Help me protect my mold please!!

[Zander]

Hi guys and gals, lang time lurker first time poster here.

Back late last spring I purchased a casting setup 2nd hand at a yard sale for what seems to have been an absolute steal. I got 2 lee 20lb casting pots some cast iron pots for smelting, approximately 75lbs of wheel weight ingots, 50lbs of roof flashing ingots, 50lbs of range scrap ingots, a NOE 432-265-RF RG2 mold, a lee 310- 430 RF mold, a lee 158-356 RF mold along with other various things for casting, sizing and PCing for a $150.

Anyway, I have been able to get beautiful boolits that works wonderfully in my 44 mag pistol as well as my muzzleloader in a sabot (took my first deer with a hand cast boolit durring KYs early BP season) I am still working on getting something to work out of my old micro grooved marlin 44 mag.

The main issue I've ran into is actually with the NOE mold. I can't seem to get the boolits to release leaving me with having to smack the handle several times with a broken wooden hammer handle to get them out. I have tried smoking the cavities (that works for 10-15 cast) using a toothpick to "polish" the edges of the mold and even using the liquid wrench dry lube (I read about that somewhere on this sight) but nothing I've tried seems to work. Please help me before I destroy this mold by beating on it to much!!

P.S. sorry for the novel. LOL

[Grmps]

Zander - welcome to CB. If you decided to start casting to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.

Never apologize for being thorough in describing a problem. The more we know about the issue the easier it is for someone to help. Pictures are also very helpful (and appreciated)
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There could be several reasons the boolits don't want to release easily.
burs on the edges of the cavities are a big one. get a wood dowel or carpenter pencil and rub the edges of the cavities, this should cure your problem.
If this is a new mold and the rubing the edges doesn't work I'd call NOE before I tried something a little more aggressive

Casting boolits (lead bullets) properly is a science, once you know the basics, not a hard science.
There is a lot of good information on CB. The Google search (top right of every forum page) is a gateway to all the knowledge on this forum. IF you can’t find your answer there ask the question (Please be as detailed as possible, pictures help http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?344661-Capturing-amp-Posting-screen-shots I would be very surprised if there wasn’t someone on this forum that could answer ANY (firearm related) question you might have)
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
1. Boolits need to be cast .0005 to .003 (normally .002) over the slugged diameter of your barrel for accuracy and to avoid leading. If the fit is wrong nothing else will work right.
a. slugging a barrel (it is safer to use a brass rod or a steel rod with a couple of coats of tape to avoid damaging your barrel http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
b. chamber casting https://www.brownells.com/guntech/cerrosafe/detail.htm?lid=10614
or pound casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356251-Pound-Cast-instructions-(for-rifle-chamber)
2. the right alloy needs to be used for the velocity and purpose of the boolit (don’t fall into the trap of going with too hard an alloy
https://i.imgur.com/FD4XW69.png
Economical way to easily test lead hardness
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?355056-Easier-pencil-lead-hardness-testing
https://i.imgur.com/TrOTWFb.png
Some alloys harden over time
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m
different alloy’s different end hardnesses
https://i.imgur.com/O8uvZ8i.png
https://i.imgur.com/MHPjxfp.png
Lead alloy calculator
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
3. velocity the bullet needs to be pushed hard/fast enough to get the proper spin, have the proper velocity to accurately reach the target but not so hard as to be dangerous or strip the lead off in the grooves instead of spinning the boolit..
The boolit needs to be the right weight for the riffling/twist rate of your barrel
Powders range from fast to slow, you need to choose the right powder for your barrel length & application.
Loading manuals list the best powders for certain calibers and boolit weights.
NEVER use any posted noncommercial load data without first checking commercial load data to see if falls in the safe parameter for your firearm!! There are several firearms out there that can handle much higher pressures than others!!
Link to free online load data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

[ericandelaine1975]

If smoking it isn't working for you try Frankfort arsenal's bullet release spray. I've personally never had a problem with just smoking a mold. I use an old kerosene lamp to smoke mine. I've got one mold that i haven't had to smoke my last several casting sessions.

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[Walks]

Eric,
Sorry, I have to disagree with you about Frankford arsenal bullet release spray.
It is absolutely the worst thing I've every used that had anything to do with Bullet Casting. No help at all in getting bullets to release from an aluminum mold. And they will cause IRON molds to rust badly.

[ericandelaine1975]

Eric,
Sorry, I have to disagree with you about Frankford arsenal bullet release spray.
It is absolutely the worst thing I've every used that had anything to do with Bullet Casting. No help at all in getting bullets to release from an aluminum mold. And they will cause IRON molds to rust badly.I didn't know that. I've never used it I've just seen it. All I've ever done was smoke a mold. Good information to know. Now I'll never try the spray.

