Bad Knees

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've had bad knees most of my life. This week was a bad week for my right knee...I won't type out all the details, as it'll take an hour or two.

Anyway, after a minor twist incident to my right knee yesterday, and more pain then has ever occurred before (I couldn't put any weight on that leg), I would have fell to the ground, if I didn't catch myself on my car (happened at the dollar store parking lot).

I made a Dr appt this morning, they did some xrays...first time my knees have been xray'd. Not much cartilage left, torn meniscus is suspected in Right knee. They gave me, my first shot of cortisone. The Left knee looks far worse, but currently there is no pain there, so they did nothing about that...It's probably just a matter of time before I am needing a couple new knees?

Anyway, any comments about Cortisone shots?
The Dr said it may take 2 to 10 days to take effect and then how long it lasts is just a guess?

[lefty o]

cortisone is different for everyone. if it works for you could be almost immediate to a week to feel it. the "rooster comb" injections are less destructive to the existing cartilidge.

[Hickok]

Jon, I feel for you as I have been down the same road. Got my new knee last March, and go back in March 2019 to see about getting the other knee replaced.

The cortisone wont last.

May the Good Lord ease your pain!

[1911sw45]

Cortisone will eat what cartilage you have left and weakens the surrounding tissues. They not going to do anything for the tear?

[725]

similar history, here. aside from being a fat body that had to run excessively for work & sports, I did a "step in the hole" injury that really did me in. cortisone was marginal in my case. eventually, had the ravens doc (football team) clean out some of the debris and it got better. not new, mind you, just better. various treatments will work. good luck

[Walla2]

There is no hard and fast rule for cortisone. My left needed about a week for it to take effect. It has lasted almost two years before another injection was needed this spring. The right knee took effect within a day. It also has lasted for some time. My wife's knee injection lasted only two weeks and the pain returned. I hope you have success with yours.

[Preacher Jim]

John I lived on cortisone for 4 years in both knees finally getting to point it does not help. As to meniscus tear small surgery trim it great relief from pain. my next is 2 new knees.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Cortisone will eat what cartilage you have left and weakens the surrounding tissues. They not going to do anything for the tear?

The tear is suspected, they'd need to do a MRI to confirm it's actually torn. Scoping it would be discussed after an MRI. Honestly, they gave me the choice today on what to do, ...I chose an injection and see how that goes.

[MT Gianni]

I had a cortisone shot in the bottom of my foot that kept me working on it for 18 months. Second shot didn't do a thing.

[Hickory]

any comments about Cortisone shots?

Before I had my knee replaced I had gotten nearly a dozen cortisone shots to it to help with pain.

My doctor told me that your body can only take just so much cortisone and I was "past the limit" I begged him for what was the last shot I have had. He said that he would do it on the condition that I have a knee replacement, so with that I agreed to have it done.
It's a scary thing to give someone permission to cut out part of you body and replace it with something that may or may not work.
Knowing what I know now, I would have had the knee replacement done several years before.

[JBinMN]

Anyway, any comments about Cortisone shots?
The Dr said it may take 2 to 10 days to take effect and then how long it lasts is just a guess?

The Dr description is accurate, IMO, has been the result for cortisone shots in my knees & my ankle. The knee ones "took" for a good while( been some time since I had those.), while the 3 ankle ones( left ankle/most recent, all at same time) lasted about 2 weeks, with the pain & swelling returning & then I just let it go for another 2 weeks to just let it heal on its own without more shots.

They are expensive, at least to me they are, with a result as described of not knowing how effective they are. I will likely not pay to have any more again unless it is the last choice for treatment. I felt as though, with the ones in my ankle anyway, that I just should have rested more & let the ice/heat/elevation/rest regimen do the work, rather than the expensive shots that are "iffy".


We are all different. I hope it works great for you.
G'Luck!

[Tom W.]

At different times I've had my shoulders lock up and had to have cortisone shots. The needles looked like they were for elephants or something. The first time was wonderful. The doctor told me to put on my shirt and go home. I didn't even know he had started, let alone finished. Haven't had a problem since.

