Lead Exposures Among Employees at a Bullet Manufacturing Company — Missouri, 2017

[dbosman]

If this isn't the right area, please move it and accept my apology.
This is a CDC report from their Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR)that resulted from the CDC being called in to inspect, by the bullet company.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6739a7.htm?s_cid=mm6739a7_e

[CJR]

dbosman,

What relevance does this article have to bullet casters on this forum? Obviously, the employees, in this article, are working eight (8) hour days and 40 hour work weeks inside a closed building. Everything mentioned in the article about lead levels can be very easily controlled with some simple options that are not "Rocket Science". Serious bullet casters may cast large quantities a couple of times a year while outside in fresh air. I've been casting since about 1957. Likewise, I've had numerous routine medical exams and blood tests over my entire life. NO doctor has ever told me that I have an elevated level of lead in my body.

The report just appears to be another liberal left-wing attempt to stop/regulate bullet casting. Give me a freaking break! Maybe you need to post this article on some left-wing media site that's interested in eliminating the Second Amendment and regulating bullet production. In my view, this article is BS. Take that from a guy who has conducted research, in multiple fields of science, and authored and presented international technical papers.

Best regards,

CJR

[Wheelguns 1961]

It is not an article! It is a report from the CDC. Center for disease control.

[zymguy]

not eating in bullet production areas seems reasonable. I found this interesting and I'm glad it was posted. I read this as if we continue with some simple precautions we're fine. These people were breaking rules we know. If they had been doing everything right and had elevated levels Id give it a second thought. My over valued $0.02

[Wheelguns 1961]

What I found interesting is that they had lead on their hands after washing them. Maybe I should start wearing gloves. I have high blood pressure and am wondering if this is contributing. I think I will get tested.

[CJR]

Wheelguns1961,

With all due respect. This is not a report. The title; "Notes from the field" etc. Scientific reports document how the testing was preformed, what equipment was used and lists the actual data obtained and cites how the data was analyzed. This is an article.

Best regards,

CJR

[gwpercle]

I don't care !

[reddog81]

What I found interesting is that they had lead on their hands after washing them. Maybe I should start wearing gloves. I have high blood pressure and am wondering if this is contributing. I think I will get tested.

That was my thoughts as well. I wear gloves while casting, but often times handle the lead before hand with my bare hands. If I buy some cheap "lead handling gloves" I'd pretty much eliminate any direct exposure.

I wonder what level of hand washing they are doing that allows lead to remain on their skin? I have heard that lead is pretty easily washed from your hands.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Something else intriguing was lead away soap. Anyone ever heard or have used this.

[dragon813gt]

Something else intriguing was lead away soap. Anyone ever heard or have used this.

I use it as a precaution as I have two little kids. The brand is D-Lead. It’s not really necessary but I took every precaution when they were babies.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I use it as a precaution as I have two little kids. The brand is D-Lead. It’s not really necessary but I took every precaution when they were babies.
Thanks, good to know.

[Jackpine]

Interesting article, altho pretty limited in scope. I have had my blood level checked annually for many years. I what I would consider a fairly low amount of casting, only in outdoor settings, always wearing a mask. I am careful with loading to the point of being paranoid. I do act as a range officer and timer operator at well over a dozen shooting competitions a year, where I am in close proximity to thousands of rounds being shot. My blood level has never been lower than 8.5. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to find where the level of "5" or above being considered elevated comes from. As a competitive shooter, I have asked dozens of people about their blood levels and have never found anyone whose test results were less than 7. I have also never found anyone who was not a competitive shooter who had ever had their blood tested. I do not know if all shooters have elevated lead levels, or if most folks off the streets have levels that would fall into the "high" category.

In my limited research I have learned that their is supposedly a fair amount of lead particles released from the primer detonation and lead residue left in fired cases. Anecdotal evidence points to the possibility of exposure from dust generated from tumbling cases for cleaning in dry media and exposure from being in close proximity to repeated firearm discharge.

What I do know is that my doctor is not concerned about my levels. OSHA, an organization which is known to cause all kinds of issues for business over trivial issues, does not take any action unless levels are above 20.

As I said, my levels have never been below 8.5, and a year ago I tested higher in the spring, had a retest done in Sept which was 32 and then three months later was down to 16. Ironically, a friend, who had the tests done within days at the same two labs that I used for the test and retest, got almost identical results. Coincidence, lab issues or ? I have no idea.

Sorry, no real insights, just my experiences.