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[Zander]

Thanks for the replies so far, I have read several hundred questions and replies so far over the last year or so that I've been lurking here and feel I have a pretty solid understanding of the basics. I have resolved my leading issues with what I have cast thus far by lapping my lee sizing die to .431 for my handgun which slugged at .4295 and another die to .434 for my marlin which slugged at .433. My handgun shoots very well with a full load of 296/h110 or 2400 with both the NOE boolit as well as the 310gr lee boolit (which I plan on taking a deer with this year). My rifle on the other hand doesn't seem to stabilize that long of a boolit so I hope to be able to workup a load with the 265gr ranch dog boolit. I try to keep it as simple as possible so I have settled on a high tin alloy to prevent fragmentation out of my BP which I have chronoed just a shade under 2000 fps. My hunting alloy is a 50/50 mix of pure and COWW with 5% tin. This is just a hunting alloy so I don't use many of them. My plinking allow is just straight COWW.

Does your pot temp have anything to do with getting the boolits to release from the mold? It does seem that as I get the pot temp upwards to the 800* mark I have less problems BUT I have read that I'm flirting with running into other problems at that point.

[Dusty Bannister]

I am reluctant to suggest doing too much to the NOE mold as they do have a good reputation for easy casting. Since you did buy it used, it might have some small damage in the cavity that might be the issue. I do not see where it was suggested that you rub a Q tip in the cavities and along the edges to see if you can find a rough spot that will pull fibers from the Q tip.

If you have a thermometer, which it sounds like you do, you might try running about 725 degrees and since it is an aluminum mold, cast at a rapid tempo. This might not be possible if you have sticking castings. Is this only one cavity, or both cavities that are giving you trouble? For plinking, you might try 50/50 soft lead and COWW (with 1% tin) but not the 5% you are already using in the other alloy. Less antimony in the blend will allow a little more shrinkage of the casting and might improve you mold performance. A cooler melt might not fill the cavity as perfectly, which might also allow easier release.

Under magnification, inspect the mold carefully and perhaps you could find an issue in a cavity. Are you using the correct mold handles and are the blocks snug on the handles or floppy? If floppy, the blocks may tilt and bind as you try to open the handles. That might deform the driving bands and make the casting stick in the mold. Dusty

[LenH]

Zander, it appears that you are using a HP mold and those things are tricky to say the least. Those things need to be rocket hot to work properly.

The first one I bought I came close to sending it back and Al almost told me to send it back. After several conversations with Al and a string of
threads here on this board I finally got it to work and it is still stubborn to this day. I heat those things on a hot plate on high for about 30 minutes
before ever casting the first bullet. Then I cast as fast as my old self can cast and the bullets still stick to the pins from time to time. I will remove
the bullet with a pair of needle nose pliers put it back in the pot and give it another go. Sometimes they all fall out just great and sometimes I have to smack
the mold handle bolt an few extra times. I use a lead hammer (use the search tool for lead hammer).


I also use a PID on my pot and keep the temp at 700°±. One thing about the Frankford mold release and the only thing I have used it on lately is the pins
on HP molds. I used it on a mold one time and had to lap the cavities to get it out.

[daloper]

If you are casting HP. You may have to color the pins with a lead pencil to coat the pins with a fine layer of graphite. This may help. Also I tell all new people on this sight that you may want to update your profile to include your location. Maybe there is someone close by that you can get with to get a helping hand.

[lightman]

I've always used a small plastic hammer to open the sprue cutter and tap on the handles. I cut the sprue and open the mold. With the mold open I'll tap on the bolt that holds the handles together. I tap no harder than what is required to get the bullets to fall. This will not hurt the mold as long as the two halves are not touching and I'm careful not to hit the sprue cutter. My soft face hammer is probably 4 oz and the plastic faces are about 3/4 inch in diameter.

I'll stress the point, do not hit the mold, tap on the handle bolt!

You have already gotten a lot of suggestions about how to look for a burr and how to deal with them. Good Luck on this! Oh yeah, Welcome to the site!

[robg]

use two mold alternately as slowing down might help .

[waksupi]

I've had sticky molds. Anymore I just take OOOO steel wool, and polish the cavity edges. You won't hurt the mold, if you aren't foolish enough to be too aggressive.