The second time wasn't so easy. The injection was painless, but I had to endure P.T. for two months, and that was awful. I still have the rubber bands and pully thing that I was to strap over the door and pull. The Dr. that gave me the shot, in the Houghston Clinic in Columbus, Ga, said to take a dish towel and throw it behind my back, grab both ends and pull back and forth. A lot.
It worked.

[Preacher Jim]

Jon there is also shots of rooster comb that have helped several folks find relief. My knees are bone on bone it did not help me any.

[Dieselhorses]

I had a cortisone shot in right knee over 5 years ago from family physician due to popping, locking etc.. Never had a problem since. Back in May of this year I managed to tear the meniscus in left knee. There is a "red" and a "blue" area, red meaning where blood can access and heal and blue where it cannot thus virtually shutting down any hope of full repair. My options were to have it "scraped" or go to therapy. Due to arthritis, Dr. said neither would likely do anything. For some reason it's doing a lot better on it's own. Of course it's been 5 months.

[Grmps]

Sorry to hear that Jon, welcome to the "getting older and starting to fall apart" club

[bikerbeans]

In 1998, after an MRI, an ortho doc told me i needed my right knee replaced. I owned my own business at the time so i refused. I kept working and putting up with the pain and swelling for 11 more years until pulmonary emboli forced me into early retirement. The last 9 years my right knee has remained swollen but only one time has hurt so much i couldn't walk. I think the pain has mostly subsided because my activity level has dropped so much. I ain't running or driving 16 hours a day like i did when working. I assume the 65 pounds i dropped also is helping my knee.

I hope the coritsone helps you. It is a big deal having OEM parts replaced with aftermarket.

BB

[popper]

Don't get them. Uncle used to get them for a different problem, just caused more trouble. I had the rooster shot several years ago, lasted about a month. Dad was really bone-on-bone, shot didn't work either. Her BIL (Nashville area) got the knee replacement last week, seems to be doing fine now with a walker. Talked to him 6 mo. ago about it, seems his doc has a new procedure where they move all the joint tissue aside and do repairs vs cutting and re-attaching stuff where recovery is LONG.
Scope surgery is pretty good for cleaning stuff up.
Woke up with a real bad calf cramp couple days ago, she asked me today how I'm doing - well, the tongue works OK. Poor knees, shoulder, back, ankle & gut. Getting eyes fixed in a couple months. Sure is **** getting older.

[DerekP Houston]

My father is getting regular injections every few months now, sounds very similar to yours. Very little cartilidge in either knee and torn miniscus. One surgeon said he would slice an dice to fix, but the 2nd said once they open him up there is more likely too much damage to fix. The shots seem to work for him now, they get him moving again for 6-8 weeks until they wear off, then he limps for a month and schedules a follow up. They are not a long term solution but he is putting off the knee replacements as long as possible.

[LUBEDUDE]

It’s true that people react differently. Throughout my life, all of my buddies responded great to to C injections. I’ve had the injections in about every place you can think of and I don’t respond to them at all, except for my thumb.

Whenever I would complain to a doctor about a certain joint they would want to do a shot. I would tell them that I don’t respond. Their reply ALWAYS was, “well you didn’t have ME administer the injection”. I would feed their ego and let them do it. Of course it didn’t work.

You also have to be careful on the frequency of injections. Whenever you get one it suppresses your adrenal glands to make natural cortisol. If you have it done too much, you can suppress those glands to no effect. That’s why my thumb doctor would not do more than twice a year and would not go long term with the injections.

One other thing, the injections can cause bone loss in the hips, back and other other areas. Since most of us here are Seniors that is not something you want to sacrifice.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I had injections in my right knee a couple of years ago, and they worked great. I haven’t needed more. My lower back now that is a different story. I had injections on both sides of my spine. It didn’t help my left side at all. It helped my right side for about two weeks, and when they wore off, my back is now worst than it has ever been. It is so bad that I went to the ER on tuesday. I can’t get another appt with the “shot doctor” till nov 11. The ER doctor referred me to a spine surgeon. I saw him yesterday. He needs a couple xrays before he can make a diagnoses. I get them on monday and see him again tues. Right now, I have a hard time walking to the bathroom. I bought a cane and need it for every step. I guess I won’t be deer hunting this year.

