Electrical question regarding Lee 20lb pot with extension cord

[Namerifrats]

I have a Lee 110 volt 20lb pot. The area I have set up in my garage for casting doesn't have any power on that wall. I would have to run an extension cord maybe 15ft across the garage to my table. Would a 16 guage outdoor extension cord be sufficient without getting hot and posing a fire hazard as well as provide necessary power to the pot? I have one outlet that is closer but it's on the ceiling where the garage door motor for that side if plugged in. A cord from there would only need to be 6ft long. I would also run a fan over there as well to blow heat and any smoke/fumes out the door, but it would be on a separate cord from another outlet.

[454PB]

You should have no problems, the Lee pot only uses 6 amps.

[Namerifrats]

You should have no problems, the Lee pot only uses 6 amps.

Very good! Thanks!

[NyFirefighter357]

700 watts at 120 volts to amps=6amps
0-50' 16ga extension cord good for 10amps.
Yes it will hold the amperage but if it's on a 15 amp breaker the cord will melt before the breaker trips if there is a short. I always match the cord/wire to the breaker amperage. You'd be better off with a 14ga cord.

[Namerifrats]

700 watts at 120 volts to amps=6amps
0-50' 16ga extension cord good for 10amps.
Yes it will hold the amperage but if it's on a 15 amp breaker the cord will melt before the breaker trips if there is a short. I always match the cord/wire to the breaker amperage. You'd be better off with a 14ga cord.

Good info. It would only be plugged up and used when I was in there with it, concrete floor also...but might grab one just to be safe.

[tazman]

I am using mine on a 20 foot extension cord. Not certain of the rating of the cord, but it is a heavy cord. The cord doesn't get warm at all and the 10 amp breaker has never tripped.

At one point, when I was in a hurry, I used one of those cheap, short extension cords you can buy for about $1. It worked, but when I unplugged it, the cord was very hot. Never used it again.

[sharps4590]

A dead short will trip a breaker long before the cord has time to melt. At least that's been my experience after 42 years of being an electrician and 37 of those as a Master. An overload is a different story. Taz, if it's a breaker in your panel you're talking about at 10 amps, I think you're mis-interpreting the interrupting current.

[Loudy13]

I ran a extension cord from my house to the garage for a winter 75' and made tons of bullets it was a good quality heavy duty cord but it worked. Now I have 90 amp service in the garage...much better.

[Petrol & Powder]

I didn't need 15' but I did need about 8' to reach the outlet that was close by. I just cut the cord on the pot and permanently spliced in a section of zip cord (same gauge as existing cord on the pot). Now I don't need to hunt down an extension cord when I want to use the pot.
Some solder, shrink tubing, zip cord and 10 minutes - done !

[rancher1913]

I never buy any extensions cord under 12 gauge, I figure it will get used for stuff besides what I bought it for and want it to be big enough to handle most anything down the road.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Just a heads up ...Be careful... if you decide to add a hotplate to your casting setup.
Because a 16 gauge extension cord is a bit light to run both (Lee pot and a 1000+ watt hot plate), actually a 14 gauge is probably a bit light as well. My hot plate is an older 1500W unit and it needs it's own circuit.

[tazman]

A dead short will trip a breaker long before the cord has time to melt. At least that's been my experience after 42 years of being an electrician and 37 of those as a Master. An overload is a different story. Taz, if it's a breaker in your panel you're talking about at 10 amps, I think you're mis-interpreting the interrupting current.

Please explain. I am not understanding what you are saying. Possibly a vocabulary issue on my part.

[rancher1913]

a dead short will spike the amps way high and trip the breaker long before the extension cord gets hot enough to melt. a 14 guage cord that is pulling to many amps but not enough to trip the breaker will overheat and melt.

a 10 amp breaker is very rare, most are 15 or 20.

[Grmps]

https://i.imgur.com/cueQc9i.png

[tazman]

a dead short will spike the amps way high and trip the breaker long before the extension cord gets hot enough to melt. a 14 guage cord that is pulling to many amps but not enough to trip the breaker will overheat and melt.

a 10 amp breaker is very rare, most are 15 or 20.

Apparently the person who installed the breakers in this house was paranoid about electrical problems. All the breakers are lighter than I would expect to find. I have changed a number of them where loads are a bit higher as in the kitchen and workroom.

[RED BEAR]

i would think any extension cord would be ok . if you have a cord that would not handle 700 watts i would like to know where it came from i use a light weight one from the dollar store when i want to cast outside for the same pot.

