar weight Game Animal, I believe that would be an Ethical Game Kill.

Now, if you Are talking about very Poor Stalking Skills, such as 450 yard shots across a canyon or Ravine to "bag" a trophy game animal, that is More Unethical in my opinion.

Also the OP did NOT mention if he were Talking of a Muzzle loader or a Breech loader.

Chev. William

[rodwha]

Does this not depend on the .32? There are those who use cast bullets through less than a .30-30. If the bullet has a lot of mass and a wide meplat, and pushed by plenty of powder. I’d still prefer much more, but something even along the lines of the .32-40 are much more than what I’d imaging discussed here. Not sure if the few more common .32’s are capable of handling those kinds of powder charges and heavy conicals/bullets.

Ive felt a .36 with a nice conical might do nicely for our small Hill Country deer.

[Hi-Speed]

I wouldn’t use anything less than 45 cal using conical, or 50 cal using patch/ball.

[charlie b]

13 years later hahaha

Dam I didn't look. I hate it when old threads come back. :killingpc

[Texas by God]

I think it would work as well as a 22 long rifle. Probably better!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[pietro]

.

DANG ! This is the most active zombie post I've seen in years ! . :popcorn:

.

[rodwha]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32-40_Ballard

Should work fairly well, and did seem to back then. As I said I’d prefer a bit more, but that’s not to say this wasn’t effective and not just barely so.

[Good Cheer]

There was a fellow posting from Texas about ten years or so ago that hunted with a .32 just doing close head shots.
He was always catching a lot of flack from those of lesser skills and greater ethics.

[rodwha]

I wouldn’t use anything less than 45 cal using conical, or 50 cal using patch/ball.

A .45 cal was nearly unheard of along the eastern board. A .40 cal was rather large and yet all sorts of game were taken with the lowly ball as conicals weren’t a thing back then with the flintlocks. Of course the ranges there tend to be rather short where 50 yds is pretty far. The calibers didn’t tend to get bigger until they moved westward.

[indian joe]

Now, as to Ethics, and Stalking, that is a completely different subject.

If I am At home, and a group of Thugs Invade my Home, I would use whatever I could to cause them to cease their Illegal Actions, either permanently or at least to abandon their attempt on me.
The typical American Human adult is about 160lbs. according ot the FAA when I was Studying for my Pilot's license decades ago.

A .25ACP out of an 8 inch barrel is going about 900fps to 1000fps which would, i believe, Kill an Invading Miscreant just as well as a .22WMR fired from a 6 inch Revolver.

If the shooter's Stalking Skills are up to a similar shot distance against a similar weight Game Animal, I believe that would be an Ethical Game Kill.

Now, if you Are talking about very Poor Stalking Skills, such as 450 yard shots across a canyon or Ravine to "bag" a trophy game animal, that is More Unethical in my opinion.

Also the OP did NOT mention if he were Talking of a Muzzle loader or a Breech loader.

Chev. William

On about his third or fourth post he talked about a 70 grain charge of FF sending a PRB at 2200fps - said he would never load the little gun that hard - but its a fair assumption that he was talking about a 32 cal MLoader at the start .

[obssd1958]

Newtire, you've done it again!!!!

:groner::bigsmyl2::cbpour::happy dance::cast_boolits:

[charlie b]

Folks, the last time the OP posted was in 2009.

[fixit]

Perhaps, but this is an interesting post line. With that, I will voice my thoughts from the 70s. When Thompson center introduced its Seneca rifle in 36 caliber, they posted their ballistics with 36 caliber Maxi ball, and I always thought those ballistics would have made it an adequate deer rifle, if state laws would have allowed.

[Beeks]

Holy Thread Resurrection! :-P

[Hi-Speed]

I fell for it...1st place for oldest thread resurrection in history! But it was fun

[obssd1958]

Nothing to "fall for" - it's still a great discussion topic, as proved by the continuing conversation.
One of the nice things about CastBoolits, is that sometimes the conversation takes an interesting turn, just like sitting around a table in a coffee shop!

[Hi-Speed]

You’re right, and one doesn’t get reprimanded for bringing back an old thread like other blogs.