[smoked turkey]

Jon, I don't envy you in having knee problems. Having said that, I will also say that in my line-up of "older" friends, that knee replacement seems to be very common. For the most part my friends are getting along fine after the process. I know that it will never be as good as the good Lord made for you at the start, but it is getting so they have the procedure down pretty good. I hope the injection works good for you and it will give you relief and mobility for a long long time. However if it does not there is a pretty good option.

[LaPoint]

Jon, I'm sorry to hear that your knees are giving you problems. Sounds like you're headed for knee replacement in the near future? My mother had both of her knees replaced about 6 years ago. She recovered very quickly and has great mobility considering her other medical problems and age. She is 84 now. My wife has had meniscus tears and the associated surgery in both knees. One she recovered quickly. The other one not so much. She has recovered now and is doing well. Good luck and find a very good orthopedic surgeon.

[RogerDat]

The shots work to different degrees on different people or same person and different injury or area. Helped my back but only for a month or two however those were very good months. Spine surgeon said that told him that where they put the shot is where the problem is. Found a bone spur was really pinching a nerve, surgery helped. Had them for a shoulder and didn't help all that much I think it comes down to how well the do at hitting what needs the "juice".

Knees all I can say is the only reason to wait is you are too young. They don't like to do people under about 55 because they are more likely to outlive the knee and replacement at 70 is not good. Second time is not nearly as easy as the initial replacement. However you also don't want to wait until you are so old they won't do it for fear of putting you under and doing surgery.

Sister had both knees done, and because her company was going to drop insurance coverage she had both at once. Not good idea. Do one and follow through on all the physical therapy exercises so the knee doesn't become "frozen" from scar tissue growing between bone, muscle, and skin. Then do the second knee.

Depending on age and activity level you can end up with a pain free knee for the rest of your life. But start with the shots and go forward with planning to get the surgery scheduled. Replacement is a fix, the shots are temporary relief. Unless you have an injury that the shot helps heal rather than an underlying worn out joint.

Plan on exercise regime to help back and core, work with PT to get one planned for you to do at home. You fix knees that have been bad for a long time and it shifts alignment of spine and hips. Both can cause you discomfort. So exercises to help the areas that have to adapt to the new knee alignment and stride will be very much to your advantage.

[xs11jack]

1911sw45 is right on. Cortisone in the long run will cause permanent damage. The doctors at the VA hospital has been using the rooster comb gel for more than 10 years. When I got mine knees gelled the told me that the gel doesn't damage the area at all, but cortisone will.
Ole Jack

[Wheelguns 1961]

Are cortisone and steroid injections the same thing?

[nicholst55]

Discuss other injections with your Orthopedic Surgeon - not a GP or Family Med doctor. There are Supartz, Synvisc(SP?), and other drugs that are much less damaging to your remaining soft tissue and last much longer than Cortisone. They are typically administered in a series of injections spaced a few weeks apart. However, if your knees are like mine, you will have to face the reality that once they're shot, it's time to replace them.

[nicholst55]

Are cortisone and steroid injections the same thing?

Yes, they are.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Yes, they are.
Thank you

[buckwheatpaul]

Jon, my wife had bone on bone and the shots did not work....she had a knee replacement about 9 weeks ago and she is up and running ..... she had a lot of pain for the first 2 to 3 weeks but presto chango the pain just went away......good luck brother.....Paul

[indian joe]

Wow! two pages of it and not one hint about proper diet - repairing the damage with natural supplements - alkalising our systems
Glucoseamine - chicken cartilage - gelatine - Boron - silicon (horsetail) - quit eating any grains at all - no sugar - a hundred things to try most of which will have some good effect for somebody
When we stand straight and look down we sposed to be able to see our toes - not our belly button
One cortisone shot is one too many
I am worse than you guys because I know what to do and have let myself go - can only see the very tips of me toes:D
That feller with the scalpel has six kids in an expensive school and his wife needs a new porsce - the system needs us sick! They were never taught nor are they interested in learning anything about preventative medicine or proper nutrition .