[lightman]

I agree that a 16 gauge cord would carry the load that your Lee pot pulls. But like JohnB says, it may not carry your pot and anything else. I would go buy a short 12 gauge cord dedicated to your casting operation. They are pretty inexpensive and then you won't have to worry.

[Hannibal]

Apparently the person who installed the breakers in this house was paranoid about electrical problems. All the breakers are lighter than I would expect to find. I have changed a number of them where loads are a bit higher as in the kitchen and workroom.

That's perfectly fine *IF* the wiring is heavy enough to handle the circuit breaker change.

If you aren't sure, I'd highly recommend you find out or have someone who knows what they are looking at to inspect your service panel.

Small wire and a large capacity breaker is just about as dangerous as the old copper penny in the fuse box trick.

[tazman]

That's perfectly fine *IF* the wiring is heavy enough to handle the circuit breaker change.

If you aren't sure, I'd highly recommend you find out or have someone who knows what they are looking at to inspect your service panel.

Small wire and a large capacity breaker is just about as dangerous as the old copper penny in the fuse box trick.

My house was built about 20 years ago in a county that has zoning and they have always taken their building codes seriously. I took the cover off the breaker box just 2 weeks ago to inspect some things. The wires in the box are all up to code and could easily handle more current than the breakers will allow.
For the most part, this hasn't been an issue. I have one breaker that trips for the kitchen if too many small appliances are used at once.

[sharps4590]

Ok, first off 10 amp breakers either are, or, have been available but they are special order and it would be HIGHLY unusual for any electrician to install them unless specifically required for a particular piece of equipment and usually something like that is taken care of at the equipment by a fused disconnect where the fuses are the protection for the equipment and the breaker is the protection for the wiring. As has been pointed out 15 and 20 amp are the most common, 120 volt breaker sizes IN RESIDENTIAL application. The "interrupting current" of residential breakers is 10,000 AIC, "Amps Interrupting Current". I have seen that abbreviated on some residential breakers as "10K AIC" and have a had a lot of customers over the years tell me they have "10 amp breakers" in their panels when they don't. There should be a number 15 or 20 on the either the breaker body or the breaker handle specifying what the amperage is of the breaker. After, as I said, 42 years of doing this for a living I really doubt you have 10 amp breakers. If you do, yours is the first I have ever heard of and I have never seen it.

I have known of some old time electricians who would put 15 amp breakers on #12 wire and there's nothing wrong with that except that the safe capacity of the wire is not available. As per NEC, in residential applications, #14 wire is good for 15 amps, #12 is good for 20 amps and #10 good for 30 amps, #8 for 40 and #6 for 50 or 60, depending. If those are exceeded one is in violation. After that Section 310-16 is the "go to" article in the NEC for wire ampacities as the type of insulation has a bearing on the capacity of the wire as well as wire size.

In nearly all commercial applications I've worked on the AIC is specified to be 20K, AIC. I don't remember what it is as voltages got higher as in 277/480 and the old 230/460.

[tazman]

Ok, first off 10 amp breakers either are, or, have been available but they are special order and it would be HIGHLY unusual for any electrician to install them unless specifically required for a particular piece of equipment and usually something like that is taken care of at the equipment by a fused disconnect where the fuses are the protection for the equipment and the breaker is the protection for the wiring. As has been pointed out 15 and 20 amp are the most common, 120 volt breaker sizes IN RESIDENTIAL application. The "interrupting current" of residential breakers is 10,000 AIC, "Amps Interrupting Current". I have seen that abbreviated on some residential breakers as "10K AIC" and have a had a lot of customers over the years tell me they have "10 amp breakers" in their panels when they don't. There should be a number 15 or 20 on the either the breaker body or the breaker handle specifying what the amperage is of the breaker. After, as I said, 42 years of doing this for a living I really doubt you have 10 amp breakers. If you do, yours is the first I have ever heard of and I have never seen it.

I have known of some old time electricians who would put 15 amp breakers on #12 wire and there's nothing wrong with that except that the safe capacity of the wire is not available. As per NEC, in residential applications, #14 wire is good for 15 amps, #12 is good for 20 amps and #10 good for 30 amps, #8 for 40 and #6 for 50 or 60, depending. If those are exceeded one is in violation. After that Section 310-16 is the "go to" article in the NEC for wire ampacities as the type of insulation has a bearing on the capacity of the wire as well as wire size.

