Building new melting pots

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Guys
Some questions for you, as I am new to this type of making my own casting equipment,

I dug out some of the casting equipment, has been setting unused for the last 10-15yrs,
3 different elect pots and all 3 quit had working.........:x

So, I decided to start over and build the proper setup, a med/large melting pot bottom pour, to render down the pure lead,
make small ingots to use in a smaller elect pot, for casting my pellets etc.

I got a empty HELIUM tank that used used to fill balloons, used the sawsall to cut it, AFTER filling it with truck exhaust fumes,
the bottom half is about 6"" tall and 9-1/2" in diameter, but I have NO Idea how much lead it will hold, filled up to 4-5".

My question is, the thickness of the metal, which is about .065" thick, (Helium tank),
and I have doubts about it being strong enough to work, over time etc,
it appears to be decent quality of metal, I think.

The older 5 gal LPG tank, cut in half is about .100" thick, but is quite rusted inside,
so not sure of it's value, for converting to a melting pot etc.?

I have an Idea about how to make a bottom pour, with the pour outlet heated via the LPG gas,
with a big burner to prevent freeze ups, which will be a lapped in tapered valve, welded into the bottom,
with the outlet up to about 1/2" tall where the lead flows out, with the usual methods of using/filling etc.

And then there is a small LPG tank, setting here looking at me,
that is 9" in diameter and 12" tall, that has LPG smell coming from the valve........ :o
that has set open for a long time............

I think the small LPG tank (better steel) may be a better option, in the long run.

Your thoughts or suggestions, do doing this safely...........

Tia,
Don

[CastingFool]

A cut down helium tank is exactly what I use to smelt my wheelweights. Yes, the walls are thin, but I have used mine for about 10 yrs without any problems. I store it outside, just below my bbq grill. I use the side burner to smelt lead.

[country gent]

On the helium tank if you wanted to Stiffen it up some bend a snug fitting ring of 1/8" X 1" and weld it in place around the cut edge. this will stiffen the top quite a bit and the sides some. Another thing is to cut a ring from the tank used and tack weld to bottom making a full dia base to sit on this makes it very stable in use.

I made a propane tank pot from a 25 lb cylinder. I cut the bottom 3-4" from the bottom radius up. removed the original base and welded the 4" ring on it. it sits very stable on the burner stand. Holds around 130 lbs and with the concave bottom ladles really well. Another plus to the full sized base ring is most of the heat is contained on a bottom pour set up most of it will be contained under the pot in this ring

[kevin c]

A cylinder with a 9.5" internal diameter and 6" tall has a volume of about 425 cubic inches. That's about 165# of pure molten lead.

What is that helium cylinder made of? I have a pot that's a twenty pound propane cylinder cut in half. I have put two hundred pounds of lead in it with plenty of room to spare and the thin steel (a little Google search gave me a minimum spec of 2.27 mm thickness) doesn't show any sign of not being able to handle the load. My impression of gas cylinders I've seen is that they're made of heavier steel, and rated to 2200 psi or more, way higher than a LPG tank.

If you don't use the gas cylinder as a melting pot, you could weld a ring on the closed end and use it as a bell. Very popular as an accompaniment to certain actvities among a certain set (NOT mine) out here in California.

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County Gent

Thanks for the info.

I was thinking about doing that, so I could add a bail/carrying handle and it would also give me a place,
to bolt/weld the standoff for the valve down rod, which I want to keep the down rod as close as possible to the sides,
(to have as much room possible for stirring/cleaning etc), and still have a straight shot as possible to the outlet valve head,
that will attached via welding or HD threaded ring on the bottom.

The top of the exit valve hole will be 1/2-1" above the bottom of the tank,
and the down rod will be some SS rods I have available, tapered to a 60* cone, and will match the 60* taper of the valve seat,
on the top of this rod, and will lapped in, there will be a spring to force the down rod closed, and prevent any leaking, I hope.

On the bottom of this tank, there is 4 dimples pressed in, for feet, too narrow for me, about 4" apart,
I like your suggestion about cutting a smaller band to go around the bottom, for a wide base, and contain the heat.

