Lee 45 230 tc

[stumpjumper]

Anyone shoot the Lee 452 230 tc. I loaded a bunch up tonight and several wont chamber. Anyway I think I've figured out my mess up and that is my overall length. Anyone shooting it what did you set your overall at?
Thanks!
.................stumpjumper.

[Dusty Bannister]

How to determine the cartridge OAL with a dowel or cleaning rod.

This is what I use for my guns to determine the max OAL and this eliminates any question of the crimp, incorrect case prep, or other operator induced error.

This method works well on rifles and single shot pistols as well as Semi-autos. You can use a flat tipped cleaning rod, or flat tipped dowel rod. You will also need a sharp pointed pencil, a short dowel and a bullet sized but clean, of the type you are going to load.

For Rifles
Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.

The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.

For Semi-auto pistols
Remove the barrel from the slide and make sure it is clean and free of leading or other debris in the barrel and chamber. The dowel or cleaning rod needs to be longer than the barrel. Hold the barrel, muzzle up, and place the barrel hood on a flat surface like a table top. Insert the dowel or rod from the muzzle and mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove the rod and insert the bullet you intend to use into the chamber and lightly press and hold it in place with the short dowel. Place the assy muzzle up on the flat surface. Insert the rod/dowel into the muzzle so it rests on the nose of the bullet and again mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove and set the barrel aside. The distance on the center of the two lines is the cartridge OAL. Seat a dummy round to this length, or slightly shorter and begin to apply the taper crimp until the dummy passes the plunk test. This is the optimim cartridge OAL length for this bullet in this gun.

You may need to adjust the seater to shorten the OAL if this does not feed from the magazine, but generally this will be a great fit. Remember, if you seat and crimp in one step, you might force a slight ridge ahead of the case mouth and that will screw up your seating.
Dusty

[stumpjumper]

Dusty thank you sir. I'll give it a go in the morning.

[Walks]

Boy that's a lotta work. I prefer to use the O.A.L. from the LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK #4.

LYMAN suggests 1.170 with that particular bullet. That's a good place to start, adjust accordingly.
And is your seating die adjusted to close the case mouth completely. A taper crimp die helps. You can take the bbl out of your pistol and use it as a chamber "checker".

Good Luck

[beemer]

I set mine at 1.175, just kept seating deeper till it fell into the chamber freely and fed properly.

Dave

[Rich/WIS]

Easiest method I have found is a "plunk" test. Remove the barrel and drop a round in the chamber, it should not extend past the end of the barrel hood. If it does adjust your seating die until the round drops in. You don't mention what diameter you are sizing to, a too large bullet in a tightly chambered gun can cause issues. Are you taper crimping? Have found that the amount of taper crimp can affect how well a round chambers, you can sometimes have issues if you try to roll crimp on auto cartridges.

[Dusty Bannister]

"You don't mention what diameter you are sizing to, a too large bullet in a tightly chambered gun can cause issues. Are you taper crimping? Have found that the amount of taper crimp can affect how well a round chambers, you can sometimes have issues if you try to roll crimp on auto cartridges."


This comment is exactly why I use the dowel method. You do not need to measure the bullet, just use that bullet when checking for OAL. This removes the crimp issue as a factor. If it does not chamber, you know it is crimp.

Less work than tinkering with setting the dies to fit the gun by trial and error, but that is up to the individual.

[Grmps]

Boy that's a lotta work. I prefer to use the O.A.L. from the LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK #4.

LYMAN suggests 1.170 with that particular bullet. That's a good place to start, adjust accordingly.
And is your seating die adjusted to close the case mouth completely. A taper crimp die helps. You can take the bbl out of your pistol and use it as a chamber "checker".

Good Luck

This only works 100% IF you use everything the same as Lyman ie. gun, boolit shape, and size

[fredj338]

As you learned OAl will be short for that bullet. OAL is ALWAYS bullet & barrel specific. So you have to fit each bullet to each barrel for optimal OAL. WIth the Lee230TC, Hornady XTP data is a good place to start, they have sim profiles.

[GregLaROCHE]

I agree with Dusty’s method. It’s a good place to start, because it eliminates all other variables.

[Freightman]

I had the same problem, set the OAL and used a taper crimp die settled the problem, couldn't get the roll crimp to work.

[Mitch]

the plunk test is what I use my data is no good for your pistol.Another thing that make a big difference is seating the bullet and taper crimping in separate steps.If you taper crimp and seat at the same time it makes a ring of lead on the mouth of the case and get the failure to got into battery as you describe.Some rounds have the ring of lead and some do not.if you are seating and crimping separate you are on the edge of just right and off a bit.

[Skipper]

1.2" OAL, taper crimp case mouth at .472-.473

[stumpjumper]

Sorry guys long day today. Just messed with it they are .452 sized and 1.210 does the plunk test going to run them 1.200 as does skipper. Thanks for all the replies
........stumpjumper

[Walks]

So you guys load a single cartridge to a variety of OAL to fit every different gun ?

I have 7 different .45 ACP guns. And I'd have to have a different OAL for each of the 3 .45 ACP Loads I use.

One X three for the old SIG-SAUER.
One X three for the RUGER P-90.
One X three for the H & K USP 45.
One X three for the COLT Series 70 Gold Cup.
One X three for the COLT COMBAT GOVERNMENT MODEL.
One X three for the old COLT COMMANDER.
One X three for the .45 ACP cylinder for a RUGER BLACKHAWK convertible in .45COLT/.45ACP.