In nearly all commercial applications I've worked on the AIC is specified to be 20K, AIC. I don't remember what it is as voltages got higher as in 277/480 and the old 230/460.

I went back to the breaker panel and checked again and you are correct. They are marked 10,ooo aic in white letters where the 10 is easy to read and the rest not so much. The actual amperage is a molded number on the handle where it is not highlighted or readily visible, at least to my old eyes. The breakers are actually 20 amp breakers.
Thank you for the information. You saved me some unnecessary expense and worry.
229133

[lightman]

Ok, first off 10 amp breakers either are, or, have been available but they are special order and it would be HIGHLY unusual for any electrician to install them unless specifically required for a particular piece of equipment and usually something like that is taken care of at the equipment by a fused disconnect where the fuses are the protection for the equipment and the breaker is the protection for the wiring. As has been pointed out 15 and 20 amp are the most common, 120 volt breaker sizes IN RESIDENTIAL application. The "interrupting current" of residential breakers is 10,000 AIC, "Amps Interrupting Current". I have seen that abbreviated on some residential breakers as "10K AIC" and have a had a lot of customers over the years tell me they have "10 amp breakers" in their panels when they don't. There should be a number 15 or 20 on the either the breaker body or the breaker handle specifying what the amperage is of the breaker. After, as I said, 42 years of doing this for a living I really doubt you have 10 amp breakers. If you do, yours is the first I have ever heard of and I have never seen it.

I have known of some old time electricians who would put 15 amp breakers on #12 wire and there's nothing wrong with that except that the safe capacity of the wire is not available. As per NEC, in residential applications, #14 wire is good for 15 amps, #12 is good for 20 amps and #10 good for 30 amps, #8 for 40 and #6 for 50 or 60, depending. If those are exceeded one is in violation. After that Section 310-16 is the "go to" article in the NEC for wire ampacities as the type of insulation has a bearing on the capacity of the wire as well as wire size.

In nearly all commercial applications I've worked on the AIC is specified to be 20K, AIC. I don't remember what it is as voltages got higher as in 277/480 and the old 230/460.

Sharps4590 made a good guess. I was thinking the same thing and his later post confirmed it. I've had customers do the same thing. Most residential equipment was once rated at 10K but is being increased to 22K. I'm guessing that this may be because building practices have changed. You once had large lots and long overhead services and now smaller lots with larger underground services are more common. A 10kva transformer and 100 ft of #4 won't produce 10,000 amps of fault current but a 50kva transformer and 100ft of 4/0 will easily exceed that. This is to keep the equipment from failing, or exploding, if it has to operate. Prolly more than most wanted to know about fault current!

Some breakers or more dependable than others. When I was working I favored Square D's QO line. The older grey handle CH were good too. FPE was notorious for not tripping and in my mind the jury is still out on the older GE's. As to sizes, I have seen 10 and even smaller size breakers but 15 and 20 amp and larger will be about all you will find for sale.

When I wired houses I never used any wire smaller than #12. Not even for the switch leg. I fused the multi outlet circuits at 20 amps and the single outlet circuits, ie the washing machine, dish washer, ect, at 15 amps. This was just me, many others have done differently.

[lightman]

I went back to the breaker panel and checked again and you are correct. They are marked 10,ooo aic in white letters where the 10 is easy to read and the rest not so much. The actual amperage is a molded number on the handle where it is not highlighted or readily visible, at least to my old eyes. The breakers are actually 20 amp breakers.
Thank you for the information. You saved me some unnecessary expense and worry.
229123

Your attachment is not working for me but I'm guessing that it may be a picture. You are correct, the breaker rating should be on the handle. It may or may not be in a different color. I'm glad that you did not pay an electrician to change out all of your breakers. Most electricians would have shown that to you before charging you for doing the work, but................

[Mal Paso]

14ga is useful when the lighting designer wants 12 switches in a 2x4 wall, otherwise 12ga.

Square D QO has a 10 amp breaker but I've never seen one in an AC panel. I use them for solar as they are rated to 48 volts DC too.

[sharps4590]

As LED has become more common I don't see a thing wrong with #14 for lighting. If properly loaded I didn't see anything wrong with it pre-LED. If a conductor is loaded correctly at the 80% of capacity, what's the difference between breaking 4/0 USE-2 at 200 amps or #14 at 15 amps? Both are properly protected.