Jackpine

[Victor N TN]

We had a liquid soap in a plain squeeze bottle at work with a label that just said D-LEAD. I thought it was something they made at work... We didn't machine lead a lot. But there was always some in the shop. It was either finished parts or parts waiting to be machined.

[pjames32]

I am interested in this report. I've been smelting and casting for 50 years and have annual checks. So far I'm good and want to stay that way. Any ideas to reduce my exposure are welcome. I do smelt outdoors and cast indoors with an exhaust fan. Thx for posting.

[NSB]

I worked for many years in a plant that coated radiator tubes with lead back when they were making copper/brass radiators. I supervised thirty-one tube mills and each mill had a lead pot with thirty-five hundred pounds of molten lead in the pot. I had a three shift operation for a total of over ninety employees handling lead and the products that were coated with it. In a three year period where I managed that operation I had only three employees with elevated lead levels. It was found that these employees ignored many of the safety protocols and training that they were given regarding working in this area. I found employees heating their lunches on top of the lead pots, smoking and sitting the cigarettes on the work surfaces, and they were not wearing gloves when handling the lead ingots. They were taken off the job and moved elsewhere to work. Over time their lead levels returned to normal. Basically, they simply failed to follow instructions. There's nothing worth noting in the OP. No one needs to suffer from lead exposure if they follow common sense safety rules.

[jimb16]

I've been tested a couple of times specifically for lead. I don't cast as much as I used to, but they never found any increase above normal background trace amounts. I quit worrying about lead a long time ago. I just continue to use the usual safe practices.

[country gent]

Our can lines had a lead pot on them for years ( 3 piece cans) Probably 80 lbs capacity. Had a little feeder for the 10 lb ingots. this was used to solder the can bodies side seams. Originally 99% pure lead was used then in the late 70s to early80s they switched to pure tin. Now its all 2 piece cans. These ran for a long time Machines were new in the 50s. I dont remember any lead exposure issues with osha, missing gaurds, safety switches not working, blind corners needing mirrors and the like mostly. For better than 100 years cans side seams were lead soldered to seal and hold vacuum.

[Mr_Sheesh]

"these lesions were caused by molten lead." is the part that gets me. No PPE gear? Or bad PPE gear?

[NSB]

"these lesions were caused by molten lead." is the part that gets me. No PPE gear? Or bad PPE gear?

We gave every employee sleeves to wear when loading the pots. The one's getting burned were NOT wearing them like they were supposed to. You can't fix stupid.

[GregLaROCHE]

I had a very high blood level after collecting range scrap and making ingots. For a month until my next blood test, I was truly worried. I did a lot of research and I am convinced that the possibility of getting lead poisoning from a recreational use is real.

I was lucky. I got a big dose during a short period of time. That is much better than getting a small dose for a long time. When the lead is in your blood, your body can eliminate it if you stop being exposed to it. When you are exposed, even at lower doses, the lead gets into your organs and bones where it takes a lot longer to be removed and can do the most harm.

How do you know if you are being poisoned or not? This is a difficult question, because it normally affects people in later life and has symptoms that are the same as we attribute to old age. Don’t guess. Get a blood test. You have to ask for it as it is not usually tested for in routine blood tests, unless there is a known risk.

A few months ago I posted about my experience with links to info on the subject. Search in the forum for my threads if you’re interested. I’m done preaching. If you don’t believe it exists that’s your right.

[NSB]

You're going to get a lot more lead in your blood from shooting those bullets indoors than you are in making them. Poor ventilation is a big cause of lead exposure.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm always a bit suspicious about anything the CDC says when it comes to anything firearms related.

The CDC has a long and well documented bias against firearms.

Attempts to increase the regulation, and therefore the cost of firearms and ammunition production, is just one tool in the CDC's anti-gun agenda toolbox.

The liberalism that permeates the culture of the CDC is inescapable. The CDC has a role in the safety of our country and they do provide an important function BUT they also need to be held in check.
ANY report from the CDC that is related to firearms is very suspect. While the actual science may be sound, it's the political application of that science that concerns me.
How many people remember the CDC's report of firearm related deaths of children that included people well into their 20's as "children". That same report included justified homicides of criminals as firearm related accidental deaths of "children" (like when police or citizens used deadly force to repel the attack of a 20 year gang member intent on causing serious harm or death). Or when two 18 year old criminals shot each other?

Any report from the CDC related to the firearm's industry probably has another agenda beyond what most of use consider to be public health.