[sharps4590]

40 cal. is legal for deer in Missouri. I have a late Lancaster in 45 I was dying to take a deer with and it took a couple representative does with aplomb. Farthest shot about 75 yards, closest about 60. My neighbor used a 40 with PRB for deer for a few years and has tracked penetration from the brisket to the point of the off ham where he found the ball. Shot was about 50 yards he tells me and he's trustworthy.

Other than the two with the 45 I mostly use my 54's. Even though my neighbor has had good luck with his 40 he went to a 54 a couple years ago. More to do something different than anything else, I believe.

[rodwha]

40 cal. is legal for deer in Missouri. I have a late Lancaster in 45 I was dying to take a deer with and it took a couple representative does with aplomb. Farthest shot about 75 yards, closest about 60. My neighbor used a 40 with PRB for deer for a few years and has tracked penetration from the brisket to the point of the off ham where he found the ball. Shot was about 50 yards he tells me and he's trustworthy.

Other than the two with the 45 I mostly use my 54's. Even though my neighbor has had good luck with his 40 he went to a 54 a couple years ago. More to do something different than anything else, I believe.

Not being sarcastic at all, but it sure seems a cast ball is imbued with magic as they certainly perform well outside of what seems logical, though partly that’s to do with writers and promoters telling us that a .30-06 is barely capable of taking deer these days if you use an older cup and core bullet.

When I ran the numbers for a .50 cal ball I scoffed at how that could be a worthy projectile on deer beyond maybe 50 yds at best, but I’ve been shown otherwise, and out where the ft/lbs people like to talk about is under 400, and it still goes completely through a deer shot broadside, and not just the little deer known in FL or TX.

[Good Cheer]

A .45 cal was nearly unheard of along the eastern board. A .40 cal was rather large and yet all sorts of game were taken with the lowly ball as conicals weren’t a thing back then with the flintlocks. Of course the ranges there tend to be rather short where 50 yds is pretty far. The calibers didn’t tend to get bigger until they moved westward.

Looking at one inch and thicker barrels with a .38 hole down the middle just blows my mind.
Like oh my Grampa, what big arms you have!

[Good Cheer]

Oh hey, about hunting with a .40.
With 28" and 38" long Green Mountain .40 drop-ins I experimented with various designs trying to see what could be done. Used lubed lead boolits and card wads. Used paper patched. I got some pretty good results but in the end there was always a flyer in the spread to make me go "uh oh". Couldn't get good enough results such as I'd wanta hang my hat on.
237630

[Good Cheer]

And these.
237631

[Good Cheer]

And them.
237633

[Good Cheer]

Still got the 28" long Green Mountain .40.
Some day reckon will try something else in it just for grins.
From what I've seen in tests a pointy nosed hollow base would probably work. Once upon a time Ideal sold hollow base molds for 38-40 with oversized groove diameters and that boolit would pro'bly work.

If .40 bore was what you had and you were shooting at deer under fifty yards it would be real easy to reliably out-do the performance of an 1873 chambered for 38-40, both in velocity and boolit weight. With the various designs I tried out past fifty yards the slow round ball twist totally blows hunting accuracy.

[sharps4590]

rodwha, I think it was Sam Fadala who wrote, "the patched round ball kills all out of proportion to its paper ballistics". Given the 30 or so deer I've taken with the PRB, with 45, 50 and 54 all I can do is agree.

If I want to take a deer with cast, handgun bullets I'll use a revolver, thank you very much.

[rfd]

going that low in a patched ball diameter for medium sized hunted game just potentially ups the ethics and luck off the charts. not smart. even if all conditions and the the trigger finger appear "right".

[Good Cheer]

rodwha, I think it was Sam Fadala who wrote, "the patched round ball kills all out of proportion to its paper ballistics". Given the 30 or so deer I've taken with the PRB, with 45, 50 and 54 all I can do is agree.

If I want to take a deer with cast, handgun bullets I'll use a revolver, thank you very much.

Well there's a thought... perhaps the deer hunters of the early 1800's would have opted for magnum hand guns if they'd had them instead of developing the conical elongated bullets for their round ball rifles.

[Good Cheer]

This is from another .40.
Definitely a step up from Dad's 38-40.

237634

[Froogal]

Pretty much anything that goes bang WILL take a deer if it is a well placed shot, or maybe just lucky.