I semi-retired about 3 years ago and only work about 15-20 hours a week....and less than that for about 3 more months. I was unaware the residential AIC was being increased. For what you described, lightman, it makes perfect sense. I'll have to watch next time I buy any breakers and see what's on them. Most of what I do these days is change switches and repair fixtures for Grandma....and others....lol! Do a lot of LED updating for my commercial customers. I couldn't agree more with your opinion on breakers. I have found the Homeline, Square D series to be good but when we built I put in QO. I wouldn't get up out of my chair for a GE unless I needed a cheap welder. The tan handled, CH series, by Cutler Hammer, (I assume that's what you're calling gray handled?) I think is as good as QO. I'm kinda still on the fence about their BR series. You sure see a lot of BR switch gear locally and given the cost of Square D I'm not surprised. FPE got in trouble with UL...and for good reason. The old FPE, wide bodied breakers were pretty good but after about '78 or '80 they went to the dogs and those Slim Lines were never worth spit. FPE did make good switch gear. Some of that old stuff I've taken out was built like a tank. I don't believe I've seen more than 1 or 2, 10 amp breakers during my entire career and those were in a BIG hospital....what the heck they were for I don't know, probably a motor load or maybe a little bitty isolation transformer.

taz, you didn't do anything a thousand others haven't done. Why wouldn't a fella think that's what his breaker was if that's what he saw and didn't know what it meant.

Ha...just got a service call. Ordinarily I WOULD NOT go on a Saturday afternoon but they're long time customers and it's gonna be down in the 20's tonight. Better go.

[Mal Paso]

Ha...just got a service call. Ordinarily I WOULD NOT go on a Saturday afternoon but they're long time customers and it's gonna be down in the 20's tonight. Better go.

Writing about Service Work disturbs The Force. LOL

[kevin c]

This a pertinent thread for me.

I cast on my deck. One outlet there, to which I connected EVERYTHING: casting pot, mold preheating hot plate and lighting for the cooler nighttime sessions. No problems until I also rigged a feeder pot to the casting pot. If all three elements cycle on, the breaker trips.

I guess the safest thing is to run at least one element on a different circuit, maybe only one each on three circuits?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It depends on the Hotplate, Most old ones are 1500W and it should be run on it's own circuit.
Two Lee pots (6 amps each) will be fine having both on one circuit.
That's my 2¢

[kevin c]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[lightman]

You might consider running a circuit to your deck just for this purpose. Depending on how your house is wired its entirely possible that the existing outlet could be on a circuit with one of the rooms in your house, thus having other stuff on it. You can calculate the load of your casting equipment by looking at the name plates. The load should be listed as either amps or watts.

[kevin c]

You weren't off the mark there, lightman.

A close gander at the legend on the panel shows that the outside outlet is on a circuit that supplies the whole front of my house: living room, dining room, office, bathroom and deck, about twenty outlets all told, and it's only a fifteen amp breaker. No wonder it tripped.

[lightman]

You weren't off the mark there, lightman.

A close gander at the legend on the panel shows that the outside outlet is on a circuit that supplies the whole front of my house: living room, dining room, office, bathroom and deck, about twenty outlets all told, and it's only a fifteen amp breaker. No wonder it tripped.

Its pretty common in residential work to have outlets on a common wall share a circuit. But, thats a lot of stuff on a circuit even though the normal loads in those rooms are pretty light. You can verify what is actually on that circuit pretty easily by turning the breaker off and checking the outlets with a lamp or test light. You might consider getting an estimate on running a dedicated circuit if you plan to continue casting there.

[redhawk0]

Here is another thing to keep in mind...you're not going very far with that extension cord so NEVER coil up the extra length while its plugged in. If you do it will act as an inductor and heat up enough to melt the insulation of the coiled part of the extension cord. Leave it lay out straight...or just a few loops loosely coiled or random loop diameters if you have to.

I found this out the hard way before I became an EE. I was an early teen and had a 100 ft cord that I was running a electric fry pan off of our patio. The extra extension cord was wrapped around a "spool" and in less than 5 minutes....pooof.

redhawk

[Hossfly]

Each circuit breaker should only supply 7 outlets including light switch. When I wired my house in 2001. Ended up using 98 outlets,10 in garage one every 6 feet, just for future use, all 12 gauge wire
Not bragging just listened to older eletriction, except he wanted to soldier all connections, and not use wire nuts.

[kevin c]

Thanks for the suggestions, and apologies to namerifrats for the hijack.