[Mr_Sheesh]

Cracked Meniscus in one knee, arthritis in both. Had arthroscopic surgery after a few years on the meniscal tear, that fixed that side's swelling up to basketball size and reduced pain a lot. Changing MD's helped a lot too!

I've had Cortisone shots in knees but for me after the first few they just make my knees hurt. Your mileage may vary, we're all different. First few times they also were removing fluid from my knee capsules, like 40ccs on each side.

Tried the rooster comb gel (Hyaluronic acid) and the first shots helped a LOT, a few years; Just got the second set recently and thinking they'll last some time too. Takes me a couple days after the shots to recover, as everything re-adjusts somewhat. Helps a LOT though - for me - It's like a lube job for your knee joints.

[Char-Gar]

My left knee has been junk since 1958 when I tore it up in gymnastics. I finally had it replaced about 20 years. It is now junk again and the right knee is as bad or worse. My lumbar spine is now also junk having lost 5 inches in height. So the knees are the least of my problems.

I just use a cane and drink whisky when it gets to bad. No more cutting on me! All the cutting and shots do is just pospone the inevitable, so why not deal with it and get on with life. The pain is not going away long term.

"The only people that don't have pain are dead people"...Dr. B.K. Kandaval, Rhumatoligist in Midland Texas 1992.

[LUBEDUDE]

The Rooster gel, Synvisc type shots have a totally different purpose than Corticol Steroid (Cortisone) shots.

The first type is to lubricate the joint similar to the body’s natural lube, synovial fluid.

This C shot acts to reduce inflammation. Sometimes they add an anesthetic to the C to help with pain.

Two totally different treatments for different conditions of the knee.

[Rick N Bama]

Jon there is also shots of rooster comb that have helped several folks find relief. My knees are bone on bone it did not help me any.

I had my 4th and final "Rooster Comb" injection this past Monday. So far I'll have to say that it's working very well as I now have no to very little pain in it. My brother in law had it done over 2 years ago and his is still working for him. I'll do just about anything to stay away from a replacement.

[tja6435]

Jon, I sent a pm. I may be able to help reduce the pain in your knees.

[DerekP Houston]

oh hrm, i didn't know there were different variations on the shots I just assumed my dad was getting the steroid. I'll ask him at dinner next week he might be getting the fluid replacement as that's what he needed, the cushioning between bone.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I had my 4th and final "Rooster Comb" injection this past Monday. So far I'll have to say that it's working very well as I now have no to very little pain in it. My brother in law had it done over 2 years ago and his is still working for him. I'll do just about anything to stay away from a replacement.


oh hrm, i didn't know there were different variations on the shots I just assumed my dad was getting the steroid. I'll ask him at dinner next week he might be getting the fluid replacement as that's what he needed, the cushioning between bone.

Speaking of different procedures/injections...I don't recall the name or many of the details, but my friend had something like Tennis elbow, caused at work, by lifting/adjusting heavy rolls of paper above head level. He had a procedure that removed some blood, it was 're-worked' or some components removed and maybe something added? and then injected into his elbows...this required two visits and maybe a third, but he didn't need the third. It has worked for him so far, it's been about 10 months and he was off lifting restrictions at about the 6 month mark.
>>>Question? Is that how Rooster Comb is put into your system?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

While I haven't had my coffee yet...I'm not even into this cortisone shot 24 hours yet, as the Doc said it'll feel great in the first few hours, due to a numbing agent...and it did, but the real effect may take 2 to ten days...and this morning, it is hurting, but is walk-able...I hope it gets better, I am counting on it.
sidenote: I'm usually stiff and sore all over, til the coffee kicks in :coffeecom

In response to a PM from Kevin:
I'm pretty sure I'll be rolling the dice for knee replacements next time I need to see that Doc, if they are willing to do so? but since I'm not that old (53), who knows if that will be an option?