[beemer]

I have never been a great deer hunter but have killed a few. A 50 cal is my go to for deer but I do have a 40 cal and have used it to take deer. A .395 PRB and 60 grs of 3F through both lungs works, think about 65 yds. was the longest shot. It was mostly a squirrel rifle with a 38 spcl case of 3F, about 28 grs. There isn't any restrictions on caliber of a ML in NC.

[Hanshi]

Just me, but the .32, and .36, are small game rifles. While the .32 is more powerful than is usually given credit for, I consider it a "last ditch, "survival" and "emergency" deer rifle. All the states I've hunted in had .45 as the minimum caliber for muzzleloaders. I've taken lots of deer with a couple of .45s, from 15 feet up to 75 yards. The .40? Maybe, where it's legal.

[rodwha]

I’ve read that the .327 Federal Magnum works quite well on medium game. The .32-40 is comparable, but with a heavier bullet. I wouldn’t call it bare minimum at all IF it has a wide meplat and plenty of velocity such as with the .32-40. I’d still opt for more. But even the .38-55 was well known to be quite effective and still under .40 or .45.

With that said I’ve always liked larger calibers when it comes to slower velocities. And I’ve most certainly contemplated a muzzleloading equivalent to the .38-55 using a heavy bullet with a wide meplat.

A bit of an estimate here, but judging by the 8mm Lee bullet I’d think a 150 WFN would have a BC or maybe .175 and might be short enough to stabilize in a moderate twist. Launched at 1500 fps, roughly about what the .32-40 does, this would have 1200 fps left at 100 yds (900’ elevation) with 479 ft/lbs, and according to Beartooth’s data this would create over a 3/4” permanent cavity if it didn’t expand, which would be quite large compared to what I read of a patched ball doing at that distance from a large caliber. An 80% meplat would be about .256” from an actual .32 cal bullet.

https://i.postimg.cc/0NX83kpq/3-F2-ED317-4-D9-C-4-CD7-88-C6-15-DB8139-F278.png (https://postimg.cc/TymM5X7k)

[megasupermagnum]

The 357 magnum is a very good deer cartridge. 158 grains at 1200 fps is pretty standard. Can a 32 caliber rifle get a 150ish grain conical to 1200 fps safely? If so, it has the potential to be a good deer rifle.

[rodwha]

The 357 magnum is a very good deer cartridge. 158 grains at 1200 fps is pretty standard. Can a 32 caliber rifle get a 150ish grain conical to 1200 fps safely? If so, it has the potential to be a good deer rifle.

It would depend on wall thickness I’d guess. Not sure how sturdy the various .32’s available are, but one could go custom if they aren’t designed to handle that sort of load. But then I was looking at 1500 fps as it compares fairly equally to the .32-40 which is known to be effective on medium game.

But at a muzzle velocity of 1200 fps it would still have 1020 fps at 100 yds with 347 ft/lbs, and according to the chart would create a touch over .625”. Still not bad according to the numbers. But I’d want 1200 fps at the animal.

[StrawHat]

A .45 cal was nearly unheard of along the eastern board. A .40 cal was rather large and yet all sorts of game were taken with the lowly ball as conicals weren’t a thing back then with the flintlocks. Of course the ranges there tend to be rather short where 50 yds is pretty far. The calibers didn’t tend to get bigger until they moved westward.

Rodwha,

Many of the flintlocks used in the early days of this country were larger than 50 caliber, some much larger. During the percussion era the caliber might have been reduced but a hunting rifle or smooth rifle relied on the caliber and mass of the PRB to anchor game.

Kevin

[Edward]

Rodwha,

Many of the flintlocks used in the early days of this country were larger than 50 caliber, some much larger. During the percussion era the caliber might have been reduced but a hunting rifle or smooth rifle relied on the caliber and mass of the PRB to anchor game.

Kevin

I always thought (back in the day) folks were kind of frugal with their /powder/lead , no stores down the street .They recovered their lead when possible (bag molds) and got close before shooting the squirrel . You could carry more shots in smaller calibers ,weight mattered back then too.And I bet they ate more small game than buffalo back then!

[Moleman-]

There's pretty good video "evidence" that a 30 hawkens won't effectively kill a deer. Quite frankly I'm shocked that this vital evidence hasn't been brought up, but none the less you should watch Jeremiah Johnson...again. His 30 hawkins couldn't kill a deer when he needed it to even though it was "all hawken". Now the 50 that he got from Hatchet Jack put the smack down hard on deer and if you look close you can even see the arm of Thor when he throws the deer onto the snow.