[Kraschenbirn]

I always take these government reports with a grain of salt. A good friend owned a fairly large bullet casting operation (Bull-X) for several years. Company provided (and required use of) safety equipment...glasses, gloves, aprons, masks, etc...and had all employees tested annually. Never had a single report outside OSHA guidelines. First time I had myself tested on an annual physical, my provider went nearly ballistic because I actually had a "significant lead exposure". Was well under OSHA numbers but, according to their lab, NO lead exposure is "acceptable". Did some research and found that HMO's lab was using an NIH standard intended for children under the age of 10...not really applicable to someone with a 'residual background count' from growing up in the age of leaded gas, lead-based paints, and cast-lead toys.

Bill

[GregLaROCHE]

You're going to get a lot more lead in your blood from shooting those bullets indoors than you are in making them. Poor ventilation is a big cause of lead exposure.

You’re 100% right. Since I found out what I know now, I’ve been staying away from the indoor range. I also bought a respirator for when I melt lead. I hope I use it. I’ve always been the type that didn’t care that much that that kind of stuff. I’m sure it will be a real pain and take some of the enjoyment out of making boolits.

[mattw]

@Kraschenbirn I so miss the days of Bull-X, I still have a decent stock of their 45's and 357's. A group of us would buy by the truck load at least once per year. Carter was always great to deal with.

[Wayne Smith]

Not only is it not a report, it is bad 'science'. They specifically state in two places that "all lead air concentrations were below the permissible" OSHA levels. Yet in two places they conclude that it is likely that employee lead eposure was throught inhalation. A conclusion specifically not supported in the data presented.

[wv109323]

The bullet company asked niosh to participate in the study. Another thing not mentioned was the length of exposure. I assume long term employees. The question becomes what will lead levels be after precautionary and mandatory corrective actions are taken.
Thanks for posting the original post.

[dbosman]

dbosman,
What relevance does this article have to bullet casters on this forum? Obviously, the employees, in this article, are
CJR

It lets most of us know we're doing pretty well at avoiding contamination. Did you not understand that the casting company called for the testing? They proactively sought confirmation that they were following good practices to avoid ending up on the bad side of antis. The CDC went in looking for levels of contamination that they didn't find.

I'm sorry you saw it as a personal attack on your right wingnut fly off the handle attitude.

[Hickory]

As mentioned above, casters may only be exposed to lead for several hrs. per week. (Maybe)
Precautions to take while casting.
1) Have plenty of ventilation.
2) Wear protective equipment, gloves.
3) Wash hands and face several times after handling lead or lead products.

[RED BEAR]

i have had slightly high levels of lead. 20 to 30 . i don't especially take precautions when casting i drink my coffee on occasion i will eat something while waiting for the lead to melt . i just don't cast for a month and my levels drop back to normal. the things i encountered at work were far worse than lead exposure. graphite bronze aluminum dust totally shot my lungs. but it was my own fault as a heavy smoker i didn't wear safety gear because i wouldn't be able to smoke. now is that my employer's fault NO IT WAS MINE!!! you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. my point is if these people don't use the safety gear then they have no one to blame but there self.

[CJR]

dbosman,

Thank you for your criticism of me. I do appreciate it. I do understand what the casting company, cited in your article, was doing to improve THEIR operation. How can that article verify your statement, "It lets most of us know we're doing pretty well at avoiding contamination". In my view, the more relevant issue, for casters on this forum, is; "Is MY particular/SPECIFIC casting technique producing lead contamination in my body?" So if you're really concerned about the lead levels in your body, get a medical blood test done FIRST. Speculating about what your blood lead- levels are in caster's bodies(on this forum), based on citing a "Notes from the Field" article about what one lead casting company did to improve its 40 hour work week operation in a "enclosed-environment" is comparing "apples to oranges". That article is NOT relevant to typical individual cast bullet casting. In my view, if a caster on this forum has concerns about lead levels in his/her body then a simple inexpensive medical blood lead-level test is the first step. IF your blood lead-levels are high then you can initiate new casting techniques/procedures to reduce your blood lead-levels, followed by periodic follow-up blood lead-level tests to insure YOUR blood lead-levels have been lowered and are staying low. IF one's blood level-levels are already low, then NO new techniques are needed to reduce blood lead-levels. As I stated before, " this is not rocket science"!

Finally, isn't it Great to be an American and be able to FREELY speak your opinion? God Bless This Great Country! Particularly, when a liberal states I have a "Right wingnut fly off the handle attitude". That proves very clearly to me why this article was posted on this forum.

Best regards,

CJR

"Right wingnut fly off the handle attitude"

[GregLaROCHE]

One good thing the article did, by way of being posted here, is raise awareness to this potential health risk. A lot has been said here and I am sure a lot of people have been reading this post. Now it is up to the individual, to decide what they want to do about it.

