Powder Coating and lead hardness?

[squidtamer]

Now, this might be the wrong spot/forum to ask this, if so let me know and I'll re-post if you can't move things about. Did a little searching and didn't find this question anywhere. That could just be me though. This place has SOO much buried treasure that isn't in stickys.

I've recently come into a small (100 lbs) pile of pure lead so figured it would be a good time to ask this.
I'd like to move into Powder Coating my boolits. I'm wondering if this would allow me to move into using less hard alloys or even near pure lead? At least for pistols at first. If that IS the case, I'm curious how soft an alloy one can let things get to with PC, for rifles.

Historically I've had to use some fairly normal "hard" alloys with my rifles. But not as hard as I've seen some young folks using for the AR. But none of my old .30 cal+ children move things quite that fast.

Thoughts?

ST

[Dusty Bannister]

Using the search feature in the upper right corner got over 18,000 hits when I entered
"using soft alloy for powder coated bullets". I do not powder coat, so can not advise on hardness requirements.

[squidtamer]

Yeah I've spent the last couple of days reading up. Yup days. And most every thread ends with: "you should try...." not "here's what works for me..."

Was hoping a couple of folks would chime in and say 'hey 8/9 BHN is fine with PC as that's what I do...' or something along those lines.

[ericandelaine1975]

Yeah I've spent the last couple of days reading up. Yup days. And most every thread ends with: "you should try...." not "here's what works for me..."

Was hoping a couple of folks would chime in and say 'hey 8/9 BHN is fine with PC as that's what I do...' or something along those lines.Im working on powder coating some pure lead bullets now. As soon as I get the powder coat right I'm gonna try it.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Kraschenbirn]

Have never bothered with a hardness test on the mix but 3 parts range scrap (8-9 Bhn) to 1 part COWW with powder coat works just dandy for me. For .38/357, I cast/coat/load everything from mild 'plinkers' for my wife's 4" Diamondback to 162 gr. RNFPs @ around 1450 fps from my Rossi 92; no GCs, good accuracy, no sign of leading. Same alloy/PC combination work equally well for .45 ACP and .44 Spl. but I only load one basic 'mid-range' round for each of those.

Bill

[fredj338]

I think for most pistol shooting, too many worry about bhn. While pure lead may not cast well, it will shoot fine with low pressure loads like 38sp or 45acp. As pressure goes up, your alloy needs to be a bit tougher. I find range scrap, about 9-10bhn shoots fine in 9mm & 40 minor as well as 45acp & midrange mags. Powder coating just makes it less messy.

[popper]

Yes you can use softer alloy with PC but it might not be as accurate, just depends. Something like range scrap is OK in my 40SW but it loses accuracy to the harder. Same with rifle, soft is ok at lower pressure loads.

[tsubaki]

My unknown alloy is coming out at BHN11 and they are also powder coated.
What I'm playing with so far seems to do fine.
44mag 243gr averaging 1410fps with 7 1/2" barrel.
45colt 262gr averaging 1130fps with 6 1/2" barrel, 1510fps with 24" barrel.
357mag 160gr averaging 1175fps with 3" barrel, 1300fps with 6 1/2" barrel.
45-70gvt 416gr averaging 1665fps with 22" barrel.
30-06spr 166gr averaging 2436fps with 22" barrel. 4" groups at 100 yards. I definitely need to work on this one.
300aac 166gr averaging 1500fps with 16" barrel, 1315fps with 7 1/2" barrel.
30-30win 166gr is loaded and ready for evaluation, just got to get to it.

The combination of photo hosts and programs have come to be so fickle lately, I don't know if or how many pictures I might can scare up of the ones retrieved from a dirt pile.
But I'll try.

[tsubaki]

300aac 166gr 1500fps muzzle velocity, retreived from dirt pile at 100 yards
229603

[tsubaki]

45-70gvt 416gr 1665fps retreived from dirt pile at 100 yards
229604

[tsubaki]

This is what was left of the 30-06spr 166gr with 2436fps muzzle velocity retreived from dirt pile at 100 yards

229605

[lightman]

Powder coating will allow the use of a softer alloy to be used. Your soft lead, powder coated, should work ok. Its harder to cast good bullets with pure lead as you can get problems with fill out. Cast and powder coat a few and see how well they shoot.

[Meatpuppet]

I cast almost pure lead cores (just a bit of Tin for mold fillout), PC and then Point Form in a Swage Die. They shoot well. Not quite as well as Jacketed, but good enough for 150yd hunting. I push a 500gr .458 SOCOM at 1000fps with no problems and a 300gr .357 Maximum at 1050 also. I have not "hot-rodded" any dead-soft lead PC boolets.

[squidtamer]

Powder coating will allow the use of a softer alloy to be used. Your soft lead, powder coated, should work ok. Its harder to cast good bullets with pure lead as you can get problems with fill out. Cast and powder coat a few and see how well they shoot.

Yup, and both fill out for everything, and disintegration at super sonic speeds >2000fps is what I'm concerned about. As I've reloaded for 40+ years, but only cast fishing sinkers for the same(time/materials), I'm mostly a nub at the casting side of it. So getting good mold fill out isn't a well known quantity to me yet. While I'm slowly acquiring some good supply, almost _everything_ I've come across has been mostly pure lead so I might have to round up some things to alloy with.