[mdi]

I don't own a NOE mold but I've always read the quality it tops. Is the mold aluminum, brass, steel? I read on their web site the mold comes with the HP pins along with cup point and flat point pins. If you have one, try the flat point pins. You've gotten a lot of hints/info (and one "manual") but I do not use any kind of release agent on my molds, alum. and steel; no smoke, no spray, no pencils, nuttin'. I normally clean a new to me mold in hot water and dawn, scrubbing well, and liberally spraying with non chlorinated brake clean. I have on occasion polished cavities using a bullet from the mold as a lap and a paste of Comet and oil. The paste won't remove much if any measurable amount of metal and usually cleans up any burrs or small imperfections that will cause a bullet to hang up...

BTW; the Ranch Dog 265 RNFP is an excellent bullet, and I think RD designed it initially for Marlin rifles. I have a couple Lee/RD molds, one for the 265 gr. and one for the 240 gr. and they both work quite well in my 5, 44 Magnums...

[toallmy]

I'm finding as mdi posted my hollow point molds work good without the hollow point pins , I have a couple brass hollow point molds that like to be hot to cast hollow point boolits but it seems the boolits want to drop free from the mold better if I cast cooler or take a little more time before opening and refilling the mold . Play with it you will figure out how the mold wants you to run it . That's part of the fun .

[Zander]

To answer a few questions here:

It is an aluminum mold

I am not using the HP or CP pins only the FN pins

The guy I bought everything from said the handle was a NOE handle

The molds do seem to have some slop, I have tried tightening the mold screws but they are either plenty tight or seized up.

The slop on the mold/handle may be the underlying problem here because I can't even open the mold without tapping the handle as I apply pressure to open. I will start working that angle and see where it goes.

[toallmy]

If I'm not mistaken your saying the mold halves are sticking together as well as the boolits sticking in the cavities .

[Zander]

Yes, they don't just open like the lee molds do. With a full cavity I have to apply pressure to open the mold and tap on the bolt of the handle to get it to open.

[toallmy]

When closing the empty mold does it close easily and completely ?

[PaulG67]

I have had several molds that used to stick, I cured them by lapping the mold cavities. It has never failed to correct the problem. Smoking, or mold release agents are never a good option. IMO

[toallmy]

My NOE aluminum molds seam to cast good and let go of the boolits easy casting at around 700 - 725 , but I only have limited experience with 3 different NOE aluminum molds . One of them gets sticky when ran to fast and hot so I slow down my casting + hesitate a few seconds with the mold open before refilling it until the boolits start dropping out of the cavities easily again .

[RogerDat]

Just a note. You don't hit the mold with a mold whacker. You hit the hinge bolt of the handle. Might try flipping mold upside down, then tap rapidly but not overly hard on that handle bolt. It was first described to me as being like tapping a table with a pencil. Fast tap,tap,tap but not overly hard. For some reason sprue plate down & bottom up seemed to release easier.

The Q-tip to check for snags is good suggestion. NOE molds have an allen set screw that is used to lock the sprue plate pivot bolt at a specific tightness. Comes in from the side of the mold and is inset into a hole. Have to loosen it to adjust. Lee doesn't have that and it would be easy to miss. It is a nice feature. Not backing that locking set screw off when adjusting might explain too loose or jammed tight sprue hinge screw.

Worth checking that holes in the mold block that alignment pins go into are undamaged.

Last resort is to cast bullets. Then center punch through sprue plate to mark center of bullet. Remove sprue plate and bullet, put screw into bullet at marked center, coat bullet with polishing compound, turn or spin bullet in the mold chamber with screwdriver to polish and open up the mold a bit. I have done that to one Lee mold and it helped but never heard of having to do it to an NOE I would look for damage first. Try casting hotter, and upside down mold tap on handle bolt. Or casting cooler. Alloys tend to shrink when they cool.

Just because this worked for me well I'll mention it. I hold the mold using my left hand and tuck the mold mallet under my left armpit so I can reach up and grab the mallet quickly and tuck it back quickly after the bullets drop so my right hand is free to close mold and pour the next one. Helped my flow and speed to not set the mallet down or fumble around with it in my hand.

[GregLaROCHE]

Regarding your micro groove barrel, I have great luck with powder coated boolits in my .45-70 Marlin micro groove rifle from the eighties. No need to powder coat either. You said you had the equipment to powder coat. Have you tried it yet ?

[gwpercle]

I've had sticky molds. Anymore I just take OOOO steel wool, and polish the cavity edges. You won't hurt the mold, if you aren't foolish enough to be too aggressive.

Notice wakesup said polish the cavity EDGES , don't go rubbing that aluminum cavity with steel wool,
just the edges .

[Zander]

Yes, the mold opens and shuts fine as long as I don't have anything in it.

Yes I pretty much PC everything. I have plenty of boolits that are left over from before I started PCing but I found it much easier to PC then to pan lube