I planned on leaving a narrow slot, 2-3" wide, in this ring for the bottom pour piping exit point,
which will be heated via the burner, preventing any freeze up on the exit pipe etc.

Would 3/4" to 1" slot/hole every inch around this ring top provide enough heat to travel up the sides,
from the main LPG burner/heat source?

I am reading all the posts in this section, from oldest to the newest, and have found some good into, but very few photo's etc,
showing the different parts made by other members, (a picture is worth a 1000 words) as they say.

Tia,
Don

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Kevin C

Thank you for the amount of lead possible for this tank,
I don't plan on filling to the rim, as I have bad hands/wrists,
and feel the weight would be too much for me to handle safely etc.

This Helium tank is the type used for filling Balloons, and is .065" thick and unknown steel type to me,
it does have a very nice ring to it when struck, but I am not into bells, LOL.

Tia,
Don

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Casting Fool

Thanks for that info, gives me a vote of confidence for it's strength etc.

Did you coat/paint (high temp) the insides, to reduce any sticking of lead?
Did you add any material, welded band around the top edge for extra strength?
I plan to, for a bail/handle and the inside valve down rod attachment points etc.

This tank is so clean and pretty inside....LOL

Tia,
Don

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Guys,

What diameter of the bottom pour piping should I use?

I believe that black pipe would be best, I am thinking 1/4" pipe size would be enough?

Have a 90* elbow, a very short section of straight pipe, then another 90* elbow straight down, for pouring ingots.

There will be a slot in the bottom base stand for the exit of this pipe, which will be kept hot via the LPG burner,
so I wont have to worry about freeze ups etc.

Which would be the best angle of the valve seat/down rod, 45* or 60* angles, I can make either.

Any other suggestions or Ideas, or photo's would be a great help,
and will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Don

[country gent]

I cut the ring and used a square and dividers to lay out the holes around the edge. I used the square set to 1/4" to give distance back from edge then a set of dividers to layout the 8 evenly spaced holes. I used a wrap of masking tape to lay out with a pencil. Set the dividers close and a small mark around and adjust in or out as need to get 8 evenly spaced marks. I then cut the holes wth a 1 1/2" hole saw. I cant give the spacing on the propane tank in inches since I didn't actually measure it. I set the dividers to what looked like 45* on the tank worked around and adjusted them as needed to hit the first mark when the holes were layed out.

[Ramson222]

My bottom pour pot, uses 1/2 pipe, you dont want to use 1/4 I tried it any tiny piece of scrap will give you problems, if it gets pulled into the spout. Also a 223 fmj makes a perfect fitting weld plug in 1/4 pipe and will take forever to remove. Believe me I tried it. Fmj bullets expand and most of the time explode when in a melt. This one just expanded and perfectly fit the spout.

If you can weld a scrap yard will have everything you need. My pot uses a 12" burner, and a 12" dia section of pipe with 3/8 walls. I purposely used a long section of pipe to help reduce the amount of o2 in contact with the lead.

The long section also let's me have a good 4" of ash on top of my melt, which helps reduce o2 contact and the chance of a steam explosion.

If I was going to build another. The things I would make different are: use 3/8 plate for the bottom instead 1/4 and mount the burner lower. Also I would use yokes made out turnbuckles instead or making my own from scratch. They look and work much better than scratch made ones.

My pot counting the burner, hose, fittings and regulator cost me $120. Just the pot cost $50.

With the wind screen I added, 1/4 of a propane tank made about 270lbs of 10lb ingots. A full tank should be good for about 600lbs of ingots.

Here is a thread with some pics of my ingot maker.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?368095-Flaming-Bertha-the-ingot-maker&p=4460650#post4460650

[Ramson222]

For the yoke on the lever, buy a turn buckle, cut it in half, then weld a bolt that fits the turnbuckel onto one end of your lever. This way you get a nice adjustable yoke on your pot.

I used a 45degree angle on my valve rod.