[rodwha]

Rodwha,

Many of the flintlocks used in the early days of this country were larger than 50 caliber, some much larger. During the percussion era the caliber might have been reduced but a hunting rifle or smooth rifle relied on the caliber and mass of the PRB to anchor game.

Kevin

Indeed. What I see commonly spoken of by those on the traditional forum is that prior to westward expansion larger calibers were uncommon. These are the guys who are into the reenactments and period correctness so I figure they know what they are talking about. We certainly know, as you pointed out, that large calibers were what killed, and we certainly see that in the smoothbored flintlocks.

[StrawHat]

I am not a re-enactor nor being period correct. I learned from Wes Kindig, Joe Kindig, Bivins , James Johnston and anyone else I could talk to, read from or buy collectibles. In this country, the early long guns were larger than the later ones.

In England the deer rifles started at 45 and went up.

Kevin

[rodwha]

I am not a re-enactor nor being period correct. I learned from Wes Kindig, Joe Kindig, Bivins , James Johnston and anyone else I could talk to, read from or buy collectibles. In this country, the early long guns were larger than the later ones.

In England the deer rifles started at 45 and went up.

Kevin

I find this interesting and not something I put too much thought into. I know a lot of the guns used during the War of Independence were larger caliber, yet I’ve read time and time again how the calibers were typically under .45 prior to the westward expansion. Do you happen to know about when the downsizing became mainstream and why?

As was mentioned the cost and weight of lead can be understood. The ranges eastward were typically very short so I can see how one can get by with a much smaller ball with a much higher velocity.

I am not a reenactor or historian either, though I find it a bit fascinating.

[Rich/WIS]

Going through Edith Coopers book "The Kentucky Rifle and Me" the vast majority of rifles fall into the 36-50 caliber range, with some odd sizes like 38 and 48, possibly a smaller caliber "freshed out" after years of service took its toll. IIRC there was an article years ago in Muzzleoader magazine in which the author had examined a number of original rifles from the late 18th and early 19th century and wrote that the average/common caliber was about 50. Remember that a lot of the hunters moving west from the colonies were hide hunting for deer and weren't interested in practicing their tracking skill, but in harvesting hides and keeping their scalps.

[Good Cheer]

I'm still amazed when I see a piece hanging in a museum with a small bore and an inch or more across the flats.
Nowadays people put in a lot of time, effort and money to have upper body strength like that.

[AllanD]

..........I suppose I should have put in there "I believe" that any state recognizes a barrel under 45 cal. Some states even stipulate ignition, as I think Pennsylvania's BP hunting regs specify flintlock only. Other have wierd little deals that you have to dig to find. A couple years ago Colorado outlawed muzzle loader bullets over 2 calibers long. That hobbled the guys shooting Whitworths and Volunteers to shorter lighter slugs then the 45 cal 520gr ones normal to them.

............Buckshot

Flint-lock Ignition is the Requirement only for the Flintlock muzzloader season (Held January as opposed to the earlier fall season), but that also stipulates Patched Round Ball projectiles only...

[arcticap]

Flint-lock Ignition is the Requirement only for the Flintlock muzzloader season (Held January as opposed to the earlier fall season), but that also stipulates Patched Round Ball projectiles only...

I believe that PA does allow any single projectile to be used during its late flintlock season.
The 2018 PA reg's. only specify that it must be a "single projectile".
Even the Traditions PA Pellet flintlock rifle has a fast 1 in 28" twist for shooting sabots.
Why would they name the gun after Pennsylvania if they can't use it during the Pennsylvania flintlock season?
It telescopic sights that are not allowed during the PA late flintlock season.
Has there been a regulation change or a mistake by the website?

From the PA hunting reg's summary page @ muzzle-loaders dot com:

“For the Flintlock Muzzleloader season any flintlock ignition, single-barrel long guns manufactured before 1800,
or a similar reproduction of an original muzzleloading single-barrel long gun .44 caliber or larger, or a .50 caliber or larger handgun, using a single projectile.
It is unlawful to use telescopic sights. Fiber optic sights are legal.”--->>> https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/muzzleloader-regulations-by-state/#penn