[Thin Man]

Having read several articles about lead poisoning over the past few years I began asking different doctors I visit to order lead level testing during my blood tests. All this comes from a foundation of beginning casting in 1973, taking a job as LEO in 1975 (issue sidearm was a revolver, issue ammo lead RN), assignment as agency armorer (cleaned and repaired many revolvers before switching over to autos, plus shotguns firing slugs and buckshot), expanding my casting fun with more molds than one should have but the fun keeps on coming, retirement doing much of the previous in a firearm repair mode, testing multiple firearms in an indoor range. Exposure potential, yes I have plenty of that. After seeing the results of 4 specific tests in the past 8 years, and hearing the doctors tell me that my lead levels are so low that they are completely insignificant, I really start to believe that good luck and reasonable precautions are on my side.

[GARD72977]

I work for a bullet manufactur. I collect bullets, loaded rounds, hand load bullets, shoot actual guns and universal actions. I'm not a person that is overall concerned about lead. I cast and shoot a lot at home. My levels are good. The biggest thing I do is not touch my face when dealing with lead. Keep in mind most primers have lead so when you shoot a few hundred rounds with a pistol there is some lead airborn and maybe on your hands.

I'm around it a lot and with half decent safety practices my levels stay low.

[squidtamer]

What I found interesting is that they had lead on their hands after washing them. Maybe I should start wearing gloves. I have high blood pressure and am wondering if this is contributing. I think I will get tested.

Yeah that was what I got too:
"All employees had lead on their hands after washing them."

_All_ of them. Not just some. So... much better **** job after casting?
reminds me of college 40 years ago and a guy in the can screaming "3 times!" after only washing his hands twice after cutting up some kind of stupidly Hot peppers and then touching himself somewhere...

Dedicated clothing came up as well. I hadn't really thought much about that one. Maybe I should keep casting clothes seperate for washing like we do Barn Clothes?

One of my not-so local ranges started putting out "heavy metal wipes" for folks to use. I'll have to take a closer look at them when I get out there next.

[RED BEAR]

used to handle lead every day at work. used a large ball of lead to tap down parts or to tap them to true them up in lathe .

[Leadmad]

Greg I agree with you 100%, my levels are down now after being high for several years up to .8 now 5.7 and will take many more years to come down further, Im very careful with collecting range scrap, smelting , casting and clean up after shooting, take the time to cover up and clean up, shooting cast bullets a lot should not affect you adversely if your careful, when My levels first got high the doctor by law had to inform the public health office, they contacted me and we discussed ways to reduce my exposure, one thing the nice lady said to me was that people living in urban high density areas during the 1970`s and early 80`s had higher levels on average than mine due to lead in fuel !

[longbow]

I didn't read the article but will respond anyway. I have spent most of my working career in and around the largest lead/zinc smelter complex in the world in Trail B.C. The lead refinery where I have spent most of my time produces 90,000 tons of lead/year. In the plant there are seven 235 ton pots of molten lead all the time and a couple of smaller pots as well. There are some hazardous areas where you have to wear a respirator full time but mostly people only put respirators on if there is visible fume or dust in the air in the rest of the plant. I certainly only put my respirator on where required and if there is visible fume or dust. I have never been leaded.

Yes, some people do get leaded but most if not all are not practicing proper hygiene.

Long ago smoking was allowed in the plant and that was a primary cause of getting leaded because you get lead on your fingers then onto the cigarette then you inhale it. Eating in the plant or without washing hands is just as bad. After smoking was banned in the plant people still snuck into corners and smoked. Guess who got leaded most?

Lead is not absorbed through skin it is inhaled or ingested.

Basically for anyone working in high lead areas if they follow basic hygiene standards and wear a respirator where required they will not get leaded. I am in engineering so do not spend many full days in the plant though I am often in the plant for part of every day. There are operators who work 4 and 4 twelve hour shifts for years in that plant who do not get leaded.

So, if you are a bullet caster who is getting leaded you are not casting in a safe manner, plain and simple. Don't smoke, don't eat and make sure you are not breathing fume or dust when you dross and you will not get leaded. Oh and wash your hands before grabbing a sandwich or a piece of pizza! This applies to casting as well as handling your boolits after casting. Don't go playing with those pretty boolits then go grab that sandwich or piece of pizza without washing your hands!

Longbow

[fatelk]

Thank you for posting that, Longbow. In the past I don't think I was terribly careful with lead exposure. In recent years, since having kids, I've become a lot more careful. I got a vent hood and a gallon of special lead soap for washing after handling it.