You will also need to lap the valve rod to fit the hole in the pot, otherwise it will leak.

If you need any more help just message me. I went through a lot of trial and error to get my own bottom pour working.

[CastingFool]

Casting Fool

Thanks for that info, gives me a vote of confidence for it's strength etc.

Did you coat/paint (high temp) the insides, to reduce any sticking of lead?
Did you add any material, welded band around the top edge for extra strength?
I plan to, for a bail/handle and the inside valve down rod attachment points etc.

This tank is so clean and pretty inside....LOL

Tia,
Don

Hi Don

I did not coat the inside, the resulting rust does a good job of keeping the lead from sticking. Also, I did not add anything to the edge for extra strength. I only used a file to get rid of any burrs or sharp edges. I wish I had added a ring around the bottom to help keep the heat in, and make the pot more stable. This was mostly due to ignorance, but we learn from our mistakes.

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Country Gent

Thanks for the info,
Will get out the equipment and lay everything out,
as I have to leave a 1-2" wide door for the bottom valve exit etc.

Tia,
Don

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Ransoom222

Thanks for the info,
I am building a smaller pot for 22 cal pellets and smaller ingots etc.

There is no scrap yards around without a 50-100 mile drive 1 way,
so I have scrounge it from the local dump, when available.

My valve outlet will be 1/2" to 1" above the pot bottom, so I should be good to go, I hope,
it will be a tapered cone valve with lapped seats etc.

Tia,
Don

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Casting Fool

Thanks,
I will be adding a fire ring to the bottom, as I'll have a bottom pour valve,
should help keep it hot enough to prevent freeze ups.

I am attempting to get the best tank setup possible, with as few mistakes as possible
so I am stealing a little bit from everyone's tank set ups, I can find etc.

Trying to learn for this type of melting pot set up etc,
so I'll build a small one first to learn, then go to a build one to cover everything else.

Tia,
Don

[Ramson222]

Ransoom222

Thanks for the info,
I am building a smaller pot for 22 cal pellets and smaller ingots etc.

There is no scrap yards around without a 50-100 mile drive 1 way,
so I have scrounge it from the local dump, when available.

My valve outlet will be 1/2" to 1" above the pot bottom, so I should be good to go, I hope,
it will be a tapered cone valve with lapped seats etc.

Tia,
Don

The little pieces of steel from the wheel weights and other scrap will float ontop of the melt and cause clogs.
Unless your going to never empty the pot, bellow the level of the valve, then its fine.
Just put the valve outlet in the bottom.
With it on the bottom the scrap stays clear of the outlet until the last drop.

[Ramson222]

here is some close up pics of my pot. Everything you need to know should be in the photos.
22891622891722890822890922891022891122891222891322 8914228915

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Ramson 222

Thanks for the photo's, they'll help me,

But, Me thinks you missed some of the info, on what I posted, ;)

Here is what I posted, Post #14,

"My valve outlet will be 1/2" to 1" above the pot bottom, so I should be good to go", I hope,
it will be a tapered cone valve with lapped seats etc.

I had planned on leaving the small amount of good clean lead in the bottom, for next session, as I'll have clean ingots to start with etc.

I am making 2 of these type of pots,
a smaller one casting my 17/22 CF calibers and including air rifle pellets,
and the larger one will handle every thing else up to the 44/45 calibers, and making more ingots etc.

Thank you,
Don

[Ramson222]

I would just make a larger one and use that to melt scrap into ingots. Then buy a lee bottom pour and thermometer to do all the bullet casting. This way your bottom pour pot will only ever be used with clean alloy. This is how I and many others operate.

I knew that you wanted smaller pot, I just thought the pics of my big one would help. I didn't realize you were making a pot for casting bullets. I don't think other's realized this either, after I went back and read through the thread.

It will be very hard to control temp with a propane fired pot.
You also wont be able to use it inside because of carbon monoxide build up.

[Ramson222]

Anyways post some pictures when you are done.