I've had bad knees for a long time, basically for my whole adult life. Could be partly hereditary? both my Dad and I have Osgood-Schlatters, mine was both in youth, then disappeared, but came back in my right knee as adult. Also, my Mom had her first knee replaced in 1985 the second a few years later...She was about 55 for the first...She blamed being a bank teller, standing on a hard floor for 35 years. Those replacements were a long time ago. It was great for my mom. They told her they last 10 years or so...she's still going on those same replacements...but due to her fall this year and hip replacement due to injury, the doc asked about the knees and had some x rays done and said he is amazed they aren't giving her pain...Mom said, OH there is some pain, but it's tolerable. But now at 88 and having had them done before, they don't suggest new replacements...unless something unexpected bad happens.

I am 53, some say the docs won't do replacements on us younger folks, which is why I put off having my knees looked at, even though I've had some various problems in the last two decades, each event they got better. BUT, this week, when I honestly couldn't walk after I did this mild twist, I HAD to go in...and glad I did.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Good luck! I hope everything works out in your favor.

[lefty o]

Speaking of different procedures/injections...I don't recall the name or many of the details, but my friend had something like Tennis elbow, caused at work, by lifting/adjusting heavy rolls of paper above head level. He had a procedure that removed some blood, it was 're-worked' or some components removed and maybe something added? and then injected into his elbows...this required two visits and maybe a third, but he didn't need the third. It has worked for him so far, it's been about 10 months and he was off lifting restrictions at about the 6 month mark.
>>>Question? Is that how Rooster Comb is put into your system?

the rooster comb stuff is just an injection. for the most part it is just a lubricant for the joints.

[wv109323]

A meniscus tear is repairable with orthroscopic surgery. Cortisone may help but it is temporary. Most times 3 shots is all a doctor will give you. If the cartridge is gone then a knee joint replacement will be needed. Cortisone will relieve the pain. I am sure an mri will be ordered to determine what is needed.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I think mine were 4ccs in volume. Not heard of the blood related procedure, hmmm.

[Echo]

I had cortisone injections in my L4-5 area a couple of years ago. Lasted about 2-3 months, had it again, again lasted 2-3 mos, had it again, no joy. the next procedure I didn't care for, so am addressing L4-5 problem a different way. Regarding knees, I had a new left knee put in 3-4 years ago, and just minor problems. Right knee is still OK...

[Col4570]

Having been almost crippled with pain for some years in 2005 I eventually had two replacement Knees,six months between operations.Since then I have been pain free and at 81 years of age still enjoy Shooting.Prior to my opps I did have Cortizone injections that eased the pain for a limited time but that treatment cannot be sustained for a long period.Good luck with your future treatment for a very painfull ailment that can be cured by surgery.

[Rick N Bama]

>>>Question? Is that how Rooster Comb is put into your system?

My Dr uses Ultrasound to find where to inject the fluid. He then injected some Lidocaine as a numbing agent, then he injected the medicine. The shots were spaced 2 weeks apart I received two in the outside and two in the inside of the knee. The whole procedure for each injection probably didn't take more than 5 minutes. After each the knee was wrapped in an Ace Bandage to make sure the medicine stayed in. I was told to wear the bandage for at least 4 hours.

The Blood thing is a procedure where they pull a vial of your blood, spin it in a Centrifuge to separate the Platelets then those are injected into the knee. Insurance will not cover those and my Dr charges $500.00 an injection.

[Wis Tom]

I had two cortisone injections, the first one took about a week to work, and lasted maybe a month. The second one stirred things up, and hurt more than it helped.

[wgr]

I took al the shots I could. Had to get my knee replaced After 10 years of shots

[Mr_Sheesh]

Had the "rooster comb" injections in both knees, last week; PT Monday and the next 6 weeks, the horror! LOL

It should help though, even though I hate having (pick one of: Physical Therapy, Personal Terrorist, Physical Torturer, Personal Torturer, you get the idea) appointments. A lot.

The Hyaluric Acid (Uncertain I am spelling that right, SynVisc is one trade name for the stuff) injections DID make my knees sore for about a week, pretty sure most any injection into the knee capsule will do something like that though! They make it better after that though.