I have decided this is my new favorite shootin' board. I love this place!

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve often wondered the same thing. It seems when you powder coat, the hardness of the powder coating, is what starts to play a major role. You can water quench your boolits to increase hardness and letting them age increases hardness too. You can get some « Super Hard » from Roto Metals. Adding just a little will harden it up. Some tin is also important to get good mold fill.

[natty bumpo]

I cast and powder coat everything from .38 spl. to .308 and have no problems with accuracy at all. Do yourself a favor however and add some tin to that pure lead and your castings will fill out much nicer. A little goes a long way. Powder coating is the bomb. It really works well and is quite easy to master. Tons of video on you tube. Good luck

[natty bumpo]

So I was looking for infomation because I had some boolits that were kind of soft feeling and wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong or possibly just has some sticky wax on the boolits. So I take some advice being thrown around and cooked a batch of .45's a little longer and a little hotter (400F.). Luckily it was only one batch because a third of the boolits melted and another third kinda cooked the powder a little crispy. I think I will go back to 300 deg. for twenty-twenty five minutes and forget about all the good advice from everyone. I'm sure that my oven is running a little hot but I pulled it from the junk pile so I can't take it to the warranty center. The point of this is to advise everyone to find what works in your real world and stick with that and forget about the expert advice. I've been doing this for a good while and I think I'll take my chances on my own from now on.

[jimlj]

I've shot near pure (very soft) boolit that were tumble lubed with alox and had terrible leading problems. The same boolet same load powder coated leaves a shiny clean barrel. (Lee 124 grain tumble lube in a Ruger SR9)

[nueces5]

I've tried that on my 9mm, and haven't gotten it to work under 10 BHN
I have even tried several layers of PC, without success
less than 10 bhn and got keyholes

[HH928]

I've had good luck powder coating range lead for pistol and wheel weights for moderate rifle loads (2000-2400 fps)

[charlie b]

PC is not a magic thing. Yes, it will prevent leading most of the time (if the bullet is fitted properly) but it does not make the bullet harder. And at some point in the velocity spectrum you will need a gas check. I use them above 1500fps.

Pure lead is a problem when casting bullets with grooves and such. Round balls it works well, but, it needs some tin to better fill out more complex mold shapes. How much tin depends on your needs. Many pistol loads are lower pressure and can be made with softer lead. If you think you might want to heat treat you'll need to add some antimony.

I saw mention of rifles and >2000fps. At those pressures a soft bullet will be slammed hard and deform in the barrel. The PC will prevent leading but will not keep the shape from getting messed up. The higher the chamber pressure the harder the bullet needs to be.

So, my recommendation. Find someone who has a muzzleloader and trade some of the lead for tin to help you alloy your batch for making bullets. Might even find someone with some linotype to trade with if you are lucky. For pistols you can get away with just adding some wheel weight alloy (50-50?). Of course you can always go to Rotometals and buy some tin and/or antimony alloy.

Then make up your alloy to match what you are shooting. FWIW, I use Lyman #2 for my rifle shooting. It works to at least 2200fps.

[Grayone]

I think for most pistol shooting, too many worry about bhn. While pure lead may not cast well, it will shoot fine with low pressure loads like 38sp or 45acp. As pressure goes up, your alloy needs to be a bit tougher. I find range scrap, about 9-10bhn shoots fine in 9mm & 40 minor as well as 45acp & midrange mags. Powder coating just makes it less messy.

Ditto, these are my findings too. I cast ~12-15 BHN on rifle rounds powder coated up to ~2200 FPS. I have had no leading issues and get hunting accuracy.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I shoot pure dead soft lead all the time. All my self-defense hollow points are made of the stuff. For 38spl and 45 Auto PC is all that is needed. For 9x19 I found that I need to add a gas check with the PC. In 308win and 7.62x39 I use very soft range scrap with PC and a gas check. They shoot really good. Maybe add a little tin to rifle loads other than that dead soft is fine.

[charlie b]

I would be curious what vel your rifle loads are and how accurate at range.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

In 308win I shoot a Lee RNGC that weighs 176gr and I load with 22.0 of 5744 and I get 1761fps or 1211 ft/lbs. 2.551OAL/0.20jump/2.005" trim.

In 7.62x39 I get best performance with a Lee boolit that weighs 165gr loaded with 19.0 of 5744 and I get 1721fps or 1058ft/lbs with a 2.170COL.

In 308win I get better accuracy without the PC with 7.62x39 I get better accuracy with the PC so go figure.

[405grain]

Super Sneaky Steve: On your 308 loads; It takes very little tin to help the castability of an alloy. You might try adding just a little bit of lead free solder into the pot: not enough to really change the hardness of the bullets, but just enough so that you get more complete fill out in the mold. This might give you some improved accuracy with that load. It will still be "dead soft", just possibly a little more uniform. I've been casting 148 grain solid base wadcutters for 38 Special, and PCing them. I want them as soft as possible, but I was getting some "rounding on the corners" until I added about a 3" piece of lead free solder into the mix. That gave me good definition on my bullets, but I could still dig a fingernail into them.