21 different loads

Thank The GOOD LORD, that l have 30 50rd and 8 100 rd boxes for .45 ACP Brass.

[tazman]

I guess I am lucky in that regard. I have 6 45acp pistols and they all shoot the same loads.

I have one of those Lee molds but don't have any of them loaded at present. It shoots well enough, but I have other molds that shoot as well or better.

[DougGuy]

I have 7 different .45 ACP guns. And I'd have to have a different OAL for each of the 3 .45 ACP Loads I use.

Sheesh somebody could benefit from having a few barrels throated! Look in the barrel from the chamber end, see how many of them have rifling running right down to the end of the chamber. It is more likely than not for modern 45 ACP barrels to have little or even NO freebore at all, this is almost industry standard these days, regardless of what the SAAMI drawings say, so it's no wonder why loading rounds that will plunk and feed happily can be such a chore!

If you have to reduce the OAL, now you have to compensate load data to stay safely within pressures, all this does is create a secondary headache as a workaround to the fact that the barrel has no throat. Plus the short OAL can create feeding problems and contribute to the "3 point jam" syndrome with wadcutters.

The proper thing to do is to have some freebore put in the throat of the barrel so you can seat out as long as you want to, and you don't have to have a filing system to keep track of what guns can shoot what loads.

Stock RO barrel on the left, throated barrel on the right. This barrel will feed anything you can cycle through the magazine:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg.html)

After throating these will plunk and feed nicely, the shoulder of the boolit is actually in the freebore of the barrel when it is in battery, which promotes accuracy by holding the chambered round concentric to the bore, something that you cannot take advantage of by seating shorter to compensate for lack of freebore.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/DSC04486_zpshk4nasdf.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/DSC04486_zpshk4nasdf.jpg.html)

[tazman]

The rounds that I load look much like the ones in DougGuy's picture. I have had DougGuy do his magic on a couple of my barrels and it works like a charm.
Recently, the guns I have purchased didn't have a problem with my loads so they didn't require the work on the throats.
I like not having to worry about whether my loads will work in my handguns. It makes life and loading so much simpler and less stressful.

[Cherokee]

I use 1.185" OAL for my 45ACP loads with that bullet @ .452" and taper crimp to .470". That works in all my guns.

[mdi]

Boy that's a lotta work. I prefer to use the O.A.L. from the LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK #4.

LYMAN suggests 1.170 with that particular bullet. That's a good place to start, adjust accordingly.
And is your seating die adjusted to close the case mouth completely. A taper crimp die helps. You can take the bbl out of your pistol and use it as a chamber "checker".

Good Luck
+1!

I always start with the bullet manufacturer's recommended OAL, or in this case Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, and rely on the plunk test to verify correct chambering. For my rifles, as the last item on my list for accuracy improvement, is distance to lands experimenting, For my semi-auto OAL I start with book data and if I feel necessary I'll lengthen the cartridge until they no longer pass the plunk test 100% and back odd mebbe .010". But the normal payoff isn't really much, if any better than bullet mfg. info/data...


So you guys load a single cartridge to a variety of OAL to fit every different gun ?

I have 7 different .45 ACP guns. And I'd have to have a different OAL for each of the 3 .45 ACP Loads I use.
Not necessarily. I have 2, 45 ACP and 3, 9mm pistols and set the OAL for the "tightest" chamber. Works for me. But I do tailor loads for each of my 44 Magnums. "Custom" bullet diameter for each revolver and rifle (down to 3 different diameters) and a different diameter for my single shots. OAL will vary in my 5 guns between revolver, rifle, and single shot. I am down to 4 bullets and can use one for each gun as they have their "preferences"...

[Walks]

OK,

So I was a bit sarcastic, with the 21 loads.

I have 3 different loads, PERIOD.

I load the LYMAN #452374, seated to the start of the OGIVE & taper crimped. FULL POWER LOAD. Works in all my .45 ACP handguns.

LYMAN #452488, seated to the edge of the bearing surface. Loaded light for Target use, it functions in all 1911 Handguns. All of which are ramped/throated. Just change the spring weight. Works well in the Blackhawk, GREAT accuracy.

RCBS #452-201-SWC/KT, seated to edge of bearing surface & taper crimped. Loaded to a Full charge this is a Combat type load that functions in all guns. It's the load I take to the range for punching clean holes in paper, with the "furrin" guns and RUGER Auto.

[fredj338]

So you guys load a single cartridge to a variety of OAL to fit every different gun ?

I have 7 different .45 ACP guns. And I'd have to have a different OAL for each of the 3 .45 ACP Loads I use.

One X three for the old SIG-SAUER.
One X three for the RUGER P-90.
One X three for the H & K USP 45.
One X three for the COLT Series 70 Gold Cup.
One X three for the COLT COMBAT GOVERNMENT MODEL.
One X three for the old COLT COMMANDER.
One X three for the .45 ACP cylinder for a RUGER BLACKHAWK convertible in .45COLT/.45ACP.

21 different loads

Thank The GOOD LORD, that l have 30 50rd and 8 100 rd boxes for .45 ACP Brass.
NO I choose my worst case scenario & load my ammo the same for all the diff guns.

[Walks]

Fred,
You didn't read my 2nd post.