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Ok Guys

Step 2,
I have the Helium tank cut in half, trued up, cut the top off the tank and split down the side,
this leaves a ring that is about 6+" tall, to use as a wind screen/sheild and will direct the flames up the sides for about 4+".

I have the (top of the tank) curved section turned up side down and slipped around/up the walls from the bottom,
about 4" to direct the remaining heat to travel up the sides, and this leaves about 2" of empty space below the tank bottom,
where I will mount the LPG High pressure 4" diameter burner inside this ring.

There is about a 2+" wide opening for the bottom pour pipe, 4" long to exit the bottom ring,
with a 1/4" black pipe elbow pointing down, for filling ingot molds etc.

The valve is SS with a 60* bevel for the stem which will also have a 60* cone to fit inside the valve,
and the top will extend 1" above from tank bottom, and I will lap these 2 together just before final mounting.

There will be a triangle piece that comes out from the inside of the tank wall,
and the valve rod will be bored/threaded thru this piece, and go straight down to the valve top,
and be less than 3" out from the inside wall, to leave as much as possible of clear space,
for cleaning the dross/trash out etc.

I plan on adding a 1/2 to 3/4" wide x 1/8" band around the very top,
which will welded along the very top edge to the pot, and will have a 1/4" bail handle attached thru this top ring.

Some of the questions I am not sure about,

I can't decide,
If I want a push down thumb lever system with a spring return assist,
or a screw type system for controlling the lead output,
with 1/8" pour hole or slightly larger diameter, thru the valve exit,
I have 1/4" black pipe elbow pour spout that screws on the SS valve.

Will a 1/4" clear space around the tank sides, be enough to allow enough good heat to go up the 4" sides,
or would 1/2" space be better?

I have not attached anything together yet, as I am NOT sure which way to go,
or if I have the correct/enough dimensions for everything to operate correctly yet.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Tia,
Don

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Guys

I'll ask again........ as I don't know the answers, :?:

No one, has any thoughts or suggestions to the questions I have asked above?

Tia,
Don

[lightman]

Theres probably not a wrong answer on the pour handle, its more personal preference. 1/4 inch space around the sides should be adequate. I'm thinking 1/4 in on the pouring spout may be a little small for filling ingot molds. Please post up some pictures when its finished.

[Hossfly]

1/4’’ around pot like lightman says should be plenty for getting heat to come up and cover bottom for effecient heat, you could go 1/2’’ with more flow but less eff. You could close up later if you could be able to reach with some type of seal, just to have that option would be great. And I would try to install larger opening for bottom valve, you could always reduce down or adjust your stroke on top lever travel if too much flow.

[nvreloader]

Thanks Guys

I have the equipment to make a cap to fit the 1/4" BP exit spout, and I can make any sized exit hole needed,
what I did not want was a big gush of hot lead splashing all over, when fill my smaller ingots, that are 1/2" to 3/4" dia x 7" long.

I think I way a way to start with 1/4" gap/spacing for the heat shield around the tank, and can widen it to 1/2" if needed,
by adding some spacers etc.

I don't think that this pot would work very well, for casting my air rifle pellets,
so I'll see if I can fix my old lee bottom pour pot and get it back into operation,
I think the heater core went out.

Tia,
Don

[airone46]

I used a 10 kg GPL bottle, cut at about half of its height. The thickness is very robust, and I've never had any deformations! I used the bottom, because I did not want valves! I use a large kitchen ladle or a small stainless steel pot to take the melted lead and pour it into a mold with 12 cavities for muffins !!! An ingot weighs about 2 pounds. The Lee INGOT MOLD gives me 4 pieces for a total weight of about 3 pounds, but it did not last long! The handle burnt and tended to come off: VERY dangerous !!! And then it costs as much as 2 molds of 12 muffins!
I filled the mold with the ladle or the small saucepan, covered the old mold with an old wet blanket, and filled another mold. In the meantime the lead of the first mold was solidified, but it was always very hot: I emptied it in a first metal bucket, and then I passed it in another full of water, and I went on like this! So the molds were always DRY!